Comment by idiotsecant
1 day ago
In my area of the country there is one very simple modification manufacturers could make to ensure their vehicles are wildly more useful: add diesel heaters. Heat the batteries and the people during the winters rather than using onboard power to do it. It would sip diesel and contribute hugely to utility. I am in the process of building my own because nobody makes one
Why? A lot of EVs these days comes with a heatpump so heating doesn’t use that much power. I live in a cold country where 98% of new cars are EVs and I have never heard anyone asking for something like this. A quick search on popular EV forums shows a few threads from 2010-2014. That’s it. I know webasto has a product like this, but there’s practically zero cars on the road with it installed.
Heat pumps are mostly useless when it is minus -20 C. Diesel heater is the most practical solution. Sodium or LMFP batteries will help, but even with them the range reduction in winter due to the need for heating and increased drag from cold air is just too great.
> Heat pumps are mostly useless when it is minus -20 C.
Two-thirds of households in Norway are heated by heat-pump, so I don't think that can be true.
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diesel fuel itself needs to be heated at -20 C and below. I used to have a diesel car which would start itself up periodically when its fuel temp was getting close to -20 C, just to warm up the tank & pipes.
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Ok i get that some people really do need to deal with extreme temperatures regularly, but it totally misses the point when discussing a mass market car like the Corolla. It’s like asking business casual footware to be equipped with crampons for when you need to walk up a glacier.
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if you get into standstill traffic in the winter, it's actually life-threatening not to have alternative power source that can warm up the passengers (and the battery). One interstate road I'm driving sometimes, has many abandoned Teslas sitting on the side of the road after a sleepless night of staying in traffic during some snow blizzard...
No different than gas vehicles running out of fuel.
Do the math and let's say theres even 50 percent charge of a 60kwh pack...and you just blast a 1000w of heat constantly....thats still 30 hours of heating at 1kw of power lol.
Gas vehicles burn .25 to .5 gallons per hour so uh...that 16 gallon tank completely topped off is 'only' 32hours. Half the tank and down to 16hours.
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Every ev already has this today, 10 years ago it was in some leading cars like teslas. Only the leaf and a few others didn't have battery heating and cooling, and the fact that so many think those problems are in all evs set back the whole market.
A 10 year old tesla can heat and cool the battery before leaving, you could set a daily time to heat it up, or just turn it on just before you go manually if you wished.
This feels like something that would be offered by US/Canada manufacturers as a niche option, and nowhere else. Norway seems to be coping just fine without it.
(China also has regions of extreme cold; it would be interesting to see how regional EV adoption/adaptation has happened there)
In high school, one of my friends had a VW (air cooled) with a torpedo heater installed that would heat the interior to 30 degrees C in a matter of minutes - no matter how cold it was outside.
Likewise, in university, my friend's army jeep had a gas heater that would melt snow off his canvas roof.
People are consuming 30% of their battery power to heat the vehicle and batteries - and that's with reduced battery range. It only makes sense to add a container for gas/diesel and a heater - really can't understand why manufacturers are against instant and very low cost heat as an option to protect range and increase safety (in case you're stranded in the winter with a depleted battery).
Best of luck adapting one to your vehicle.
It spends some battery, but my electric car heats much faster than my diesel cars ever did. Why on earth would I use a diesel heater that’s more expensive to run and slower?
Certainly it uses some battery energy to do that battery heating. If you have a plugin at. home, even a 120v one, you can just use your home power.
just a caveat - some EVs, like Hyundai models, require using an app and the internet to enable this. If you use only the key fob, the heat pump compressor does not run.
Manufacturers don't do torpedo heaters outside of campers because they are a PITA. You need to find a place for the fuel tank and the fuel receptacle, for the heater itself, and you need an exhaust that requires clearance. And for a heater integrated into regular airflow routing it gets even more complex.
Indeed - both heaters (torpedo and whatever the jeep had) blew hot air "around" and were not integrated into the vents. I think the jeep unit just drew from the gas can - not sure about the torpedo heater, but they were very economical for the amount of heat they produced.
-40 (air temperature - not windchill) is nothing to mess with. The instant heat from a battery pack is great if you're always close to charging, but there's absolutely no way I'd head into the wilderness in winter with just an EV.
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Volvo's first electric car had this, I always thought it was neat (I rented one a few times through a car sharing service that had them) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_C30#C30_DRIVe_Electric_(...
EVs should always be plugged in. There is electricity wherever it is parked. Heating or cooling can be done using grid, instead of onboard battery.
EVs play a role in the energy ecosystem. They absorb excess production during the day and can supply power back to the grid by participating in a virtual power plant (VPP).
Webasto. They make a really decent little unit, easy to integrate too.
I have been waiting for a manufacturer to finally embrace this tech. I know electric buses already do it. I think people just have a mental barrier about this because EVs are supposed to be eco friendly.
I really hope you succeed
You mean wood pellet heaters. Then you can pretend it is CO2 neutral.