Comment by anonymous908213
5 days ago
We've been sliding down the privacy slope for my entire life. Literally every single year is worse than the one before it. At what point does one engage their brain and realize that incessantly repeating "slippery slope! slippery slope fallacy!" does not, in fact, stop them from sliding down the slope? It's not a fucking fallacy when you're on one.
> Which services are inaccessible?
I'm aware of a handful of French services based on France's already existing, Google/Apple required national identity service. Strictly speaking EUDI isn't live until 2027, but there is not a single reason to believe it will end in any other result. Even if you've drank from the spring of eternal naivety, surely there must be a limit to how much good faith you can have in how much your government values your privacy? Maybe you could point me to the source of this blissful ability to close your eyes and ignore everything happening around you?
Now we are heading into a completely different topic. We were talking about the availability of government services, not privacy.
You have not listed a specific French service. I suspect if you did I’d then be able to look it up and find out that there’s a non-digital alternative available, and that putting stuff on the App Store and Google Play is just the government meeting their constituents where they are.
Despite your accusations, I’m not naive about governments that want to clamp down on their citizens’ privacy and freedoms, but at the same time I don’t really think the more mundane government services tend to work this way. I think they’re choosing the technology available to them out of pragmatism. They need to put their services on something that is widely adopted and meets their technical needs. E.g., if the government wants to take payments for vehicle registrations with a credit card, there is no real way around going through Visa/Mastercard. It’s not like they’re doing that as some kind of conspiracy theory anti-privacy scheme.
> We were talking about the availability of government services, not privacy.
Sure. The government services are available to you if you get your nice little American phone and give them your data and aren't sanctioned.
https://www.moncompteformation.gouv.fr/espace-public/je-ne-r...
Yeah, yeah, there's a non-digital alternative available. Just wait an additional four weeks like a second-class citizen. That's totally a reasonable thing to make anyone do and not de facto requiring a duopoly device.
> I think they’re choosing the technology available to them out of pragmatism.
Does this distinction matter? I didn't make any kind of accusations of conspiracy theories. Convenience is enough. Depending on the US duopoly is more convenient than either digital sovereignty or privacy, so you get neither of those things.
The EUDI already compromised its idealistic words on paper. It was meant to be platform agnostic. That died the moment it came time to implement it, because it was more convenient to only support Apple/Google phones. And when the majority of citizens are using it, it becomes more convenient to support only it rather than offering multiple alternatives. Thus, without any malice aforethought, your entire union becomes dependent on and subservient to the US, and the legislation mandating businesses support EUDI is, even if unintentionally, a killing blow to any attempt to escape the status quo. The purpose of a system is what it does[1].
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...
As I suspected, you named the service and it turns out the service has completely reasonable alternatives and/or has very good reasons to require higher security requirements.
First off, waiting up to 4 weeks for these services is not some form of second class citizenry. If my passport application process took 4 weeks in the USA I would be ecstatic.
Second, FranceConnect+ requires higher identity verification, and this higher level of verification is only used for a small subset of specific government services in France, such as the vocational training program, where French citizens can have training paid for by the government. It's very understandable that you'd need higher level identity verification for that to reduce fraud.
Unlike your assertion, there is actually a PC-based identity verification alternative for at least some of the underlying services where you use a webcam, identity number, and ID documents, and then there's also the physical mail option. FranceConnect+ is akin to a single sign on style service to access some of those underlying services with more convenience. Being unable to access FranceConnect+ is not inability to access those services.
FranceConnect+ is only used for 9 services compared to the total 1,800 services offered in FranceConnect:
- Vocational training (CPF)
- Company creation and filings (INPI)
- Applying for energy renovation grant (ANAH)
- Hospital patient data (AP-HP portal)
- Online passport renewal (again, we do this in the US by mail and it takes 4+ weeks)
- Qualified registered letters (AR24)
- National pharmaceutical records (eIDAS)
- Signature/trust service (eIDAS)
- eIDAS interoperability service