Comment by bradleyjg

12 years ago

The problem is that the people who were actually in Germany breaking German law were (likely) on diplomatic passports and so have plenary immunity. Meanwhile, under international law, which German courts take seriously even if US courts do not, senior state officials have functional immunity for actions taken in an official capacity with a disputed exception for violations of jus cogens+.

While there may be some room between the people on the ground who are immune and the senior officials who are immune to prosecute mid-level functionaries, that's not terribly satisfying and there still remains the problem of getting them in front of the court.

See generally: http://www.lawfareblog.com/2013/10/the-nsa-affair-goes-crimi...

+The most serious types of international norms: things like genocide, slavery, torture, and piracy.

16 comments

bradleyjg

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swombat  12 years ago

Typically, if a diplomat constantly breaks the laws of the nation they're sent to in this manner, they get kicked out, and if the sender country in question keeps sending this sort of diplomat, the embassy would eventually be closed.

  • a3n  12 years ago

    I cannot imagine Germany closing the US Embassy.

    • malandrew  12 years ago

      True. However I wonder if they could at least impose an embassy from which many forms of eavesdropping are not possible. i.e. US draws up floorplans and whatnot. The Germans modify those plans to make it into a giant Faraday cage will precisely defined inlets and outlets for water, gas, electricity, sewage, etc. Lastly all additions to the structure externally are to always inspected to make sure they don't contain eavesdropping equipment.

      This would at least force all eavesdropping and surveillance performed to be the same kind of eavesdropping and surveillance doable from US soil. Furthermore, the Germans can try to perform some form of enforcement on what types of people can show up at the embassy to work.

      With biometrics and sharing between countries, it's conceivable that one day you won't be able to cross official borders with two identities ever again. This means that you effectively force someone to choose only one identity forever. That identity can either be one of your secret government identities or it can be your real identity, but it can no longer be both at different times. Once you choose, you'r stuck with that decision

    • PavlovsCat  12 years ago

      It certainly would make sense, since the US embassy in Berlin seems to be used for spying, too:

      http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-...

      > "Research by SPIEGEL reporters in Berlin and Washington, talks with intelligence officials and the evaluation of internal documents of the US' National Security Agency and other information, most of which comes from the archive of former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, lead to the conclusion that the US diplomatic mission in the German capital has not merely been promoting German-American friendship. On the contrary, it is a nest of espionage. From the roof of the embassy, a special unit of the CIA and NSA can apparently monitor a large part of cellphone communication in the government quarter."

      http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/tid-34373/infrarotbi...

      ^ "US diplomats could be expelled from the country"... mind you, they're not at all talking about closing the embassy, but "just" expelling those under diplomatic immunity who were doing this (and persecuting those not under diplomatic immunity). It might just be to look good for the Germany population, they might be serious... here's hoping.

      http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/media/usbotschaft105_v-ardga...

      ^ infrared image of the embassy rooftop which I saw on German TV, in a discussion which surprised me by its serious tone and the absence of handwaving or belittling.