Comment by gambiting
3 days ago
I was curious if 112 works in the US and apparently it does, but it routes to 911 anyway. Oh well, that's a shame - for context, 112 on this side of the pond will connect you to a general dispatcher which decides if the call should go to the police, firemen or medical dispatcher. Avoids the problem highlighted in the article.
You understand that 911 is a central dispatcher, not to the police specifically, right? That they default more to the police is a completely different issue.
And I much prefer only having to worry about remembering 911. In Norway I'm supposed to remember to call 112 for the police, 110 if there's a fire, and 113 if I need an ambulance or am having a medical emergency.
Oh great, because in Germany it's exactly the other way around. 110 is police, 112 is firefighters and ambulance.
Sure. But if you dial 110 by mistake and meant to dial 112, they will either help you regardless (many emergency dispatchers are colocated) or simply transfer you to where you meant to call.
>>That they default more to the police is a completely different issue.
That is literally what this article is about though, no?
From your description it sounds like 112 and 911 function more or less the same, you call and depending on the problem a dispatcher sends police, fire, or medical.
The issue described with 911 is that the dispatcher will default to the police for something like a mental health crisis which might escalate things to violence. The solution is to change how these calls are handled by the dispatchers and first responders. There already is a centralized number.
In the US, 911 is treated as a generic "emergency" dispatcher. I don't have stats handy but am pretty sure 911 calls are at least as likely to result in an ambulance as a cop (or fire truck).
Yes. This article’s main drive is that because organizationally the PD often (sometimes? Idk) runs the PSAP where calls are received, that they have a bias toward assuming a cop is the correct responder.
I actually disagree with this. The reason why people call police is that they know that the so-called “mental health crisis” is extremely dangerous, in a physical way, not just “emotionally triggering.” Like the dude I saw on the news in NYC last week who was lunging at the police with scissors who eventually ended up shot after the taser failed to get him to stop.
I guess people would like to believe that there’s an army of well-trained social workers out there who could be dispatched to the scene to simply talk someone down from a total psychotic episode, but the fact is that the type of person who’s going to be shot by the police would’ve also stabbed the social workers with scissors too.
The reality of the matter is that people who are severely mentally ill can be very dangerous to others. There’s not an easy way to guarantee they’ll never come to harm unless you’re willing to sacrifice the safety of everyone else by renouncing any possibility of using force.
The linked article isn't entirely correct. Yes, in smaller counties and towns the 911 call center may be led by the police department but in any city of any meaningful size, the E911 call center is a stand alone department. Sometimes within a wider public safety department but that department usually includes fire in addition to police, and 911 is usually a peer to the police not subordinate
The focus should be on who is dispatched on the types of calls, not the organizational structure, because in most places it's already what you'd expect and not part of the police
There needs to be a force that can be dispatched to these types of calls, just like they know to send the Fire Department if it requires some kind of engineering/rescue but isn't a fire and isn't a medical call
More accurately, 112 is the EU emergency number (and the GSM standard) but actual organization of emergency services is entirely national so who deals with your call and how will be local. The article also points out that handling of 911 is local in the US, even if apparently most 911 dispatchers are somehow subordinate to the police.
Also, like 112 forwards to 911 in the US, most cell networks in the EU will forward 911 to 112. American cultural dominance has made it so everyone knows 911 and even Europeans apparently end up dialing it.
I had a weird thing happening with that. I just returned from dinner in Germany driving through a semi-industrial area in the netherlands when I spotted a fire in one of the buildings we drove past. I called 112 and was connected to the German dispatcher and they couldn't connect me to the Dutch fire department. So they sent the German firetruck across the border and meanwhile alerted their Dutch colleagues as well. Apparently my phone had not yet re-registered with the dutch network even though we were already well across the border.
> and meanwhile alerted their Dutch colleagues as well
It's great that they were able to do this! I wonder what that looks like on their end. Maybe it's just a matter of having a direct telephone number for the closest Dutch dispatch center?
That’s super cool of them. I guess fire is one of those things where jurisdiction doesn’t have to be exact. And with the lack of physical border there, they could easily just hop over and do their Dutch colleagues a favor.
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I wouldn't look as far as cultural dominance. If you're abroad and in an emergency, you're just going to dial the number you remember from your home country on autopilot, and there's no good reason not to support that if the number isn't already taken for something else.
Yes, sure. But I am talking about Europeans, not Americans, who know 911. I see kids here who are familiar with 911 just through American media, which is really the only source here for anyone to know the number.
> American cultural dominance has made it so everyone knows 911 and even Europeans apparently end up dialing it.
This is a ridiculous opinion.
It’s weird that that opinion occurred in a comment where they already knew about the reverse decision. It’s more of a case of pragmatism than cultural dominion.
I suppose they think that if America didn’t have so much cachet, that calls to 911 in Europe should route to a recording of someone chewing you out (in whatever the local language is) for being a cultural imperialist.
> 112 on this side of the pond will connect you to a general dispatcher
That's not true as a general rule. It depends on the country, even across the EU.
Some have integrated dispatchers, others route it to the police (and there are other numbers for fire and medicals services) in yet others it goes to the fire department only.
911 also decides where the call should go. The problem is that decision often includes the police for liability (sounds like the person might be violent, even if the root cause is mental health) and/or logistics (a fire usually requires traffic/crowd control) reasons, and they generally respond the quickest (because they don't need to put on their gear, are already patrolling, and have smaller vehicles).
Whoever is initially dispatched to the call by 911 also have a say. E.g. if 911 dispatches police, but the police feel they want an ambulance on scene as well, they can request that. And vice-versa.
There is a difficult balance to strike, in that police presence can escalate tension and make a situation worse, but police are also best equipped to protect other responders if a situation does escalate. It can be a tough judgment call
999 works in most places, too.