Comment by gspr

9 hours ago

Even if we were to figure out the economic side: if thinking becomes a hobby, we're fucked. Democracy won't be sustainable.

21 comments

gspr

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phainopepla2  9 hours ago

I believe we're already past that point, at least in the US. Only 44% of American adults had level 3 literacy (6th-grade level) or higher in 2023 [0], down from 48% in 2017. We are probably near 40% now.

These are not necessarily unintelligent people, but they haven't developed the skills necessary to critically analyze textual information. My opinion is that without those skills it is not possible to meaningfully engage in a democratic system.

[0] https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp

  • sarchertech  8 hours ago

    The survey in 2017 had a 56% response rate. The 2023 survey had a 27% response rate.

    Comparing those 2 datasets is meaningless. It’s just an exercise in how good the researchers are at guessing when trying to control for selection bias.

    There were also significant changes in the test and how the test was administered (from computer or paper to only tablets).

    Also if you look at the results some of them are too large to be readable. A 50% increase in people operating at or below level 1 (40% if you exclude non-native born). That would have to mean a drastic drop in 2017 such that something like 75% of kids graduating high school are doing so at or below level 1.

    Also level 3 has no direct grade equivalence. If it did it would probably be around 9th grade not 6th.

  • gspr  9 hours ago

    So what do we do?

    Not a rhetorical question. Outside of my family and self, and perhaps a livable planet, liberal democracy is the most important thing I can possibly imagine. I know I'm not alone. So what do we do?

    Edit: Replies seem to indicate that people think I meant for this to be about the US. It's not. I'm in a well-functioning European democracy, and my worry definitely applies here too.

    • AuthAuth  9 hours ago

      As an individual we need to make the case for liberal democracy. Its under heavy attack by two very authoritarian ideologies either side. Liberal Democracy needs to convince people its the right framework going forward once Liberals are back in power they need to demonstrate that they can actually solve the challenges people are facing. And it cant all be left up to politicians voters need to activate to provide energy.

      2 replies →

    • jurgenburgen  7 hours ago

      Blaming the voters for being uneducated is distracting from the fact that the neoliberal consensus is what the voters are rejecting. I’ve been listening to variations of “there is no alternative” as the explanation for austerity for over 2 decades now while the 1% grows fatter. The left needs to stop playing by the rules of the neoliberals and start painting a better future than cuts after cuts.

    • za_creature  9 hours ago

      Calm down.

      Unless the US plans to unconditionally surrender to China, one of two things will happen:

      1. it will start investing into education in an effort to compete by itself

      2. it will roll all of this shit back and reform ties with Europe in an attempt to play the numbers game

      5 replies →

mannanj  9 hours ago

Hasn't thinking already become a hobby for most people, and most delegate their thinking to others?

Think: those in authority figures, for church or politics. Or science or chemistry. And especially in their own health, which should always remain part art. A few nerds on the internet, like us in hacker news, are still remaining open to question and apply our hard thinking to tough problems. But most people: they've resigned and bought the belief they are not qualified to think about hard problems.

  • edukite  9 hours ago

    This sounded really like elitist thinking. I don't know what most of the people do but I know my wife is a caveman of we are speaking about technology but if we start taking about law then suddenly I'm half brained chimpanzee with banana in the nose trying figure out why I can't drink it

    Even my uncle who work as a carperter proved to me to know more about math and physics than I would ever thought physical labourer would know.