Comment by falsaberN1
5 days ago
AI hasn't made a dent in my enjoyment of my hobbies and tech (the opposite, now I have more toys to play with than ever), but politics? Oh man, politics becoming the new religion has absolutely ruined pretty much everything for me.
I don't believe in politics. For me left and right are all *the same*. Just a bunch of megalomaniacs wanting to hog power for themselves. This extremely hot take has made people call me more names and costed me more relationships than if I went out and started screaming slurs in a crowded street. Because I am a "fence sitter" or whatever.
And I just can't handle it anymore, I just went full recluse. I don't go into social media anymore, I don't talk to anyone at a personal level anymore. Outside of some github issues and some comments here, I don't touch socials anymore. I am just overwhelmed by the level of vitriol and hate the new internet is based on.
I don't know how sincere this comment is, but if there are others thinking this way, it's a mistake. Nihilism is a dead end (or political cynicism/fatalism, whatever you want to call it).
Social media is a veil of manipulation, engagement maximization, and bots. Do not misconstrue it as any kind of real or productive politics. There is a signal there amongst the noise, but it's hard to make sense of if you do not have a coherent world model or belief system. You have to learn to cut through it if you want to keep your sanity.
>Nihilism is a dead end (or political cynicism/fatalism, whatever you want to call it).
Nihilism is a popular, vague pejorative today but philosophically it's a serious answer to exactly the manipulation, engagement-bait and juvenile techno-optimism of our age. Whenever you're at the end of some moral or social period active, not resentful or passive nihilism, is a palate cleanser and necessary condition for revaluation of all values.
The kind of middle aged men that tend to fall into despair or suicide in these times are usually people who rely on some identity provided to them that then crumbles. Job, money, house, status, 'how to be a man' etc. There's something they're supposed to be like and they're not, stability they took for granted just stops.
And we're in a period like this across many dimensions, political, technological etc. And if you want to be sane a dose of nihilism is fairly important so that you can go on and construct some sovereign answers to all these issues.
Isn't that existentialism rather than nihilism? Or perhaps you are mention it as a transition state before arriving at constructing your own meaning?
> not resentful or passive nihilism
To be more precise, it was passive nihilism I was criticizing. That's the sentiment I sensed in the original comment.
Idk. The thing with politics is I see the bat shit crazy stuff that social promotes then I see it almost verbatim when I’m out and about IRL.
Family members post absolute vitriol online. Then they want to make sure you read it and agree with them at thanksgiving dinner. Any type if civil discussion of differing views instantly devolves into name calling and insults.
Weird times.
Best case, it's like a cold war. That's what it feels like in my family (well, my extended family at least, my close relatives all roughly share the same outlook I have). They know I don't agree with them, I know it, we tiptoe around it and silently agree that we should just talk about anything but politics. Sometimes it's hard, but so far we seem to have settled on family being more important the winning a political battle.
Read my other comment in the thread. Why would I post a non-sincere comment on this anyway? My belief is that all of us, no matter our gender, religion, age or social standing, are prey for the political and "elite" class. And not only we aren't holding them accountable, we are fighting their fights for them in several fields of our lives in form of "political discourse".
My country has a very serious housing crisis, both the left and the right are contributing to it because both parties have multiple people who are "serial landlords" with several properties, so they only make laws that benefit the landlord. This is a known fact and there are huge protests ongoing about it to the point emergency elections have been called.
Yet, saying this simple stance just as I did now, that both of them are guilty, will have people call you an "ultra" or call you a conspiracy theorist, that you are a fence sitter, that you don't know what you are talking about, and so and so on. Like you have some ulterior motive or are a paid shill from the other side or making the logic leap to thinking you support the far-right for not choosing one of the two existing "teams". Everything has gone crazy.
> Read my other comment in the thread. Why would I post a non-sincere comment on this anyway?
HN is social media, saner than most, but I still don't assume sincerity.
> Yet, saying this simple stance just as I did now, that both of them are guilty, will have people call you an "ultra" or call you a conspiracy theorist, that you are a fence sitter, that you don't know what you are talking about, and so and so on.
If you mean people online, then that's expected. It's what I meant by social media being unproductive. Hostility attracts engagement and makes it more visible.
National politics is heavily influenced by economic interests, including global capital. And as wealth concentrates so does political power. That doesn't mean ordinary citizens have no political agency though, don't underestimate the difference you can make in your local community.
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I think most folks are actually in the middle and generally agree. Anyone who thinks one of the us political parties is completely innocent is lying, either to you or themselves.
That being said, I think it's worth noticing if one party does more bad things than the other and I also think speaking up with your values is worth it and maybe even a duty we owe the people who built this country before us.
Either way, your first responsibility is your own mental health so you have full support from this internet stranger.
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> it's a mistake. Nihilism is a dead end (or political cynicism/fatalism, whatever you want to call it).
As someone deep in nihilism and political cynicism, I can concur, this is no real solution.
The problem is I don't believe leaning into that world is a solution either, and anyone who says otherwise, sounds like my boomer parents who have Fox news streaming on their 80" TV that they update every year, in their 4500 sqft home.
I mean this genuinely and not to stoke a fire, comments advocating for leaning into the political world really feel naive and perhaps generational. Most younger people have a damn near impossible time feeling anything other than dread and sadness when thinking about the state of politics.
I'd love to have a genuine reason to be hopeful, but regardless of which party you believe in, it feels like we're all circling the drain here.
I was deeply cynical about politics until I joined a party. The idiots hid when I was around. The boomers in the nomination commitee were throwing posts at me. It was surrealistic and nothing like I imagined. Then I realized something even worse. There are no cabal of idiots. The older generation is not holding on to power. (YMMV ofc). It is some sort of deeper systematic problem with disengagement. And the angry mob knocking on the door really are idiots.
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For what it's worth I completely agree with you. Engaging in politics is a complete waste of time, unless you happen to have a platform with enough reach to influence a meaningful number of people. Unfortunately, almost all of the communication you will see comes from people with such a platform, and boy do they want to convince you to vote like them.
Once the political climate is polarized enough, choosing to not engage in the discussion about how evil the other team is will get you lumped right in, because if the other team really is evil and you don't care, then you must be pretty bad yourself.
The "Oh, but it's your civic duty to improve your community/state/nation (which obviously means voting the way I want you to, not the way the other half the country wants you to)" tries to frame political engagement as some moral good, but if they redirected the time and energy from political engagement to working at McDonalds and funding charity with the paycheck they would have 1000x the impact, even if you assume there is a Good and Evil team and they are on the Good team.
It’s a nice luxury to be able to ignore politics. There are people in some places who would be imprisoned or killed if the wrong political party came into power. A major political party in my country would love to find a way to deport half of my family if they could and split us up forever. I wish I could ignore politics and just stay neutral.
"Chi tace acconsente" (he who is silent says yes)
People often say this "I wish I could ignore politics, but if the other team wins it would be disastrous", but they rarely put their money where their mouth is. If someone truly believes that, you'd expect them to take actions that actually make an impact, working extra shifts to donate more, or volunteering with a party to help. Instead, everyone I've seen that says this just casts their own statistically insignificant vote and discusses politics with family and friends, resulting in no swayed votes but straining otherwise healthy relationships. Maybe you are the exception.
Same, in many senses. But you can’t fully detach from humanity without losing your own humanity. Forget socials, and pretty much all media consumption, but go talk to real people, make friends, find an human partner. Even raise a family.
Sadly I can't raise a family. This January I got a pretty bad brush with death and got diagnosed with something pretty bad and I don't have a lot left. After 5 high-risk surgeries (because of the medication making me bleed too much) I finally regained some autonomy and can move again, but I can't have kids. My bloodline ends with me, and it's better this way because this is hereditary and gets worse every generation. My kids would die at ~20 if lucky, according to the doctors.
Even knowing this, people around me still called me all sorts of things for not having strong opinions on random political things or wars. How can I worry about that when I am going to die soon anyway? Got enough in my plate to think about global politics.
Jeez, in so sorry to hear that. I personally know multiple people who’ve far exceeded their “you have X time to live”, but in any case live life as best you see fit for happiness and contentment. Spend time with people you love and ignore all the bullshit that stresses us out. Best of luck my friend
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"Go talk to real people" is easier said than done post-Covid. I'm in a European university city where even young people are complaining online of a dearth of opportunities for in-person socializing -- there is a good amount of cultural events and cafes to go out to every night, but it has become taboo to talk to strangers there even among young people, and a single middle-aged man's attempts to socialize anywhere would not be welcomed. Even people attending the remaining hobby meetups are finding merely practice of the hobby, but not any meaningful social contact alongside it.
Social media is poison, sure, but detaching from it doesn't mean you can get an IRL social life to replace it.
Talk to older people then. I am not “young” but I still find it easier to talk to people older than myself (retirees on up to senior geriatrics)
Encouraging people to procreate is absolutely wild to me. That's just adding fuel to the fire.
Yo I'm also strictly apolitical and never had an issue with relationships or social circles, I just tell everyone I meet that "I do not talk politics, because maintaining my mental health is a full time job without putting the weight of the entire country/world onto my shoulders in addition" and so far they've all understood. The radicals who wouldn't understand I just say goodbye to, but this hasn't happened yet.
you may not care about politics but politics sure cares about you. i.e. those who don't pay attention don't get a say and only realize it matters when they're getting steamrolled. I agree with you about the fervor and all, that all sides bear some complicity in the current state of affairs, just not that both sides are the same - that feels like justification for not getting involved.
This is a bait comment because any push back will just re-affirm your stance and I don’t know if you’ll find much agreement here otherwise. Millions of people died in WWII defending against ideas that are actively being brought by a clear side.
FWIW it’s not that hard to be a fence sitter and not advertise it to everyone. It sounds like either you’re hanging with the wrong people, or you’re the problem. I guess go back to playing with your toys!
I know friends and family with many kinds of beliefs, we don’t rehash why they believe those things every time we see each other. Humans are complex /shrug
You just proved my point.
"This is a bait comment". Shame on you.
I voted you both up, because you're both right. Those who aren't dying before their time have an obligation to their future selves to make things better. Unfortunately it sounds as if you have a good excuse to begin letting go of worldly concerns, but the truth is, only the worst people benefit if the rest of us adopt an apolitical perspective.
See my other post in this thread, for example, replying to a Ukrainian who's finding that people he thought could be counted on can't be. As I suggested obliquely in that post, this is because one-third of our electorate is either brainwashed or malicious, one-third is willing to do what we can, and one-third can't be bothered to care either way.
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As I said, maybe I should be a fortune teller!
This is an unbelievably atrocious response. Where is your humanity?
I guess some explanation on why you think it’s an atrocious response would be a good start.