Reporting on these drugs is so bad. Most of the benefits AND downsides they keep reporting are the same for any major rapid weight loss. Be it hair shedding or sleep apnea resolving. They keep acting like these are novel drug specific side effects rather than weight-loss related side effects.
At this point it might legit be impossible for a side effect to be discovered that outweighs the immense health benefits of losing weight.
It feels like people want there to be some horrible side effect to these drugs. Idk if it’s some moral objection to weight loss without discipline, or just general mistrust of big pharma.
Recently I've talked to someone who said she is worried about those drugs as they will create 2 tier society because only people with money will get thin. This also increases already bad fat phobia in our society according to her.
She has a PhD in biotechnology and works in a lab. She is also quite thin (always was).
It's crab mentality disguised as moral position. It's especially obvious when the same people advocate for free access to drugs, alcohol or gambling. You should have freedom you do anything as long as it doesn't improve your life or move you to in social hierarchy.
It's absolutely the moral thing. Even on HN there are an endless number of people who treat the use of GLP-1s as a failure that must be publicly shamed.
> It feels like people want there to be some horrible side effect to these drugs.
Being able to lose weight is, in many minds, associated with self-discipline. A route to the same goal that elides self-discipline is consequently viewed as a cheat, a shortcut.
It's a product if the cultural pervasiveness of the Protestant work ethic and its relation to the health and wellness domains. That fine, in my opinion, if one is Protestant, but why carry the baggage for someone else's religion if you're not one, ya know?
“Millions of people live longer healthier lives by reducing cardiovascular and diabetes risk, but their fingernails might be more brittle!” Doesn’t hit the same does it?
Yes, it does look superficially like the kind of thing that happens with nutrient deficiencies. Many of these people eat extremely unhealthily and continue to, but now in significantly lower quantities.
if you're losing it as a weight loss drug and that's a side effect of the rapid weight loss that otherwise wouldn't occur it's a side effect of the drug in any practical sense, or are you trying to establish the 'guns don't kill people' for pharmaceuticals?
It's a side effect of the treatment regimen that many people in all likelihood aren't even aware of so it's good to report it like this
Idk, i think its important to distinguish between side effects that would also happen via diet and exercise vs side effects that do not happen when losing weight via other means.
If you shoot someone in the face, generally speaking that person will die. Not everyone who takes GLP-1s actually lose weight. A decent fraction of people are non-responders. Those people also tend to not lose their hair or have their sleep apnea and knee problems go away. Your analogy isn't as clever as you might think.
GLP1s do seem like incredible science but I will admit to being a little floored when I saw how far they spread and how quickly. I really hope small numbers of hair loss and nail issues are the biggest issues we face.
Very large studies already exist. They’re safe. Fearmongering about side effects is actually harmful at this point, because skepticism could keep someone from getting safe, effective treatment.
Not only that but the weight loss is often a side effect of fixing other issues, for me I’ve been taking a low dose for autoimmune related ME/CFS for about 4 years now.
Could these be signs of malnutrition? I see a lot of people who take them but don't also adjust their diet or exercise to make sure they're getting solid nutrition and start looking sickly.
That was actually my thought. When I started controlling my diet a lot more I was surprised about the (positive) change in my nails. I had heard it was a thing but had never experienced it before.
I feel like waaay more than people think depends on nutrition. You literally are what you eat. Like for example, sometimes my skin oils get messed up somehow to where everything starts sticking to it, and then I eat some food and it's fixed. I have no idea what this is or how to make it stop happening between every meal, but it doesn't seem related to whether I touch the food while eating.
i've visited many subreddits, telegram and discord groups i see this common pattern:
People import it from China from suppliers and do not know how to properly dose it. Many are using it in knee jerk fashion with no proper dosing protocol.
Why they do it? it's because it's cheaper this way and they have to answer or explaining the use to no one.
Others have this strange idea, "if i am using GLPs, exercise and dieting is no longer needed".
But there's lots of lunches with such a huge benefit and such a minimal cost, that it's virtually a free lunch, that's most of medicine, you just take penicilin and it kills lots of infections, wash your hands and avoid diarrhea, etc...
In an economic sense the cost that you'd associate with those is research, which you would have already paid when choosing to use a drug with a net positive effect.
Reporting on these drugs is so bad. Most of the benefits AND downsides they keep reporting are the same for any major rapid weight loss. Be it hair shedding or sleep apnea resolving. They keep acting like these are novel drug specific side effects rather than weight-loss related side effects.
At this point it might legit be impossible for a side effect to be discovered that outweighs the immense health benefits of losing weight.
It feels like people want there to be some horrible side effect to these drugs. Idk if it’s some moral objection to weight loss without discipline, or just general mistrust of big pharma.
Recently I've talked to someone who said she is worried about those drugs as they will create 2 tier society because only people with money will get thin. This also increases already bad fat phobia in our society according to her.
She has a PhD in biotechnology and works in a lab. She is also quite thin (always was).
It's crab mentality disguised as moral position. It's especially obvious when the same people advocate for free access to drugs, alcohol or gambling. You should have freedom you do anything as long as it doesn't improve your life or move you to in social hierarchy.
It's absolutely the moral thing. Even on HN there are an endless number of people who treat the use of GLP-1s as a failure that must be publicly shamed.
> It feels like people want there to be some horrible side effect to these drugs.
Being able to lose weight is, in many minds, associated with self-discipline. A route to the same goal that elides self-discipline is consequently viewed as a cheat, a shortcut.
It's a product if the cultural pervasiveness of the Protestant work ethic and its relation to the health and wellness domains. That fine, in my opinion, if one is Protestant, but why carry the baggage for someone else's religion if you're not one, ya know?
2 replies →
“Millions of people live longer healthier lives by reducing cardiovascular and diabetes risk, but their fingernails might be more brittle!” Doesn’t hit the same does it?
Yes, it does look superficially like the kind of thing that happens with nutrient deficiencies. Many of these people eat extremely unhealthily and continue to, but now in significantly lower quantities.
I know with the famous 382 day fast guy they fed him vitamins, but I don't believe they do that with GLP-1/Ozempic prescriptions? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast
I lost 170 lbs natty and my hair and nails only got better. If your generative follices are dying off you are not losing weight healthily.
if you're losing it as a weight loss drug and that's a side effect of the rapid weight loss that otherwise wouldn't occur it's a side effect of the drug in any practical sense, or are you trying to establish the 'guns don't kill people' for pharmaceuticals?
It's a side effect of the treatment regimen that many people in all likelihood aren't even aware of so it's good to report it like this
Idk, i think its important to distinguish between side effects that would also happen via diet and exercise vs side effects that do not happen when losing weight via other means.
If you shoot someone in the face, generally speaking that person will die. Not everyone who takes GLP-1s actually lose weight. A decent fraction of people are non-responders. Those people also tend to not lose their hair or have their sleep apnea and knee problems go away. Your analogy isn't as clever as you might think.
2 replies →
If you’re drunk and bump your head into a lantern, would you say that haematomas are a side-effect of alcohol consumption?
1 reply →
GLP1s do seem like incredible science but I will admit to being a little floored when I saw how far they spread and how quickly. I really hope small numbers of hair loss and nail issues are the biggest issues we face.
Very large studies already exist. They’re safe. Fearmongering about side effects is actually harmful at this point, because skepticism could keep someone from getting safe, effective treatment.
Not only that but the weight loss is often a side effect of fixing other issues, for me I’ve been taking a low dose for autoimmune related ME/CFS for about 4 years now.
I read the article, but my understanding that rapid weight loss is what is causing the alopecia. This is a pretty well understood process
Could these be signs of malnutrition? I see a lot of people who take them but don't also adjust their diet or exercise to make sure they're getting solid nutrition and start looking sickly.
That was actually my thought. When I started controlling my diet a lot more I was surprised about the (positive) change in my nails. I had heard it was a thing but had never experienced it before.
I feel like waaay more than people think depends on nutrition. You literally are what you eat. Like for example, sometimes my skin oils get messed up somehow to where everything starts sticking to it, and then I eat some food and it's fixed. I have no idea what this is or how to make it stop happening between every meal, but it doesn't seem related to whether I touch the food while eating.
i've visited many subreddits, telegram and discord groups i see this common pattern:
People import it from China from suppliers and do not know how to properly dose it. Many are using it in knee jerk fashion with no proper dosing protocol.
Why they do it? it's because it's cheaper this way and they have to answer or explaining the use to no one.
Others have this strange idea, "if i am using GLPs, exercise and dieting is no longer needed".
When long term experienced GLP users say, you still need a dieting and workout protocol, https://www.reddit.com/r/tirzepatidecompound/comments/1omfgx...
GLPs are very useful but they are not needed by vast majority of people who use it.
And key questions
1. Do you really need GLPs? how did you figure this out?
2. How much do you need?
3. What's your dieting and workout strategy?
Very few GLP users actually run through these questions.
People should stop pushing it as a “miracle” and instead see it as a “tool” used in specific cases.
Those people often also fail to ask "is this stuff even made right?!"
I'm bald already so woohooooo
Well, thank goodness I was too lazy to deal with my insurance provider and stuck with dieting and exercise.
TANSTAAFL, my dudes. TANSTAAFL.
But there's lots of lunches with such a huge benefit and such a minimal cost, that it's virtually a free lunch, that's most of medicine, you just take penicilin and it kills lots of infections, wash your hands and avoid diarrhea, etc...
In an economic sense the cost that you'd associate with those is research, which you would have already paid when choosing to use a drug with a net positive effect.