This comment is remarkable in its lack of nuance. There's a huge spectrum of, let's call it, aggressive speech, ranging from trying to organize against an oppressive figure or class, to just punching down against people and groups who have either done nothing to the author of that speech which warrants an aggressive response, or where the target of that speech is already a victim.
My opinion is that free-speech absolutism is a policy position that causes much more harm than good, and which erodes social cohesion. There should be perpetual debate about where we as a society accept where the line is between speech which is allowed and that which is disallowed.
And to wit, on the tea party analogy: how's that working for the US now?
I dislike harassing, threats, hate speech and everything wrong that people yell to other people.
But I dislike even more that we decide that the solution to it is to pass laws prohibiting speech, and even more that the ones in charge of passing those laws are very incentivised to prohibiting criticism to themselves or their policies or their ideologies.
Why is speech a specific, precise red line? Yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre (and I'm aware that the case which coined this phrase was completely stupid, but the phrase itself stands) should probably not be legal, even though it is speech.
Why not? If shouting “fire” causes no harm, what’s the issue? And if it causes harm, isn’t that adequately served by civil lawsuits? Not everything on earth needs to be a criminal matter.
He's clearly quoting the Graham Linehan case where a group of police officers arrested him for his tweets that did include the only-two-gender thing. However, as you suspected, that's not all he said. Linehan suggested in another tweet that people should punch transwomen in the face if they refuse to leave the female bathroom.
> Considering they arrest people for saying "there are only two genders"
Can we please stop using a country you clearly have limited understanding of, as a prop in your morality play for your own activism?
Bear in mind that these "takes" are often sensationalised with useful context removed in order to better sell the message to yank markets.
If you're gonna chat shit about my nation, please afford it some level of respect in doing some research of conflicting views instead of parroting whatever twaddle the demagogue du jour is bleating.
I can't help it if facts about your country offend you. Maybe if you cry some more, you'll feel better. What I said is no secret, there are thousands of videos of police in the UK arresting people for saying the most trivial benign things. Perhaps that is what you should have issue with, not the people who mention it in passing.
> please afford it some level of respect in doing some research of conflicting views
There are no "conflicting views" to research. You're just upset that reality doesn't align with your dogma.
250 years ago some people made some bad posts about throwing some tea into the harbor. Calling for revolution isn't a bad post.
This comment is remarkable in its lack of nuance. There's a huge spectrum of, let's call it, aggressive speech, ranging from trying to organize against an oppressive figure or class, to just punching down against people and groups who have either done nothing to the author of that speech which warrants an aggressive response, or where the target of that speech is already a victim.
My opinion is that free-speech absolutism is a policy position that causes much more harm than good, and which erodes social cohesion. There should be perpetual debate about where we as a society accept where the line is between speech which is allowed and that which is disallowed.
And to wit, on the tea party analogy: how's that working for the US now?
Big fucking difference between saying you want to throw some tea into a harbor vs inciting that hotels containing asylum seekers should be burnt down.
That's charitable to say that nobody was saying anything except for "let's drown that tea".
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I mean, in terms of property damage, the Boston Tea Party was a pretty big deal. Probably in arson territory in today's dollars.
I'd argue that nothing is "inarguable"
And I'd argue that human dignity shall be inviolable
Define dignity
If 27/30 meet the bar for "bad" is that an acceptable level of policing speech? 19/30?
I dislike harassing, threats, hate speech and everything wrong that people yell to other people.
But I dislike even more that we decide that the solution to it is to pass laws prohibiting speech, and even more that the ones in charge of passing those laws are very incentivised to prohibiting criticism to themselves or their policies or their ideologies.
Why is speech a specific, precise red line? Yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre (and I'm aware that the case which coined this phrase was completely stupid, but the phrase itself stands) should probably not be legal, even though it is speech.
Why not? If shouting “fire” causes no harm, what’s the issue? And if it causes harm, isn’t that adequately served by civil lawsuits? Not everything on earth needs to be a criminal matter.
The chronically online anti-uk folks like to turn a blind eye to anything that’s justifiable for matter of principal.
It’s why the US has such a problem with gun control and laws.
I could argue everyone should have guns, and it’s just bad people, right?
Right. Switzerland has 100x guns per capita than UK and 2x less intentional homicides than UK.
Why are we comparing Switzerland? Do you want to try again with the United States?
Let me give it a go; Switzerland has higher gun homicides than the UK.
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> Considering they arrest people for saying "there are only two genders"
Citation please.
(EDIT: Citation of an arrest just for saying that, not an arrest for incitement.)
He's clearly quoting the Graham Linehan case where a group of police officers arrested him for his tweets that did include the only-two-gender thing. However, as you suspected, that's not all he said. Linehan suggested in another tweet that people should punch transwomen in the face if they refuse to leave the female bathroom.
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> Considering they arrest people for saying "there are only two genders"
Can we please stop using a country you clearly have limited understanding of, as a prop in your morality play for your own activism?
Bear in mind that these "takes" are often sensationalised with useful context removed in order to better sell the message to yank markets.
If you're gonna chat shit about my nation, please afford it some level of respect in doing some research of conflicting views instead of parroting whatever twaddle the demagogue du jour is bleating.
I can't help it if facts about your country offend you. Maybe if you cry some more, you'll feel better. What I said is no secret, there are thousands of videos of police in the UK arresting people for saying the most trivial benign things. Perhaps that is what you should have issue with, not the people who mention it in passing.
> please afford it some level of respect in doing some research of conflicting views
There are no "conflicting views" to research. You're just upset that reality doesn't align with your dogma.
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On TERF island, I seriously doubt that.
I don't know, but the UK has criminalized expressions of support for Palestine Action.
They're dragging grannies off to prison just for holding up signs, and literally accusing them of supporting terrorism.
Well they proscribed PA, and showing support for a proscribed organisation _is_ a crime.
But should that be possible?
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