Comment by fsiefken

8 hours ago

nat traversal more or less solved:

https://docs.iroh.computer/concepts/nat-traversal

https://www.iroh.computer/blog/what-is-derp

https://ark-builders.medium.com/the-deceptive-complexity-of-...

projects using iroh:

https://github.com/muhamadjawdatsalemalakoum/kith

https://delta.chat/

https://github.com/fishfolk/bones/

6 comments

fsiefken

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prominent660  7 hours ago

I'm pleased to see DAT survived in some way the niche rivalry with IPFS, but let the people at Iroh their website LLM endpoint is down, https://www.iroh.computer/blog/what-is-derp

> "The DERP Protocol in Iroh"

> "Explain the original DERP protocol by Tailscale, focusing on its functionality and limitations. Discuss how Iroh has adapted and enhanced the DERP protocol, emphasizing the use of DERP URLs instead of regions."

and so on for the rest of their FAQ page

PS: Is keet.io a reincarnation of Cabal chat (https://cabal.chat/)?

  • matheus23  6 hours ago

    There's no LLM endpoint :) These prompts were meant for humans to fill in :P (this post was from 2024)

    That said, this was an old blog post that never actually got finished, so we've taken it offline and replaced it with a redirect to our relay docs page.

  • schmoooo  6 hours ago

    no. cabal chat is different.

    ...but you can also checkout quibble as an alternative to keet that is open source.

    https://codeberg.org/LTC-GT/Quibble

    i think the most awaited thing that has been in the making for hlf a decade now is "datweb" so all the dat ecoaystem projects might potentially work in browsers as well and not just as standalone apps

soltanov  7 hours ago

Falling back to DERP relays means trusting and funding centralized relay boxes. That solves connectivity by conceding peer-to-peer. You end up with client-server architecture plus extra cryptographic tax.

  • davexunit  3 hours ago

    There's a distinction to be made between p2p as a network topology and p2p as a redistribution of power and agency. It's true that relays are an unsatisfying fallback to deal with the networks we have, but they still allow for meaningful p2p in sociopolitical terms. Relays that support the spirit of p2p need to be federated, stateless, and end-to-end encrypted.

schmoooo  6 hours ago

nat traversal decentralized/distributed holepunching is absolutely what dat has pioneered and is also industry leading and battle tested because it has plenty of apps with lots of users.

dat exists in rust and the more feature rich mature version is C & JS so you cqn build cross platform p2p apps using the web stack to make it as easy as possible for anyone to adopt