Comment by zeroc8
5 years ago
Austrian here, we are somewhat in between Russians and Americans, when it comes to smiling. But what I can tell you is that life is just so much better when people smile at you, even if it might not be a hundred percent genuine. My comparison stems from having worked with both Russians and Americans. Being around grumpy Russians all day long makes live really miserable.
I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?").
Now replay the same situation in another ("non-friendly") culture. Most of the "not-friendly" cultures would invite you to a free beer, asking what happened etc.
I'm an American and I love smiling at strangers and receiving a genuine smile in return. It's the perfect minimal conversation: no words, just sharing a moment of mutual positivity and kinship. It's like you said the perfect thing, except you didn't have to think of anything clever.
It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule. As if the default is hostile intent. It sounds like a terrible thing to assume about your fellow stranger, to be honest.
Maybe the point is that if you start off assuming maximum hostility, the reality is more likely to be a pleasant surprise?
At any rate, we have common ground when it comes to those meaningless questions. They're hollow and they ruin the perfection of a nice wordless smile or simple "hi" or "hey". The absolute worst is when you pass a stranger and say "hi" and they respond to your back as they walk off into the distance, "hey, how ya doin?"
You are thinking that they’re assuming hostility, when all they assume is you being neutral and tactful by default. The logic is: “we don’t know each other and have no reason to feel happy about something between us, for there is none [yet]”. If you smile at me, I think that you’re either happy about me, i.e. are focusing on me (which is inappropriate unless you’re someone I could in theory adore(smile at genuinely?), e.g. a girl, a puppy, etc), or you find something funny in me. It’s nice that you are open and friendly, but the way you do it isn’t tactful, and is too intimate for a stranger. You’d probably feel the same if you stood on a pier alone watching sunset, and some stranger moved beside, right next to your shoulder, never saying a word. So open, friendly and non-hostile, but something wrong – that’s personal space in action. We just have emotional personal space that no one dares to enter without invitation or at least enough courage.
It’s not a criticism, just explanation of what other people feel. Now for a criticism (well lack of understanding really):
Americans are obsessed with being Happy. They’re always smiling, and when bad things happen, they’re sad, but at the same time they’re okay, it’s fine. But isn’t that a contradiction? They are lying. What’s even wrong with feeling bad (or just neutrally sad, inert, nostalgic) and not finding other’s happiness encouraging? Why are they even copying other’s emotions, when they should have their own? People have a spectrum emotions (more than 50 of them) for serious neurological reasons, and they feel every one of them, not only “good” and “fine”. Why are they denying everything except happiness and love, when it’s normal to feel all of the spectrum sometimes?
I don't know how much of this is me being Finnish, but I personally don't even know how to smile at will; a smile is something that happens naturally and trying to deliberately smile at people when I'm not actually feeling it just makes me feel dishonest and usually results in a grimace instead.
While I might really be enjoying a good walk in the sun for example, I can't really say that it makes me want to smile at every random passer-by.
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I don’t think people are assuming hostility, the article explains that it simply means a different thing e.g. laughter instead of positivity. Imagine if you were to go about your day winking at everyone you saw, people would think you were strange or somewhat crazy, they might think you’re hitting on them or perhaps had some sinister intent.
> It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule.
I would say this is pretty common in the USA. Anyone smiling or laughing, especially in the customer service industry, can easily be interpreted that they are up to something. Makes customers uncomfortable. Obviously a generalized statement, but it seems most food and customer service industries despise their customers.
You're misunderstanding what the phrase "how are you" means in the US. It is not a literal question, but a set phrase with implicit social rules for "correct" responses.
This doesn't mean the person asking is faking kindness - but also understand they're not actually asking for a rundown of how your life is going. Negative responses to the question are ok, just not deeply personal answers.
Tom Scott has an excellent video that addresses this very issue.
https://youtu.be/eGnH0KAXhCw
It's the same in Russian actually. You're saying "how are you" ("как дела") after "hello" ("привет"), but you're not really expecting any meaningful answer other than "I'm OK" ("нормально") or "I'm fine" ("отлично").
But it might be one way to start a conversation when you want to tell something you don't like. Like "How are you? I'll live. What happened? ...". But it's more of closed friends conversation when you can feel OK sharing your burdens with other person. I guess, similar thing could happen in US?
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Fun experiment, try asking "how are you" a second time. A lot of Americans will respond instinctively, without wondering why you asked again.
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I always enjoyed the "how is it going", and then not even waiting for a response before moving forward with the conversation. I'm a native born American, have traveled outside of the country only a handful of times, and yet I still find it jarring to be asked that.
What you write is true from an US point of view, and that's the point of my comment. In Europe you wouldn't ask anyone how she/he feels when you don't want to accept and reply to the response, even if it is deviating from the expected (happy) response.
I don't think so. Try it "not good, my aunt just died" and not every American but many would try to comfort you. Not saying it wouldn't be a bit awkward but that it's not 'just faked' and everyone tries to get out of any real emotion.
True!
I have people tell me their bad news or downers pretty often when I greet them with “how are you?”, and my care or sympathy for the situation they’re in is not at all insincere.
I’m half German, and my grandfather always found it absurd to visit the US and have everyone saying “thank you” and “sorry” and smiling all the time. His opinion was that this behavior devalued the true meaning of a “thank you” or a smile.
Interestingly, Germans have now adopted two words for sorry, one being just “sorry” (spoken with a guttural “r”) and the other being “Entschuldigung“ — literally translates to something like “acceptance of blame.” The German “sorry” is much more common, and “Entschuldigung” is reserved for the true apologies, maybe analogous to “I apologize” in American English. Then it might be “ich entschuldige mich” or “I place the fault on myself.”
I mention this because it seems the “American” way of being more colloquially friendly is becoming more adopted in parts of Europe, especially by younger generations in areas like Germany and the Netherlands. Maybe this is just from exposure to American media.
Whatever the cause, I find this shift pleasant, as it saves me from having to code-switch between American friendliness and German staunchness when I talk with friends or family there (except for the older generations).
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As an American, I can tell you for some of us, its not faked. We just like people, genuinely, and really enjoy interacting with them.
My favorite part about the pandemic is that I can smile constantly under my mask, even while picking out soup at the grocery store, without looking like an idiot.
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In America, if your aunt just died, I would say "really bad, but thanks for asking". They asked superficially; I answered superficially but honestly. I left an open door for them to ask more if they want to. If they don't, well, it was superficial conversation, and I won't be surprised or disappointed, and I hope I didn't put them on the spot too much.
"I'm very sorry to hear that. "- Keeps walking.
I don't want to leave that door open.
It's just a different protocol. You don't respond with details right away, you say, "Actually not great" with some emotion. If the person cares, they will ask, what's wrong? Then you unload.
You might as well get mad at HTTP when you send a malformed request.
It's not fake to smile at someone you do not know and ask how they are. It's merely a greeting.
All cultures have context clues. Your surgeon might have just met you, but be legitimately concerned about your condition. Your best friend might be interested in your emotional state. The stranger on the street might merely be "polite", or hoping/wishing you are having a good day, but neither wanting to hear a full dissertation on your emotional state, nor a recitation of your medical history that a doctor might find relevant.
I am American. I have transitioned from saying "How are ya?" as a greeting to "Good [day,morning,evening]" etc. It's every bit as polite and does not feign concern.
I have to tell you as an American and kinda grumpy one at that, if you get a smile and hi on the sidewalk as we pass each other it’s purely out of love for mankind.
IME as a US resident, it's not fake, for most of your audience. It's fake for the natural slice of the audience that are on the selfish/narcissist spectrum - they're forced to parrot it as a broader cultural norm, but for everyone else who's even merely neutral on the empathy spectrum, it's a license to actually be nice and not get hammered with suspicion for it.
That said - it has to be noted that if you're interacting with "service workers" (any clerks at stores, hotels, restaurants, etc), there's a really horrible catch-22 ubiquitous in the corporate world. Those people are forced by corporate rules to be obsequiously friendly ... but are also so overworked that they generally have no time to actually help someone with anything that's not a direct job duty.
It really sucks because, traditionally, in the sense of i.e. a bartender/barista, that's actually supposed to be a large part of the "hospitality" job. They're supposed to be someone you can talk at length to, and traditionally have functioned like an entry-level therapist/counsellor in society. Unfortunately the fast-food mentality has trickled into a lot of institutions like that, and most of them are too busy fulfilling orders to do anything of the sort.
This is one of the reasons I hope wearing masks in public becomes a permanent thing. I don't want anyone to know whether I am smiling or not.
This sounds like a made up distinction. If I asked someone "how are you" and they reply about how they're having a hard time because a family member died I would definitely not "try to get out of the situation", and I can say the same for the people around me, for the most part.
Thank you so much! You're so welcome!
There's only one word 'y'all' need: 'cheers'.
Sorry, I wish we were better at this. I can tell you that there's a difference between our quick "hey, how are you" said in passing and "how are you" where the person is facing you, not moving, and waiting for an answer. In the second situation, Americans would consider anyone who doesn't respond to sad news with concern to be rude. Not many will invite you to drink on the spot, though.
Cannot agree enough. I joined a startup that very clearly initially hired for Russian cultural fit (friends hiring friends) and the mood was like attending a funeral on a daily basis. During interviewing, the hiring manager very cleverly had the minority of native-born Americans speak to me so I never got a feel for the actual culture.
I couldn't imagine working long for a place where every day seemed like solitary misery, especially remote during a pandemic, where rapport and ease of communication matters a lot. Didn't help that the quality of engineering work was absolutely abysmal (see friends hiring friends). Was contacting recruiters within a week.
Weird, the only big “Russian cultural fit” issue I can think of is gendered norms and complete disregard for “political correctness”. People often make jokes at the workplace and make small talk, but yes, we don’t usually have big smiles during normal conversations or greetings.
Smiling and being entertaining are not correlated (personal experience after a few decades of being alive). There are few everyday situations worse than being welcomed by a smile which looks fake one mile out. A genuine smile is not an every-second gesture.
> even if it might not be a hundred percent genuine
I reckon there are a couple of ways we could define a 'genuine' smile. Most strictly, as a basically involuntary expression of emotion. More loosely, we could include voluntary smiles as long as they are a sincere signal of goodwill. I don't really want to be smiled at by people who hate me, but I think there's plenty to be said for cultural norms in favour of 'genuine' smiles under the looser definition.
I had a language exchange with an austrian once. I was joking and chatting with him the whole time but he was always reluctant to smile. By hot damn did I get him to do it.