I think we're all a little tired of the off-topic police. +1 for giving it a rest.
"Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."
I'd argue that we should simply flag accounts as hackers, thereby, by definition, greenlighting anything they post, except I wouldn't be one of them.
Vanity Fair, Matt? That's what you want to see on this site? Look, I enjoy your blog but if HN starts with the NYT, VF, US News, et al posts all day long, this won't be a place you or I want to visit. And that's the problem everyone one of us (myself included) who post as the off-topic police are trying to prevent. We have a fun group and this is not where we come to get news; this is where we come to talk to other really smart people about hacker/startup-related topics.
I know nothing about Vanity Fair, but that article was good. So yeah, that's what I want to see here.
When you post as the off-topic police, you're defining off-topic in a different way than this site's guidelines suggest, and that is what I find annoying.
I'm interested in Isaiah Berlin too, but I wouldn't submit that link. It's not particularly good. It probably wouldn't get many hackers interested in Isaiah Berlin. But if you felt the article was particularly good, I don't see why you shouldn't go ahead and post it. It would be within the HN guidelines to do so.
It's impossible to follow the guidelines precisely, because good hackers aren't all interested in the same things. For any post outside the safety zone of, say, programming, startups, math and maybe physics, there will be some good hackers who aren't interested. But it doesn't follow that others won't like it a lot. The trouble with the "off-topic police" is that they're trying to speak for all hackers about what's not interesting. Le HN c'est moi.
Sure. Though I generally dislike Wikipedia entries, this is meant to be a marketplace of ideas, rather than a site that appeals to my tastes above all.
I think we're all a little tired of the off-topic police. +1 for giving it a rest.
I am tired as well, with all these off-topic articles. Giving it is a rest is a bad idea, since that will only accelerate HN going the reddit way. For all practical purposes it is going that way, just that you are helping accelerate it.
But they are, by definition, not off-topic. Given PG's guidelines, for something to be off-topic it has to not gratify anyone's intellectual curiosity and not be of interest to any hackers.
So to say that something is off-topic here, you have to be willing to assert that it is not of interest to any hackers, which means that whoever posted it and whoever voted it up are not hackers. Are you willing to assert that for something that now has 22 points? I wouldn't be willing to assert that for anything that was submitted at all unless it were blatant spam.
It seems that everything posted here is, by definition, either spam or on-topic. Perhaps you are looking for a social news site that defines on-topic as being CS-related, but at least according to the current guidelines, that is not this site.
That's why I'm constantly annoyed at the off-topic police. They're trying to make this site into what they wish it were, rather than what it is. Please reread the stated purpose of this site and explain to me how it is possible that that article does not fall within the guidelines.
Edit: I would appreciate that anyone who downmodded this explain my logical error. Not because I care about the karma, but because I'd like to see at least a reasonable explanation as to how I'm incorrect.
HN doesn't have to be news about hackers, just any testy brain food that hackers like. If it's been voted up and it's not link bait then it's what the userbase wants
I don't mind, and am often quite fond of the 'tasty brain food' articles when they completely avoid politics/economics/other controversial stuff that generates more heat than light.
Wait until your VCs (econimist) force you to hire a new CEO (politician)and watch him drive the company you and your co-founders have worked hard for and you will see how much politics/economics there really is in the startup environment.
At that period you will start to understand. Be more concerned.
Not especially interesting things sometimes make it to the frontpage for a little while because a couple of people voted for a new item together, but they quickly drop again if more people don't vote or comment.
I think it's fair to point out it's nothing to do with Hacking. I also think it's cool it's on the frontpage. There doesn't have to be a disconnect.
I think that comments are a great way to add meta-data to a story. People often read the comments before investing time into a link, in that scenario this simple note is fine.
Swombat, now look what you've done, you've turned the comments section of this post into a debate about rules...
Anyway, yeah this sucks ass. I love how China just spent $300 billion staging games while Russia invades Georgia, there continues to be a war in Iraq, and Zimbabwe suffers 9000% inflation.
Give it a rest. I'm a hacker, and this satisfies my intellectual curiosity. If you don't like it, don't vote for it.
I think we're all a little tired of the off-topic police. +1 for giving it a rest.
"Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."
I'd argue that we should simply flag accounts as hackers, thereby, by definition, greenlighting anything they post, except I wouldn't be one of them.
Vanity Fair, Matt? That's what you want to see on this site? Look, I enjoy your blog but if HN starts with the NYT, VF, US News, et al posts all day long, this won't be a place you or I want to visit. And that's the problem everyone one of us (myself included) who post as the off-topic police are trying to prevent. We have a fun group and this is not where we come to get news; this is where we come to talk to other really smart people about hacker/startup-related topics.
I know nothing about Vanity Fair, but that article was good. So yeah, that's what I want to see here.
When you post as the off-topic police, you're defining off-topic in a different way than this site's guidelines suggest, and that is what I find annoying.
> I think we're all a little tired of the off-topic police.
Do you think I should submit this link?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Berlin
(I read it today to satisfy my intellectual curiosity.)
I'm interested in Isaiah Berlin too, but I wouldn't submit that link. It's not particularly good. It probably wouldn't get many hackers interested in Isaiah Berlin. But if you felt the article was particularly good, I don't see why you shouldn't go ahead and post it. It would be within the HN guidelines to do so.
It's impossible to follow the guidelines precisely, because good hackers aren't all interested in the same things. For any post outside the safety zone of, say, programming, startups, math and maybe physics, there will be some good hackers who aren't interested. But it doesn't follow that others won't like it a lot. The trouble with the "off-topic police" is that they're trying to speak for all hackers about what's not interesting. Le HN c'est moi.
Edit: How about this? Do you think I should submit it? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121858701285435131.html
Sure. Though I generally dislike Wikipedia entries, this is meant to be a marketplace of ideas, rather than a site that appeals to my tastes above all.
I think we're all a little tired of the off-topic police. +1 for giving it a rest.
I am tired as well, with all these off-topic articles. Giving it is a rest is a bad idea, since that will only accelerate HN going the reddit way. For all practical purposes it is going that way, just that you are helping accelerate it.
But they are, by definition, not off-topic. Given PG's guidelines, for something to be off-topic it has to not gratify anyone's intellectual curiosity and not be of interest to any hackers.
So to say that something is off-topic here, you have to be willing to assert that it is not of interest to any hackers, which means that whoever posted it and whoever voted it up are not hackers. Are you willing to assert that for something that now has 22 points? I wouldn't be willing to assert that for anything that was submitted at all unless it were blatant spam.
It seems that everything posted here is, by definition, either spam or on-topic. Perhaps you are looking for a social news site that defines on-topic as being CS-related, but at least according to the current guidelines, that is not this site.
That's why I'm constantly annoyed at the off-topic police. They're trying to make this site into what they wish it were, rather than what it is. Please reread the stated purpose of this site and explain to me how it is possible that that article does not fall within the guidelines.
Edit: I would appreciate that anyone who downmodded this explain my logical error. Not because I care about the karma, but because I'd like to see at least a reasonable explanation as to how I'm incorrect.
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HN doesn't have to be news about hackers, just any testy brain food that hackers like. If it's been voted up and it's not link bait then it's what the userbase wants
I don't mind, and am often quite fond of the 'tasty brain food' articles when they completely avoid politics/economics/other controversial stuff that generates more heat than light.
Wait until your VCs (econimist) force you to hire a new CEO (politician)and watch him drive the company you and your co-founders have worked hard for and you will see how much politics/economics there really is in the startup environment.
At that period you will start to understand. Be more concerned.
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Some stuff is just flash in the pan.
Not especially interesting things sometimes make it to the frontpage for a little while because a couple of people voted for a new item together, but they quickly drop again if more people don't vote or comment.
I think it's fair to point out it's nothing to do with Hacking. I also think it's cool it's on the frontpage. There doesn't have to be a disconnect.
I think that comments are a great way to add meta-data to a story. People often read the comments before investing time into a link, in that scenario this simple note is fine.
Swombat, now look what you've done, you've turned the comments section of this post into a debate about rules...
Anyway, yeah this sucks ass. I love how China just spent $300 billion staging games while Russia invades Georgia, there continues to be a war in Iraq, and Zimbabwe suffers 9000% inflation.
Unintentional, really... I was just pointing out, in a neutral tone, that this wasn't hacker news. It was an informational note, really.
Also, looking at the other comment threads, it seems to me that there isn't much genuine discussion about this anyway.
Hackers like good long-form narrative journalism even more than they like Ron Paul. Thanks for explaining your downmod; I've cancelled it out.