Comment by Stevvo

I did actually use an LLM to teach myself photoshop recently for a fantasy map building project. Mostly I'd just ask it things like "I have a mask with 50/50 gray and would like an elevation height map to be an embossed layer on it. Where do I find that in the menus?" those sorts of questions.

I finished the project out feeling pretty confident in my photoshop abilities. Then I did a similar project later and realized I had to open up the LLM again as there were still a ton of holes in my knowledge. After this second time though I'm feeling confident enough on my own that referring back to the LLM is increasingly less common, as it's just a waste of time if I already know what to do.

I don't think this is true. The LLM provides confidence that it won't be a tremendous waste of time to try something you don't already know how to do. But eventually it gets tedious to consult the LLM all the time so you stop doing so. That initial "couldn't hurt to try" boost is worth a lot.

The learning is at that level of abstraction, so yes taking away the abstraction prevents will stymy you.

Just like if you pressed a button to wipe out our main language stack at our job, yeah none of us would know how to do anything with assembly or machine code.

I recently spent a day coding by hand. I was able to build a project, about 200-300 lines in python. Took me half day. But I could still do it. LLM would have done this in less than half an hour.

After this I realized why I personally choose LLM to write code: it is simply more convenient.

As a parallel, once you learn how to drive you stop walking, as for the primary mode of transportation.

We are in the Matrix with the internet.

"Please download the ability to do X"

Just that there is still a big latency. Its smaller than finding the correct information on the web, but you can do so. Especially with MCP. The question is when this goes over into the physical world.

Watching Youtube videoas about anything that requires skill does the same.

I think it's like driving without navigation systems. Yes, you have to make an effort to do it, but then it's fine. You don't have to use LLMs every minute of the (work)day.

I have sat down and figured out how to program an Apple //e this year for fun. It is possible. It was quite instructive on how much has been added to the idea of what a computer is these days.

Take away all reference books/material/notes, from any engineer, in any field, and see how well they do.

Human memory is shite. Understanding, and knowing what you need to reference, is ludicrously more valuable than rote memorization.

> The problem is that if you take away the LLM, all of a sudden you can't do any of the things you "learned".

Even if that were true, LLMs aren't going away, so that isn't a problem.

> if you take away the LLM, all of a sudden you can't do any of the things you "learned"

What? That is absolutely not true. I've been using LLMs for language learning, math/physics, clarify home improvement best practices that I now regularly think about, etc. and that knowledge is not LLM-bound at all. Instead of acquiring from a regular textbook, I acquired it from a model.

My first project with it was in Jan 22, back when it was just sentence completion. Really hard to implement practically.

But in the past year the production boost is just insane. LLM assistance took away so many of the barriers that prevented me from executing on ideas.

I've also learned more than ever before, although it is admittedly getting harder to stay involved when the models are becoming more and more reliable.

What I have not figured out yet is why most developers around me do not share this effect. It's like it mostly works for a very specific subset of people, that do understand code, but it's not their main focus.

Just take a look at what is happening with the M-Wave FM1. Stating those devs would be lost without Ai won't stop the tide. It's not going to go away.

You can't remove LLMs. Once models are released as open weights, they cannot be removed. As long as the compute to run them exists, so will LLMs.

"LLM assistance is a huge dependence on something owned by few."

Open models are capable and owned by everyone who wants to.

> Remove LLM and 80 pct of people will have to jump to start.

Isn't the same true for every service and technology we start to rely on?

Remove GPS and people will have to figure out how to read maps again.

Remove search engines and people will have to figure out how domains work.

Remove Wikipedia and we have to go back to the library to check encyclopedias.

But thinking requires mental manipulation of the things that are in your memory. The less structures you have there, the lesser the ability to reason.

DynamoDb has a max item size of 400kb.

That was months ago. It often surfaces pertinent info which is memorable cos it relates to whatchu doin.

I mean, it depends.

Like, unless it is somehow relevant to your daily life knowing the capital of Nova Scotia is literally useless. Same with all the history I learned in middle school. Remembering takes repetition, and so retaining the information I learn needs a habit of review and processing. And a lack thereof (alongside the brain seeking to offload information, bc information is expensive) is why you forgot the capital city.

I find I remember things best when I jot them down, and personally I’ve been needing to journal more, writing down my ideas and what I learn when discussing my ideas with LLMs, though I’ve also noticed that using the LLM as a rubber duck has actively helped my memory due to more review and processing and needing to “teach” my ideas to the model.

"I don’t think most people use these tools to learn."

I often hear the phrase "use chatgpt" when common people don't know something but want to understand something new. So they use it for learning, even though most likely never think of checking the sources ever.

I push back on this idea hard. There's some things I consider not worth my time since an LLM will always be available to do it for me. But a whole lot of things you can learn far better with a LLM than almost anywhere else.

Been learning Linux, how to build a homelab, and quite a few other related topics since about chatgpt 3.5. If the LLM went away tomorrow I'd still know how to do most things in Linux, set up my opnsense router, reinstall xcp-ng, do everything in docker, and a boatload of other things that would've been so much more tedious to learn before an LLM. Simplicity of access to knowledge doesn't mean you don't learn it. A google search didn't make us learn slower than when we had to scour for books at the library, it increased the pace dramatically. Same goes for LLMs.

You can use LLMs and learn nothing. People who like to learn won't ever use it that way.

I think there are truths in there but depends on your view.

If you have a finite time and have a goal, is learning something that takes a longer time better towards that goal than being able to move fast and accumulate more capabilities that are on hand when you ‘forget’ them?

The answer engines and the context around my goals allow me to move at an unprecedented pace and move into places that were just not possible before.

But, the nuances learned concepts are indeed skipped over or Pareto’d

> but i also don't make any effort to write clearly anymore

This seems like a huge mistake considering that prompting AI clearly seems to yield better results.

You think reading fiction is supposed to be productive? I suspect even aphantasics will be using brain function when reading fiction.

Same but I am leaning towards it being sarcastic.