Comment by lightgreen
5 years ago
I do not support anyone in the US, I don't even live in the US.
But I support free speech and free expression whether it comes from left or from the right.
I lived too long in a country where only one opinion is allowed, and those who speak differently get problems, like get fired. It is not that bad in the US (yet?), of course.
This turned into a wretched flamewar. Not cool.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629941.
> > If you want respect don't admit to supporting bigotry
> But I support free speech and free expression whether it comes from left or from the right.
Free speech doesn't mean I have to respect you. It means that when you start raving about the earth being flat or whatever, I can't shut you up. I can walk away, I can say "You're an idiot", and I can say "Guys, this dude is a flat Earther. Let's make fun of the moron", and then we can all say, "Hahaha! You're a moron! Neener neener" and so on and so forth. And you can do that to me.
I can even say "This guy is a flat Earther, don't buy his bread" and others can repeat it. That's freedom.
And if I do that I will, in practice, chill your speech because maybe you care about selling your bread more than you do about peddling flat Earthism. But that's what positive rights sometimes do.
And as someone with a strong view of individual freedom, I'd rather that chilling effect than any restriction on who I can speak out against.
Everyone has the freedom to bring mostly-negativity into the world, but that doesn't mean I have to respect them for it even when it's in support of issues I completely agree with.
Precisely. You don't have to respect anyone for anything. There is no requirement anywhere. As a free person, you can choose to disrespect people even if they do things society considers commendable. You can even express this disrespect. This is fundamental to the freedom of this society.
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> Free speech doesn't mean I have to respect you.
Nobody seriously cares about respect as much as about their freedom.
> I can say "Guys, this dude is a flat Earther. Let's make fun of the moron"
The sad fact is that you seem to only support freedom of express progressive ideas.
Consider someone saying "Guys, this dude is gay. Let's make fun of the moron". I guess you won't support freedom of speech for that person.
Read the context: it was about respect. I even quoted it for you. But we can proceed anyway if the conversation has shifted.
> Consider someone saying "Guys, this dude is gay. Let's make fun of the moron". I guess you won't support freedom speech for that person.
Oh dude, I support that like nothing else, but I will use my freedom of speech to absolutely shun that individual. I absolutely encourage you to admit to any homophobia, etc. That way I know to shun you and to ask my friends to shun you. It is my freedom of speech and expression that permits me to do that. Free individuals must have the liberty to freely associate. And from the liberty to freely associate comes the liberty to choose to not associate.
And if you want to speak up and ask for me to be shunned, I encourage you to do that. Because I believe in a freedom of speech and expression that is almost absolute.
You will never find me making laws that say that expressing homophobia or racist opinions or whatever must be outlawed. Say it loud, say it proud, you have the right.
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