Comment by hagbard_c
3 days ago
Is is quite amazing to see how effective the propaganda has been in pushing the anti-Israel standpoint. The KGB never succeeded here even though they tried quite hard - they even made up a nation state out of thin air to rally around - which shows the power of modern media and communications channels.
No, these specific attacks did not 'kill and maim far more bystanders than the targets themselves', where did you get that from? The beepers contained a few grams of explosives, enough to blow off a hand but not nearly enough to cause the imagined effect you describe. There is plenty of video material available which shows these things going off in pockets, hands and other locations. None of these show any collateral damage.
> The KGB never succeeded here even though they tried quite hard - they even made up a nation state out of thin air to rally around
Given that all nation states are more or less "made up out of thin air", what makes one more artificial than another in your view?
> Given that all nation states are more or less "made up out of thin air"
Not really, they tend to be created through conquest and/or colonisation followed by stabilisation around a common culture. Britannica has an article on the subject worth reading:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/nation-state
Here's the key components of what make a nation state as listed in the article:
A nation-state is a sovereign political entity where a state governs in the name of a community identifying as a nation. Its legitimacy arises from the right to self-determination of a core national group, who view the state as their own and its territory as their homeland.
Key features include:
* Defined Territory A nation-state has a specific territory, over which it has exclusive jurisdiction.
* Sovereignty It possesses the power to govern its territory without external interference, recognized since the Peace of Westphalia (1648).
* National Identity A shared history, culture, and language often create a sense of national identity, though this isn't always the case.
* Compulsory Membership Citizenship within the state is compulsory.
* Monopoly of Force The state claims the sole right to use armed force within its borders.
In the case of "the Palestinian people" and "the Palestinian state" these were created in 1964 by the KGB which drafted the 'Palestinian National Charter' and staffed the 'Palestinian National Council' with 422 selected members. They provided training, intelligence, financing and directed operations all in a clearly successful attempt to portray the PLO as a legitimate national liberation movement. By manufacturing Palestinian nationalism and backing the PLO the KGB successfully promoted it on the international stage which helped the PLO gain observer status at the UN in 1974 and recognition from various states.
I know what a nation state is, just wondering what makes Palestine stand out as an especially artificial one in your view. Is foreign involvement the key factor here?
2 replies →