Comment by somenameforme
5 days ago
I think the claims about propaganda can often be nullified pretty easily, by simply turning it around. Were it remotely possible to push people in any direction whatsoever then the powers that be would be spending every possible effort, with 'insider access' no less, to tilt people in that direction. And, for the most part, they are. But it simply does not work, at least not on topics that people had any preconceived opinions of before at all. See: Israel/Gaza.
As for Europe, this [1] is a graph of the EU's share of the global GDP, PPP adjusted. It's been in steady decline for decades. And so discussing the decline of Europe, at least relative to the rest of the world, is hardly outrageous.
[1] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/253512/share-of-the-eu-i...
> As for Europe, this [1] is a graph of the EU's share of the global GDP, PPP adjusted.
That's fun, here's the US's version of that graph.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270267/united-states-sha...
Notice that both show the same downward trend?
Do you know what's behind that trend? It's because it's a graph of the global share. The share drops if the GDP of other members is increasing faster. Someone like, say, China.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270439/chinas-share-of-g...
China is doing brilliantly since the 80s, to the point it overthrew the US as the global hegemon. India is also doing well, albeit in a far less impressive way
https://www.statista.com/statistics/271328/indias-share-of-g...
I don't think I was stating or implying anything else? It's also completely reasonable to say that US has been in relative decline, though to a lesser degree than Europe. Though I wouldn't call China a hegemon. They have the largest economy in the world, by an increasingly wide margin, but I think we've fully entered into a multipolar world and we will probably be staying here for the foreseeable future at least.
> it's also completely reasonable to say that US has been in relative decline
I'm not sure you understood the point, which is that relative trends are irrelevant.
If there's a single member who outgrows everyone and increases its share of the global market, of course all other members will see their relative share shrink.
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> it simply does not work, at least not on topics that people had any preconceived opinions of before at all. See: Israel/Gaza.
Except it does work. Of course you're never going to make dyed in the wool supporters of Israel xor Gaza switch sides with propaganda. This is obvious, as you imply.
What propaganda does do is crowd out the middleground nuanced opinions, which will bounce back and forth between condemning Israel or Hamas based on what each one is actually doing, in favor of the "opposing" extremist views wherein each camp can do no wrong. The extremist views each then feed on the other's popularity to boost its own, ultimately supporting unrestrained maximalist actions by both sides.
Nice such lying with statistics, you should give a course.
Of course this little graph fails to account for the fact that the EU took on the burden of paying for 50 years of back maintenance in former USSR countries. And on balance the change has been very positive. It will take at least another 30 years to reach parity.