It's not just AI processes. But things like mediaanalysisd, duetexpertd, etc. even the freaking menu bar agent, all regularly pound my computer both when idling and when in use.
I recently installed App Tamer which is helping a bit, but it doesn't allow me to tame everything. I just checked now and duetexpertd was trying to use nearly two full cores. I have all iCloud integrations turned off, I do not use iCloud at all, and I do not have an iPhone, so I am flabbergasted that this iCloud desktop-phone syncing process runs at such high core usage in the background with extreme regularity. Proof: https://imgur.com/VkBh9bi
Unfortunately, this does nothing for services such as WindowServer which now often takes up 50-100% of a core just on its own.
I have reinstalled and upgraded to the latest version. This MacBook is only a few months old.
While typing this message and literally just having open Codex with one running task that is not doing anything substantial, and Firefox, with no high CPU usage from any tab, my laptop got so hot that I had to use another installed program, Stats, to manually bump up the fan since macOS also has absolutely garbage native system fan controls.
I have fibromyalgia and seem to be sensitive to hot keys; my Thinkpad regularly getting to hot to touch with even light usage is EXACTLY why I went and bought a MacBook one morning in '23. One morning I touched my keyboard and realized I was tired of singeing the nerves on my fingertips and having them hurt for hours. So now in '26, finding myself in the same exact position but with a much more expensive computer, I feel like I am living in a corporate hellscape nightmare.
One thing I have noticed is all of my cores can sit idle except a single one and that will still heat up the machine a lot. If the hardware is designed as such, the software MUST be designed to work around this and not blast a core for 10 minutes straight every time one of a dozen or two misbehaving system processes wants to complete a background task. If the software is not designed for this, the hardware is incomplete and faulty. This would be true if it was shipped as firmware; software doesn't get a free pass here.
But now Pages and Numbers recommend document titles for me, so.... worth it?
Plus one for this tool. I've been using it for about eight months or so. Useful for keeping Backblaze and other daemons from taking over when they're supposed to be invisible.
> Unfortunately, this does nothing for services such as WindowServer which now often takes up 50-100% of a core just on its own.
WindowServer can be a real dog (Finder, too, if opening lots of windows with videos that can be previewed in QuickLook). Closing all of the open windows is inconvenient, but it solves the issue until they get built up again and stay open for an extended period of time. I hope they address this in the future; we'll see how a new CEO prioritizes software quality. I'm the most hopeful that I've been in five or more years given the change in leadership. Doesn't mean it'll happen.
> I have fibromyalgia and seem to be sensitive to hot keys; my Thinkpad regularly getting to hot to touch with even light usage is EXACTLY why I went and bought a MacBook one morning in '23.
That shouldn't happen on a machine built in 2023. Take it to an Apple Store (or third-party) and see if a repair tech agrees. I repaired laptops that overheated when I had that role. There was a debacle about thermal paste a decade and a half ago (maybe longer). If it's under AppleCare, you might be able to get it fixed at no extra charge. If not, I'm sorry that it'll cost money, but Apple offers a flat-rate repair for laptops. Maybe they'll say it's fine and it'll be frustrating, but it's worth exploring.
We will see, Ternus was previously senior VP of hardware engineering so my money has been on it getting worse. I'm excited for Gravity Linux though.
I appreciate your suggestion. I'm curious if the machines you repaired then had aluminum unibodies? My understanding is that if my chassis heats up quickly, then the thermal coupling is good, since the unibodies act as a heat sink. Certainly, blasting the fans at 100% typically makes it cold enough to use after just a couple minutes unless I'm actively pelting my cores. Very impressive cooling system. Unfortunately the default curves are terrible and I have to use third-party software to control the fans, but they do work well. Anytime a Rosetta application is running I usually have to blast the fans as well; Thunderbird alone makes the computer too warm to comfortably use. Thankfully, the benevolent overlords at Apple have decided to cut Rosetta support for 28.
The problem is these background services each taking up 50-200% CPU, and it being enough of them that at least one seems to usually be misbehaving. That means the machine is just running hot a lot more often during casual use. My M2 is under Apple Care but I plan to transition it to Asahi or Gravity soon and just live with the lack of proper SEP support on it for a year or two, and see if that clears up the thermal issues, since it was fine until I upgraded to 26.
The M5 is under Apple Care and I do plan to get around to taking it in. It's a daily driver for work so it's been difficult making time and I had some misplaced hope that Apple would correct this as 27 matured.
Daemons like duetexpertd should be running at a low QoS if they're doing background work and shouldn't be capable of interrupting an app. So you've found a bug. You can report it with Feedback Assistant if you want.
I already have encountered dozens upon dozens of threads, dating back nearly a decade, complaining about duetexpertd. Even if it's meant to do background work, when it starts taking multiple entire cores to do this work, it is categorically not a background service.
Personally I have seen the situation get massively worse since I entered the macOS ecosystem in '23. My machine is running hot right now on flat surface with a nearly 0 user-side load. It's a soup of system processes each taking 15-200% of my cores. I used to not have to mess with the fans at all. Now, I have to keep them on literally full blast via third-party software just to comfortably use my laptop even while simply browsing the web (and I have JS turned off by default).
So I feel silly even considering engaging the Feedback Assistant. My demands are for the ability to categorically disable these services. I do not use Time Machine at all, why is the backup service slamming my machine? I do not need any AI-enabled media features. I don't need document title suggestions. I don't need LLM-powered autocorrect at the cost of heat and performance degradation. I don't need Spotlight indexing. At all. I want it to be a calculator and app launch bar. Literally nothing else. I despise user filesystem indexers as a rule and do not require them to use my machine effectively. I do not use iCloud in ANY capacity, nor Siri. So why are duetexpertd and Siri constantly obliterating my cores and causing sudden performance degradation even while in Gaming mode? I have plenty of free space, so it's not a thrashing issue, either.
My feedback would be that literally half of these services are completely unnecessary to me and yet I cannot fully disable or even configure them. I know this feedback will be completely ignored by Apple, because they are in the business of dictating to me what to expect from my computer and not the other way around.
this is not my experience at all. I wonder if one of your tweaks is causing the software to get into a bad state. Likely worth reporting to Apple even if it feels like it's going into a void.
Which tweaks? This is stock macOS 27 on a stock machine, with of course my development stack on top. I have already tried reinstalling the OS. Besides that, everything else has been configured appropriately in system settings and profiles using Ansible, so that I know exactly what configuration state my machine is in. There's nothing weird I am doing to the system processes other than now using App Tamer to prevent the processes from continuing to use multiple cores while I'm trying to use my machine.
I do feel like my complaints go to the void, and honestly I have seen the kind of responses people get on the Apple support forums and it gives me the same ick that Microsoft's does. And lately I'm just going to get someone's canned, patronizing LLM-generated resume-building response. My only hope out of this mess is Gravity Linux catching up and adding full SEP and thunderbolt support. Once that happens, I'm gone.
I do wonder about the prevalence of my experience vs yours. I can quickly find hundreds of threads across various platforms which confirm my experiences. From what I have been able to ascertain, my experience is increasingly common if not more common than yours. Hard to tell.
Agreed, great advice! I have RSI, lifelong arthritis/gout and other issues so I have to take ergonomics seriously. Laptop stand, external monitor, mechanical and split keyboards and a vertical mouse. But I also work from home and try to move around throughout the day instead of sitting in one spot, and am often on the go, so I find myself having to use the laptop keyboard often.
It's not just AI processes. But things like mediaanalysisd, duetexpertd, etc. even the freaking menu bar agent, all regularly pound my computer both when idling and when in use.
I recently installed App Tamer which is helping a bit, but it doesn't allow me to tame everything. I just checked now and duetexpertd was trying to use nearly two full cores. I have all iCloud integrations turned off, I do not use iCloud at all, and I do not have an iPhone, so I am flabbergasted that this iCloud desktop-phone syncing process runs at such high core usage in the background with extreme regularity. Proof: https://imgur.com/VkBh9bi
Unfortunately, this does nothing for services such as WindowServer which now often takes up 50-100% of a core just on its own.
I have reinstalled and upgraded to the latest version. This MacBook is only a few months old.
While typing this message and literally just having open Codex with one running task that is not doing anything substantial, and Firefox, with no high CPU usage from any tab, my laptop got so hot that I had to use another installed program, Stats, to manually bump up the fan since macOS also has absolutely garbage native system fan controls.
I have fibromyalgia and seem to be sensitive to hot keys; my Thinkpad regularly getting to hot to touch with even light usage is EXACTLY why I went and bought a MacBook one morning in '23. One morning I touched my keyboard and realized I was tired of singeing the nerves on my fingertips and having them hurt for hours. So now in '26, finding myself in the same exact position but with a much more expensive computer, I feel like I am living in a corporate hellscape nightmare.
One thing I have noticed is all of my cores can sit idle except a single one and that will still heat up the machine a lot. If the hardware is designed as such, the software MUST be designed to work around this and not blast a core for 10 minutes straight every time one of a dozen or two misbehaving system processes wants to complete a background task. If the software is not designed for this, the hardware is incomplete and faulty. This would be true if it was shipped as firmware; software doesn't get a free pass here.
But now Pages and Numbers recommend document titles for me, so.... worth it?
> I recently installed App Tamer
Plus one for this tool. I've been using it for about eight months or so. Useful for keeping Backblaze and other daemons from taking over when they're supposed to be invisible.
> Unfortunately, this does nothing for services such as WindowServer which now often takes up 50-100% of a core just on its own.
WindowServer can be a real dog (Finder, too, if opening lots of windows with videos that can be previewed in QuickLook). Closing all of the open windows is inconvenient, but it solves the issue until they get built up again and stay open for an extended period of time. I hope they address this in the future; we'll see how a new CEO prioritizes software quality. I'm the most hopeful that I've been in five or more years given the change in leadership. Doesn't mean it'll happen.
> I have fibromyalgia and seem to be sensitive to hot keys; my Thinkpad regularly getting to hot to touch with even light usage is EXACTLY why I went and bought a MacBook one morning in '23.
That shouldn't happen on a machine built in 2023. Take it to an Apple Store (or third-party) and see if a repair tech agrees. I repaired laptops that overheated when I had that role. There was a debacle about thermal paste a decade and a half ago (maybe longer). If it's under AppleCare, you might be able to get it fixed at no extra charge. If not, I'm sorry that it'll cost money, but Apple offers a flat-rate repair for laptops. Maybe they'll say it's fine and it'll be frustrating, but it's worth exploring.
We will see, Ternus was previously senior VP of hardware engineering so my money has been on it getting worse. I'm excited for Gravity Linux though.
I appreciate your suggestion. I'm curious if the machines you repaired then had aluminum unibodies? My understanding is that if my chassis heats up quickly, then the thermal coupling is good, since the unibodies act as a heat sink. Certainly, blasting the fans at 100% typically makes it cold enough to use after just a couple minutes unless I'm actively pelting my cores. Very impressive cooling system. Unfortunately the default curves are terrible and I have to use third-party software to control the fans, but they do work well. Anytime a Rosetta application is running I usually have to blast the fans as well; Thunderbird alone makes the computer too warm to comfortably use. Thankfully, the benevolent overlords at Apple have decided to cut Rosetta support for 28.
The problem is these background services each taking up 50-200% CPU, and it being enough of them that at least one seems to usually be misbehaving. That means the machine is just running hot a lot more often during casual use. My M2 is under Apple Care but I plan to transition it to Asahi or Gravity soon and just live with the lack of proper SEP support on it for a year or two, and see if that clears up the thermal issues, since it was fine until I upgraded to 26.
The M5 is under Apple Care and I do plan to get around to taking it in. It's a daily driver for work so it's been difficult making time and I had some misplaced hope that Apple would correct this as 27 matured.
Daemons like duetexpertd should be running at a low QoS if they're doing background work and shouldn't be capable of interrupting an app. So you've found a bug. You can report it with Feedback Assistant if you want.
I already have encountered dozens upon dozens of threads, dating back nearly a decade, complaining about duetexpertd. Even if it's meant to do background work, when it starts taking multiple entire cores to do this work, it is categorically not a background service.
Personally I have seen the situation get massively worse since I entered the macOS ecosystem in '23. My machine is running hot right now on flat surface with a nearly 0 user-side load. It's a soup of system processes each taking 15-200% of my cores. I used to not have to mess with the fans at all. Now, I have to keep them on literally full blast via third-party software just to comfortably use my laptop even while simply browsing the web (and I have JS turned off by default).
So I feel silly even considering engaging the Feedback Assistant. My demands are for the ability to categorically disable these services. I do not use Time Machine at all, why is the backup service slamming my machine? I do not need any AI-enabled media features. I don't need document title suggestions. I don't need LLM-powered autocorrect at the cost of heat and performance degradation. I don't need Spotlight indexing. At all. I want it to be a calculator and app launch bar. Literally nothing else. I despise user filesystem indexers as a rule and do not require them to use my machine effectively. I do not use iCloud in ANY capacity, nor Siri. So why are duetexpertd and Siri constantly obliterating my cores and causing sudden performance degradation even while in Gaming mode? I have plenty of free space, so it's not a thrashing issue, either.
My feedback would be that literally half of these services are completely unnecessary to me and yet I cannot fully disable or even configure them. I know this feedback will be completely ignored by Apple, because they are in the business of dictating to me what to expect from my computer and not the other way around.
2 replies →
this is not my experience at all. I wonder if one of your tweaks is causing the software to get into a bad state. Likely worth reporting to Apple even if it feels like it's going into a void.
Which tweaks? This is stock macOS 27 on a stock machine, with of course my development stack on top. I have already tried reinstalling the OS. Besides that, everything else has been configured appropriately in system settings and profiles using Ansible, so that I know exactly what configuration state my machine is in. There's nothing weird I am doing to the system processes other than now using App Tamer to prevent the processes from continuing to use multiple cores while I'm trying to use my machine.
I do feel like my complaints go to the void, and honestly I have seen the kind of responses people get on the Apple support forums and it gives me the same ick that Microsoft's does. And lately I'm just going to get someone's canned, patronizing LLM-generated resume-building response. My only hope out of this mess is Gravity Linux catching up and adding full SEP and thunderbolt support. Once that happens, I'm gone.
I do wonder about the prevalence of my experience vs yours. I can quickly find hundreds of threads across various platforms which confirm my experiences. From what I have been able to ascertain, my experience is increasingly common if not more common than yours. Hard to tell.
14 replies →
Always use an external keyboard, much better for ergonomics also.
Agreed, great advice! I have RSI, lifelong arthritis/gout and other issues so I have to take ergonomics seriously. Laptop stand, external monitor, mechanical and split keyboards and a vertical mouse. But I also work from home and try to move around throughout the day instead of sitting in one spot, and am often on the go, so I find myself having to use the laptop keyboard often.