Comment by 2OEH8eoCRo0
6 hours ago
It's weird that so many Germans are sympathetic to Russia given that they were subjugated by Russia for decades.
Can someone please explain what's going on here? What am I culturally missing?
6 hours ago
It's weird that so many Germans are sympathetic to Russia given that they were subjugated by Russia for decades.
Can someone please explain what's going on here? What am I culturally missing?
We don’t know what country he was spying for, but we do know it’s not Russia. From the very short article: > The case does not involve Russia, according to information obtained by Sueddeutsche Zeitung.
Even "allies" spy on each other. The US has been caught, several times, spying on allies, and Israel spies on everyone.
And that's probably why Israel is allied with everyone. They have such good spies, they have endless blackmail material for politicians.
For instance, it's suspected that Epstein worked for Israel to acquire blackmail material. We know Epstein recorded everything that happened on that island, and not secretly.
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It's in the 3rd paragraph:
The Spiegel news magazine reported late on Tuesday that investigators were pursuing a possible connection to Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan and Russia signed a Declaration on Allied Interaction on 22 February 2022 when Russia escalated.
Ah, sorry I was thinking of 2023.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyeedd6kzdko
> A German military officer has been sentenced to three-and-a-half years in prison for spying for Russia.
The Eastern Germans remember the old days fondly (you know, before "the West destroyed their industry" and whatnot) while the Western Germany had a national policy of "not provoking Russia" and "accepting its sphere of influence" for basically all of it's existence.
From personal experience I would also say that Germans and Russians are alike in quite a few ways - both are pretty chauvinist societies looking down at other nations, and both have very low empathy. Obviously, there are big cultural differences as well.
From what I see here it’s a mixture of anti-Americanism, „Ostslgie“ (the longing for the good old times of the DDR, a feeling often inherited from parents) and a crap ton of Russian propaganda that floods social media.
Combine this with a step economic decline and voila you got the perfect conditions for autocratic sympathies
Some part of the population was subject to 60 years of continuous propaganda. That's three generations. You might say people should be able to see beyond that, but the ones influencing them were professionals too.
Similar to why there's a significant fraction of pro-mainland China people in Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Reasons include people who benefitted from the Soviet Union, often due to business and trade. Analogy would be Foxconn, a Taiwanese company which is dependent on manufacturing in China.
Nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses/rosy retrospection, Ostalgie in German.
Families that were ethnically from Russia, moved during the Soviet Union times and still have ties to Russia.
The former East Germany is way more pro-Russian than the former West Germany, showing the effects of these factors.
I would not say it's many but certainly there are some. I found it surprising that in recent sabotage or spy cases in Germany there were often Ukrainian or Latvian accomplices to the Russians. But then again it's obvious that not all Ukrainians have the same opinion about the war.
Are you sympathetic to MBS when you buy oil from Saudi Arabia?
I don't buy oil from Saudi Arabia. I buy gasoline from a local gas station. It doesn't say where the oil came from.
There are obviously people throughout the western world (including East Germany) who are sympathizers of Russia well beyond just buying energy from them. Pretty sure GP is referring to those people.
The are practically no sympathizers in the sense that they want to revive the Warsaw Pact. There are:
1) People who want to trade.
2) People who appreciate Russia's undeniable cultural achievements.
3) Organizations like the LaRouche Schiller institute that are most likely CIA fronts, double agents or both.
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> It's weird that so many Germans are sympathetic to Russia given that they were subjugated by Russia for decades.
Do you think that Germany might have done something right before this "subjugation"?
Maybe 25-40 million things?
If the Holocaust were that "successful", Israel wouldn't exist today. Perhaps you're confusing with Mao.
you do know that jews were not the only targets of the nazi killing machine?
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> Can someone please explain what's going on here?
Putin got'em addicted to cheap Russian gas and paid up anti nuclear NGOs who also got cash from big oil.
Also Berlin still has some Russian minority since the GDR. That includes anti Putin Russian diaspora or people that just needed a break from paranoia and brespredel.
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> It’s not sympathy so much with Russia, more of a complete distrust of US-led causes for war.
The ex-DDR folk has nothing to do with this. They literally want a tzar and claim the life was better in DDR (translate: got stuff for free, didn't have to do much).
Europe, and indeed Germany, is so much more than ex-DDR.
There are plenty of ex-DDR folks who think we should just get on with the war and start annihilating everyone from Dresden to Kamchatka, too.
Alas, the challenge for those who want peace is to get those who see only war to sit down and shut up for a while. Germans are actually good at that when they want to be.
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Do they want to let Russia keep Ukrainian land, kids, etc?
They want to see a return of peaceful relations between Europe and Russia, and unfortunately that would in fact mean addressing the injustices and crimes of the Ukrainian conflict - this cannot occur, while those crimes are still being committed.
But many Europeans don’t believe that Russia is going to be defeated, nor that the Donetsk->Crimea corridor is worth igniting the rest of Europe over. The most common refrain I hear, is that portion of Ukraine should have independence and neutrality, like Austria. How this is to be attained, of course nobody knows, but it is very definitely a common refrain.
What a load of lies.
Between the end of the Cold War and the start of the war in Ukraine, there was no peace in Afghanistan, in the Caucasus, in Syria, in Georgia, and in Crimea.
Russian misinformation and funding of far-right parties had never stopped. Every country in Russia's vicinity knew that it was coming for them. In the West relations were peaceful indeed, because all these wars were with faraway peoples.
If you're not a paid shill but genuinely believe what you're saying, you're what they call a useful idiot. This attempt at the apology of Russia, in this pretend calm tone, with emotional bits peppered throughout, is disgusting.
A lot of people who came to the West thanks to the peacefulness of Russia also want to go rebuild their countries 'Some day. Maybe.'
And lower down you say Ukraine should have some neutral autonomous territory. Maybe parts of Poland and of the Baltics and of Finland will also know the prosperity and peace that comes with 'neutrality'.
How dare you.
Yeah, the only problem is that you can't really establish a lasting peace with a government that is more interested in land grabbing, and turning its neighbors into vassal states.
If Europe gives in to Russia in Ukraine, anyone with basic understanding of history can see that they'll turn their attention towards Baltics, Moldova and maybe Finland and Poland. Putin doesn't want to return those "good years" between cold war and Ukraine conflict, he wants to return to the glory days of Cold War when Russia (Soviet Union) was a real superpower.
Over here in Finland, we would absolutely love to have peaceful relations with Russia, based on mutual respect and trade. But we're under no illusion about it being possible with current Russian administration.
On the other hand, if you think history is the only guide for humans to follow, Europe will self-implode before Russia gets there, anyway.
Fortunately, there are growing segments of European society who actually want to have a bright and prosperous future. This doesn’t happen with war - it happens by making sure your neighbors are well fed, too.
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> Over here in Finland, we would absolutely love to have peaceful relations with Russia, based on mutual respect and trade. But we're under no illusion about it being possible with current Russian administration.
Russian administration is the reflection of the nature of Russian people. Look at Russian history - it is very unlikely that different administration would behave differently.
Putin is not a blip, he is the trend.
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There's a certain subset of every population that just wants to be dominated. Some of these people don't have the courage to ask their romantic partner or a professional, so they try to realize their kink through political means.