Comment by kleiba2
3 days ago
I tried Gentoo some 20 years ago or so for fun at home. I guess my naive thinking was that software specifically compiled for my hardware would run noticeably faster and "better".
But I didn't last for very long. I remember starting the install for a bigger app before going to bed, only to find the thing still building when I woke up. And as for the dream of more tailored builds, I never really noticed anything much different - I probably was too uneducated about build configurations, or - more likely - the differences just didn't matter too much.
Eventually, I switched to Ubuntu and never looked back.
So, I'm curious - is anyone using Gentoo as their daily driver, and what is the main incentive for you?
I'm using it as my main OS. I have it installed on 4 machines: a RK3288 SBC, a RK3588 desktop, a x86-64 desktop and a x86-64 laptop. Main incentive for me is customization.
- It makes it very very easy to patch any package before they're installed - just put the patches in /etc/portage/patches/<pkg name>/, and that includes the kernel too.
- I can exclude package features that I don't like. For example, my Firefox doesn't try/offer to turn on the wifi.
- I can also exclude entire packages that I don't like, because the entire dependency chains can be eliminated by disabling USE flags. For example, none of my systems have systemd or dbus. Since last year I don't even have openrc anymore (the other Gentoo service manager). One of them doesn't even have udev. I tweaked it so much, I'm not even sure I can still call it Gentoo.
Daily Gentoo desktop user since 2007. Compilations/ricing is one thing, the variety and flexibility of the portage and USE flag system is another. For me it just makes sense to stay with this proven distro. I use Ubuntu variants on my work PC and they just have all this crap that I don't have to tolerate on my gentoo installs.
P.S.: I've got to admit, though, that I was always impressed by the really great quality of Gentoo's documentation!
The docs were great for learning. And it made it so easy to recompile the kernel because it was right in the initial setup and you just had to walk through it again.
My understanding is that compiler flags yielding speed boosts where an actual thing back in the day, but not anymore really.
Nowadays the speed come from other things. For example a few years ago i realised my firefox on linux was doing video encoding/decoding on cpu without using the intel gpu’s hardware encoder/decoder. I did not have to rebuild firefox from scratch but rather fiddle with configurations and environment variables to make sure Firefox wouldn’t assume the lowest common denominator.
That saved battery on my laptop and yielded better performance.
Everything system-wide other than -march=native or equivalent has always been either placebo or sped thing up by introducing bugs. A specific software package sometimes didn’t build with appropriate flags and could benefit from tweaks, but having that do anything remotely meaningful is incredibly rare.
I used it on an off as my daily machine for around 15-20 years I think. It is fast in terms of execution-on-hardware speed, and genuinely puts you in control. For a certain kind of user this is more important than anything.
These days I'm on OSX mostly because of the frequency of business trips meant I needed something small and portable a few years ago, and now the hardware is so much better than what you can get for the PC world. Plus, I am hyper-conscious of my time and can't really afford to be fiddling with new system libraries, kernel configurations and so forth.
Frankly Gentoo was never polished, at some point the system state would break and you'd have to reinstall, and after enough iterations I'd started to err to Ubuntu at some point. But it was by far the most fun of any Linux I used, save perhaps Slackware which was my first.
I think in a few years' time the next machine I build will be a non-Apple ARM custom portable, hopefully running Gentoo, with a lot of custom machining and hardware features.
> It is fast in terms of execution-on-hardware speed, and genuinely puts you in control.
After installing Gentoo I felt I should make some kind of change, and I wanted to replace the GNOME foot in the GNOME menu with an icon I found of the Gentoo "g" in a wizard hat.
I found documentation suggesting that the menu's icon was controlled by some setting somewhere, and I changed that setting to point to the wizard-hat icon.
The menu was unaffected. If I viewed the menu bar's properties, the menu was associated with the wizard-hat icon in the properties display, but it continued to show the foot icon in its name.
I had nothing else to go on and gave up. I'm still mad about that.
> Frankly Gentoo was never polished, at some point the system state would break and you'd have to reinstall
Well, that did happen to me once. But it happened after I uninstalled glibc. I can't really blame Gentoo for that. I always saw it as positive that Gentoo allowed me to do something that ridiculous.
once? You obviously weren't using it long! All sorts of portage tree screwups would affect you periodically that weren't your fault. Details escape me, it just happened, my recollection is circa annually to 24 months. Usually accompanied by some tacit admission of guilt in an enews item. Longer installs were a rarity without a combination of paranoia and luck or a working snapshot setup.
One thing Gentoo would also let you do, unlike any other distro I'm aware of, was install managed cross-compilation toolchains with deep control preserved. An awesome feature if you are building images for variant embedded devices at any frequency.
> at some point the system state would break and you'd have to reinstall
My advice is to start using btrfs snapshots. Make a backup snapshot, run the updates, and if anything breaks, just "btrfs set-default" to the backup snapshot and everything is working again.
Looked in to ZFS snapshots and pretty sure I had it working for awhile, the challenge was the boot sequence required for a custom kernel and rootfs was pretty non-transparent when you wanted to combine the snapshots with encryption and GPT disk label support. Or that's my recollection, anyway. I think a lot of gentoo users these days probably just use genkernel and run scripts for initial root fs generation, ceding control, but that's sort of against the mentality that brought me to gentoo IMHO. Also, stick with openrc...
> Frankly Gentoo was never polished, at some point the system state would break and you'd have to reinstall
Not at all. I have even recovered from bricking the package manager (my fault, these days there are protections in place against that). Worst case you manually extract working binaries and then clean up the mess. And I have never run into issues that needed such drastic measures without doing stupid things.
It is however not a distro for those unwilling to understand how it works.
Yes, this is classic gentoo: recover using some massive hassle technique then tell everyone about it, incrementally growing your knowledge of system failure modes. But once you'd done that a few times you realised keeping your system cleanly structured and doing a clean reinstall was probably a far better strategy for personal time and sanity preservation if you actually wanted to get anything done...
I remember triggering my third recompile of kde-base because I wanted a gui calculator. I moved away not long after that.
xcalc wasn't good enough?