Many people have probably seen the CarShield vehicle service contract commercials on the TV in the US - typically a 'vehicle service plan' written with onerous terms and massive hoops to go through.
After a flood of bad BBB reviews, CarShield successfully sued and settled with the BBB circa 2020, and the stories are (mostly) buried.
I imagine that if a business with a minimum of integrity would run the BBB, they'd get sued to the ground and wouldn't be able to afford a defense without a steady source of revenue.
When an optometrist chose to file a claim against my medical insurance (which did not pay) rather than my vision insurance (which would), the only way I was able to get them to fix it was by filing a complaint with the BBB. Multiple calls with customer service only resulted in "there is nothing we can do to change it", but somehow they figured out how to fix it when they got the BBB complaint letter.
How else can private citizens keep businesses honest? Complaining on the internet only works if you have lots of followers.
> How else can private citizens keep businesses honest?
I know this was a rhetorical question, but in many countries there is some type of Fair Trading Office, meaning a government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements.
> government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements
These would in fact be great thing. The problem being that if this existed and did what it was supposed to do, it would only be a matter of time before Trump appointed someone to either destroy it or weaponize it against perceived enemies.
The bigger question is how can we have a body that can both protect consumers from bad businesses AND can also be itself protected from the purchased political influence of those bad businesses.
That’s exactly right. BBB is Yelp for boomers, and that’s it. I’ve heard plenty of older family and acquaintances wave it around like a weapon: “if they don’t honor my (ridiculous) request, I’ll sic the BBB on them!” And then… what? I’m sure someone, somewhere checks BBB before doing business with a company, but I’ve never personally seen someone do it, and without that feedback loop, the BBB is just another private review site with zero teeth.
There used to be a site many years ago called Bad Business Bureau. And there was a listing for the BBB, "Better Business Bureau", and it was full of complaints. Complaints you would never see on BBB's own website.
I recall paid BBB propaganda being allowed into some schools. Essentially the BBB donates to high school business classes and in return the educators explain it to students but without criticism.
You don't need to be smooth. There are a bajillion businesses of ill repute run by questionable people who will pay to have anybody official sounding say that they're good to go.
BBB is essentially only a negative indicator in that if a business has a terrible BBB reputation, they are probably terrible, but Accreditation or any positive status from the BBB means nothing.
Nah there's a whole multi billion dollar business of trust building review services. Trustpilot, Travel Advisor, G2/Captera/various enterprise SaaS review sites. It's a big business and you are probably not the target audience if you have actual domain knowledge.
Honestly, BBB means nothing to me. I see it and I shrug. Reviews, checking the business out yourself, and using a dozen other cues are more useful than BBB.
Reminds me when I mentioned to my friend's Grandpa that I get AAA just cause I need an IDP and he went onto this big tangent about how he's been a "proud card-carrying AAA member for 40 years" or some such, talked about it like it was a club, he'd meet other members for dinners and whatnot.
I think America was basically a different country before the 90s.
Not GP. One of the things that AAA makes easy is getting an IDP, which is not related to roadside assistance (or vehicle insurance).
IDP is “International Driving Permit”, which is a booklet that certifies that the person has a driving license in <country> for <class of vehicles>. It includes the photo of the person and the date of birth. It includes translation in various languages so that when you’re in another country and rent a vehicle (or drive one) and the police (or enforcers) need to check if you have a valid license, you can show this (as well as your original license, if asked for). Anecdotally, I’ve heard that the process to get it through AAA seems quicker and easier than from the DMV.
It was. I remember taking road trips with the assumption that our destination location would be a very different place. Different accent, styles, restaurants, overall feel.
Many people have probably seen the CarShield vehicle service contract commercials on the TV in the US - typically a 'vehicle service plan' written with onerous terms and massive hoops to go through.
After a flood of bad BBB reviews, CarShield successfully sued and settled with the BBB circa 2020, and the stories are (mostly) buried.
CarShield currently has an A rating by the BBB, in light of this. https://www.bbb.org/us/mo/saint-peters/profile/auto-service-...
https://muddyrivernews.com/top-stories/those-guys-are-shady-... https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/carshield-must-pay...
They also ran "BBBBias.com" for a while on that front - https://web.archive.org/web/20201218125917/https://bbbbias.c...
I imagine that if a business with a minimum of integrity would run the BBB, they'd get sued to the ground and wouldn't be able to afford a defense without a steady source of revenue.
When an optometrist chose to file a claim against my medical insurance (which did not pay) rather than my vision insurance (which would), the only way I was able to get them to fix it was by filing a complaint with the BBB. Multiple calls with customer service only resulted in "there is nothing we can do to change it", but somehow they figured out how to fix it when they got the BBB complaint letter.
How else can private citizens keep businesses honest? Complaining on the internet only works if you have lots of followers.
> How else can private citizens keep businesses honest?
I know this was a rhetorical question, but in many countries there is some type of Fair Trading Office, meaning a government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements.
Depending on where you live your state may actually have one of these, in mine it's in the office of the state Attorney General.
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> government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements
These would in fact be great thing. The problem being that if this existed and did what it was supposed to do, it would only be a matter of time before Trump appointed someone to either destroy it or weaponize it against perceived enemies.
The bigger question is how can we have a body that can both protect consumers from bad businesses AND can also be itself protected from the purchased political influence of those bad businesses.
1 reply →
The BBB complaints list is a glorified internet post. It's not keeping a business any more honest than posting a review on Google or Yelp.
That’s exactly right. BBB is Yelp for boomers, and that’s it. I’ve heard plenty of older family and acquaintances wave it around like a weapon: “if they don’t honor my (ridiculous) request, I’ll sic the BBB on them!” And then… what? I’m sure someone, somewhere checks BBB before doing business with a company, but I’ve never personally seen someone do it, and without that feedback loop, the BBB is just another private review site with zero teeth.
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The person you're responding to literally claims otherwise. Are you calling them a liar or do you have something to substantiate your claims?
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Small claims usually works quite well.
The BBB used to work so well because most people thought they were a government agency. The thought a complaint to the BBB came with actual penalties.
Now a lot more people know that they are basically just the first version of Yelp.
The shadiness of the BBB has come up here before; for instance:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3067731
My interaction with a Chicago hotel with hidden exorbitant fees was useless with the BBB, but gained traction with the state attorney general.
Carving overcharges back is a pleasant thing.
There used to be a site many years ago called Bad Business Bureau. And there was a listing for the BBB, "Better Business Bureau", and it was full of complaints. Complaints you would never see on BBB's own website.
In partial jest, has BBB been known to accreditate themselves?
(A blatantly obvious silicon valley TV show reference)
Once I learned how the BBB worked I regarded them as a kind of bizarre quasi-voluntary protection racket. I wish more people knew about it.
I recall paid BBB propaganda being allowed into some schools. Essentially the BBB donates to high school business classes and in return the educators explain it to students but without criticism.
How did BBB ever get a business off the ground based on paid for acceditation???
Were they just smooth talkers?
You don't need to be smooth. There are a bajillion businesses of ill repute run by questionable people who will pay to have anybody official sounding say that they're good to go.
Yes, same as all the other pay to win "certification" companies.
But... but... I'm one of the World's Most Ethical Companies(tm)!
https://worldsmostethicalcompanies.com/apply-now/
> The application fees for 2026 are:
> For companies operating in 24 or fewer countries the application fee is $3,600
> For companies operating in 25 or more countries the application fee is $4,900
BBB is essentially only a negative indicator in that if a business has a terrible BBB reputation, they are probably terrible, but Accreditation or any positive status from the BBB means nothing.
This is true of most reviews and the internet in general.
People come to complain more than say good things. So take online complaints in that context.
Sounds like a thing of the past
Nah there's a whole multi billion dollar business of trust building review services. Trustpilot, Travel Advisor, G2/Captera/various enterprise SaaS review sites. It's a big business and you are probably not the target audience if you have actual domain knowledge.
Why people trust G2 is beyond me.
They openly allow, and facilitate, vendors bribing you to leave reviews
Honestly, BBB means nothing to me. I see it and I shrug. Reviews, checking the business out yourself, and using a dozen other cues are more useful than BBB.
It’s funny I’ve had to opposite experience as a consumer. I’ve had companies who couldn’t give a single shit finally respond when I left a BBB review.
So I’ve always taken this as a sign of quality. Clearly though, that’s not always the case.
fwiw, I've read it depends on which city you use the BBB. St Louis in particular is considered a quality BBB among a few others.
Reminds me when I mentioned to my friend's Grandpa that I get AAA just cause I need an IDP and he went onto this big tangent about how he's been a "proud card-carrying AAA member for 40 years" or some such, talked about it like it was a club, he'd meet other members for dinners and whatnot.
I think America was basically a different country before the 90s.
I love how AAA is lobbying/positioning itself to basically be a less shitty private DMV where possible.
You don't even need to be a member. Just walk in, show your driver's license, pay $20 or so and walk out with your international drivers permit.
What’s IDP in the context of roadside service insurance?
Not GP. One of the things that AAA makes easy is getting an IDP, which is not related to roadside assistance (or vehicle insurance).
IDP is “International Driving Permit”, which is a booklet that certifies that the person has a driving license in <country> for <class of vehicles>. It includes the photo of the person and the date of birth. It includes translation in various languages so that when you’re in another country and rent a vehicle (or drive one) and the police (or enforcers) need to check if you have a valid license, you can show this (as well as your original license, if asked for). Anecdotally, I’ve heard that the process to get it through AAA seems quicker and easier than from the DMV.
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Maybe International Driving Permit? Our local version of AAA issues them, but you don't have to be a member.
It was. I remember taking road trips with the assumption that our destination location would be a very different place. Different accent, styles, restaurants, overall feel.
Today, it’s almost the same everywhere I go
Yelp is the BBB with the quiet parts out loud.
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