Comment by npn

13 hours ago

It is pretty obvious anthropic is lying yet again if you think about it rationally.

Unlike Claude models which always hide the thinking process, Chinese models always show it. So how the heck they can delegate the api call to anthropic and still get the full reasoning? Yes there are tricks to reveal the thinking output, but they are just tricks and do not works reliably. So what would happen when they failed to do it? Cancel the ongoing token generation and revert back to it own model? What about the glitches, the delays, the changes in behavior?

I would understand if the attempts are small in volume, because normally people hardly notice it, but anthropic claims that they happened for millions of calls. Such large numbers would surely get noticed by Chinese users and got reported in the tech forums like linux.do. yet we haven't seen any sight.

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npn

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smurf9852  13 hours ago

They probably took real inputs and served their owned model to the user, while also getting the response from Claude to compare/train

  • npn  12 hours ago

    It is not simple like that, anthropic claimed that they (Chinese labs) routed the api calls to Claude models to keep the illusion that Chinese models are also capable.

    So it is not that the labs call the requests parallely and only return the internal version, but also serve those requests live so they can trick the users that the Chinese models are also great.

    Which is very silly considering Chinese models are published to huggingface for everyone to test.

staticman2  12 hours ago

I agree we shouldn't believe Anthropic but if you wanted to scam people into thinking they weren't using Claude wouldn't you simply generate synthetic COT?

  • npn  12 hours ago

    It is technically impossible, considering they need to serve them live and the token generation speed is a hard limitation. Just think about it, since us models hide their CoT, there will be dozens seconds delay before the first output token retuning to the user. And to predict the fake CoT correctly you need to at least read enough output tokens to make it believable. Then you have to hide their own model CoT to generate said synthetic CoT, which mean further delays. Adding up it will be at least 30s or 1m before you first seeing the thinking process.

    I don't think nobody would notice such delays, because Chinese models do not need to hide the CoT like US models so usually they start emit text pretty soon