Comment by gambiting
16 hours ago
I mean, I feel like even if petrol wasn't as expensive as it is, the sales would be booming anyway, maybe a sliver slower - for the simple reason that affordable EVs are now here and they are pretty damn good now. After years and years of lamenting "where are the EVs for your average Joe Smith" - they are now here. Funnily enough, they aren't made by Volkswagen or Peugeot, but they are here anyway. And Europe's cheapest new car - Dacia Spring - is an EV.
You're delusional if you think an EV is affordable for an average person. The average person barely makes enough to cover rent, food, bills and save a little money - 15-30k EUR for an entry level EV is out of question. Meanwhile most people can afford to get a late 90s/early 00s used car that will actually get the job done.
In the uk, there can be good deals on used EVs. My Hyundai Kona EV (64kWh) (2022 plate) was £18K for a 18 month old car with 9K miles on the clock and lots of options. It does about 280 miles on a charge and I do have the advantage of cheap home charging (8p per kWh) so it’s under a £5 for my weekly commute.
A big step up from my old Ford fiesta, just look for the deals
Its bizarre the hate your getting for this comment.
You can get a used Hyundai Kona EV from Hyundai for under £15k.
https://used.hyundai.co.uk/en/used-car-search/hyundai/kona/k...
Even going off your £18k price, a car loan search shows it would be under £200 per month. Not sure where they pulled £600 from.
But filling up my wife's compact Peugeot 208 (I think?) was £75 over the weekend. Filling up twice is almost the same monthly cost as buying a larger electric SUV.
It definitely seems like it would be worth investigating your options.
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According to this data an average Brit would be able to save about 600 GBP monthly if they never had any extra expenses outside of rent and living costs. I don't think even a "good deal" 18k vehicle is affordable for that person.
https://movingtotheuk.co.uk/cost-of-living-in-the-uk/average...
https://movingtotheuk.co.uk/cost-of-living-in-the-uk
https://www.livingcost.net/united-kingdom
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>> 15-30k EUR for an entry level EV is out of question
> My Hyundai Kona EV (64kWh) (2022 plate) was £18K
Completely fkn tone deaf.
£18k is something like 60% of the median income in the UK after taxes. And that doesn’t even include the other associated costs. Average people would view that as a major expense.
Many people don’t have the elasticity in their month-to-month expenses that is assumed here.
Average fleet age in EU looks to be around 13 years so when you say "most people", you're likely off by 10-15 years in terms of second hand purchases. Greece might be the only EU country that gets close to what you said. I get the point about affordability but it's good to base discussion on facts.
Also, EVs have been around for quite a few years now so it is no longer necessary to buy them new.
https://www.acea.auto/publication/report-vehicles-on-europea...
Buying an EV outside of the factory warranty period is not an experiment I’d be interested in participating.
What do you do when, say, the insulation on the motor’s windings disintegrates over night on a whole production run of thousands of cars.
Or the batteries turn out to a fail at some yet to be revealed number of charge cycles.
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At least in Europe people still buy cheap new cars.
In the US the people who can afford new cars generally want massive SUV's. Meanwhile a lot of the people buying used cars often would prefer a bare bones small vehicle with fewer years and lower miles than something fancier or larger but with more miles. But of course those aren't available since nobody buys those things new. Which leads to the ridiculous outcome that a lightly used Honda Civic is basically the same price as a new one.
I mean, I'll be honest - I feel like you knew exactly what I meant but then twisted it to make a point you wanted to make.
Yes, obviously your average person buys a second hand car and new car prices(all of them, not just EVs) are out of reach.
But the article is about sales(as in - new car sales) - and your average Joe Smith buying a new car is increasingly likely to buy an EV because among other new cars, EVs have actually became affordable.
Im on the verge of switching from PHEV to full EV. I just need a reasonably affordable EV with 450+ mile of range.
Im curious - why do you need 450 miles of range?
My tesla goes 3 hours at 80mph. I can get to any charger I need. There are considerably more than I ever imagined.
In the US that would be many parts of the Mountain West, for example, though it is not the only region where it applies.
Unpredictable closures of highways can happen in the middle of nowhere after you’ve already been driving for 3 hours. I’ve had unplanned detours of up to 150 miles more than once. It is more common than people expect.
There are stretches of highway where it is 100+ miles between gas stations, never mind chargers, so it becomes a range risk even for ICE cars. I’m not the OP but when I’m driving in that part of North America I try to keep my range above 200 miles for this reason. It has saved me from being stranded more than once.
Alternatively, a backup plan for people with experience in those areas is to use ranch and forestry trails to route around the highway closures if feasible. This requires a vehicle suitable for that terrain. Few if any EVs are.
That said, most Americans rarely do long-haul driving in the backwaters of the American West. But if you do it enough, high ground clearance and reliable 400+ miles range in all weather conditions is a safety requirement.
The only reason I don’t have an EV is that most of my driving miles are like that. I don’t drive in the city where I live. No EV currently made credibly delivers that kind of performance but a lot of cheap ICE vehicles do.
Eventually EVs will get there but they aren’t there today.
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The only EVs that offer this range are going to be very expensive. They'll either be from pricey companies like Lucid or they'll be extended-range vehicles from other makers. Are there any under $50k? Most are probably over $60k, and some will be double that.
The Chevy Silverado EV will go 492 miles.
With a 30 year mortgage the $56K base model payments could be doable.
I'm actually impressed that GM managed to get the base model price down, If I recall they originally launched closer to 75K.
Although, I don't think the base model will do 492 miles, I'm guessing it's more like 250-300.
I'm still not sure whether GM just completely mis-managed the thing (which GM is known to do) or not. I say that because it is full-size-ish, but that creates the problem of it being a heavier unibody, and when we talk about EVs, 'weight of base vehicle and the batteries to move it' can become a Delta-V-ish problem.
As a sort of example, I'll point to the Cybertruck; it's honestly probably even more 'brick-ish' aerodynamically than the Silverado EV, but it weighs 1000 pounds less (or so) and thus gets 20-60 miles more range than the Silverado EV base despite the battery being not much larger as far as capacity.
Possibly also worth noting though, that Delta-V-ish problem means the Silverado EV in some configurations has a curb weight high enough it can't go on some residential streets.
IDK. GM got kinda-smart with how they handled EVification of their CUVs (i.e. start with midsize, move down, be aggressive on pricing) but the Silverado EV still strikes me as classic GM WTFery
Why do you need that much range and what are you looking at that is anywhere near that?
It's better for the body to keep driving sessions to 3-4 hours max before you get up walk around and charge a bit. 330 mile range is more than enough. If you only use 60% of the battery to maximize its lifespan you can drive for 3.5 hours roughly before you deplete a battery from 80% -> 20%.
There are a number of plausible rural drives in north america which do not have fast chargers for over 400 miles. EV infrastructure in the US is primarily concentrated on high-volume highways.
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> is more than enough
This attitude of dictating others' car needs for them is one of the biggest hindrances to EV adoption and is also why rolling back CAFE regulations is going to be more popular than you think it is.
The general public doesn't like being told what to do.
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I don’t think people understand how convenient it is to be able to go 1000+ KM without thinking about filling up or charging, even if it isn’t in one trip.
I could do it in a 2002 Jetta. Why can’t I do it in a vehicle 25 years newer?
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