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Comment by ajb

1 year ago

The actual rulings can be found at https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192...

and a summary is: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192...

Dissents etc can be found in the case page: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 - in particular the opinion of Judge Aharon Barak, the Israeli ad-hoc Judge (a peculiarity of the ICJ is that each side gets to add a judge, but it doesn't have much effect since there are 17 other judges). But interestingly Judge Barak ruled against Israel in the case of two measures, enforcement against Incitement and ensuring humanitarian aid.

I believe it's also available in French, for those more familiar with that language.

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ajb

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throwaway421967  1 year ago

Since the comment that I replied to was flagged, I'm posting this here because it is simply a statement of facts.

- Judge Barak's numbers on civilian deaths on 7th october are simply wrong and could've been easily checked. 766 civilians were killed, 1200 was the total number of deaths (including armed forces).

- Israel's own numbers say "2 civilians killed for every one militant"[1], that's 66% in the Gaza offensive.

- 766 / 1200 = 63.8%

- 63.8% and 66% are indeed close numbers, don't see why would it be flagged.

Of course, the numbers claimed by other NGOs / UN make it worse. But Israel's numbers are sufficient to make that claim.

[1] - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-m...

shmatt  1 year ago

Barak is no fan of the current Israeli government. And they often attacked him publicly and organized demonstrations around his home. They truly sent the best international law expert the country has to offer

  • YZF  1 year ago

    This is more nuanced. Some people in the government respect Barak. I don't know that Barak is active in politics (I haven't really heard him opine on the current government, but one can imagine he's not a fan). The more extreme parties in the government resent/oppose Barak. The "government" doesn't attack Barak or protest against him but certainly some (extreme/right-wing) political factions in Israel blame him for many things. I don't think he was sent because he's necessarily the best international law expert, but he's a very sharp and widely respected. His being sent while the government is trying to undermine the practices Barak established in the supreme court is a bit weird. Politics.

  • yosefk  1 year ago

    Not exactly. They sent the guy who controls the local judiciary because not doing so would be impossible due to his immense political power. The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself and having given itself the power to cancel any law or demand any changes to laws/policy on any arbitrary basis; since this state of affairs is backed up by a sufficient number of powerful institutions, it is effectively impossible to challenge.

    Barak ruling to resupply the enemy (it is widely documented that "humanitarian aid" goes first and foremost to Hamas) in an international court is entirely consistent with his lifelong tendency to gradually reduce Israeli independence and voters' impact on policy and to increase Israeli compliance to the policy of outside parties, first and foremost the US. (Resupplying the enemy was required by the US from the start. It is interesting to see other examples where civilians are prevented by the international community to leave the area of hostilities and instead they are supposed to be provided with resources in this area where the monopoly on the use of force belongs to one of the sides in the conflict.)

    While the exact requirements placed on Israel by larger powers are somewhat unique, having highly influential people in the country effectively work in the interest of larger powers is a common condition for smaller powers. In this Barak is similar to many other high-profile people and organizations in many other countries enjoying limited sovereignty at best.

    • tguvot  1 year ago

      > The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself

      this is at most lie and at least misconception. Supreme Court Judges are appointed by the President of Israel, from names submitted by the Judicial Selection Committee, which is composed of nine members: three Supreme Court Judges (including the President of the Supreme Court), two cabinet ministers (one of them being the Minister of Justice), two Knesset members, and two representatives of the Israel Bar Association. Appointing Supreme Court Judges requires a majority of 7 of the 9 committee members, or two less than the number present at the meeting.

      4 replies →

    • baybal2  1 year ago

      > The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself and having given itself the power to cancel any law or demand any changes to laws/policy on any arbitrary basis;

      1. Not completely. There are quite a few countries with fully independent judiciary, with judges appointing judges.

      2. Courts with power to initiate, and prosecute a case by themselves also exist in other countries.

ComputerGuru  1 year ago

An important part of Barak’s involvement is the complete recognition of ICJ’s jurisdiction over the matter, which it found (and Barak didn’t disagree) it had.

dragonwriter  1 year ago

> a peculiarity of the ICJ is that each side gets to add a judge, but it doesn't have much effect since there are 17 other judges

There are 15 ICJ judges, plus the two ad hoc judges appointed by the parties.

megous  1 year ago

Notably also voted against telling Israel to follow the raw key prohibitions of Genocide convention as written in the convention, something Israel agreed to in the past. Curious.

Also voted against asking Israel to preserve evidence of the crimes. Interesting perspective for a former judge.

throwaway260124  1 year ago

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