Comment by Igrom
1 day ago
Reading through the comments under this thread, there are many users who swear by a plain text file, but who then build quite a lot of snowflake software to regain functionality offered by more structured TODO applications. That includes:
- having your computer alert you to things that come up
- being able to tag notes
- being able to add events to a calendar
- being able to set priority of tasks
- expecting prioritized/currently relevant tasks to be at the top of the agenda
- being able to add recurring tasks
- full-text search (grepping)
- formatting features (markdown)
Some of the laborious (or, in my opinion, plain unholy) solutions include:
- feeding TODOs to an LLM to filter for the currently relevant ones and send Telegram notifications
- hand-copying currently relevant tasks to the top of the TODO list
- running a script on a VPS to sync notifications
- set up cron job with git commit
- writing post-it notes by hand
I would encourage everyone to try out emacs with org-mode. It takes some time to get used to the editor and its keybindings (though provisions exist for vim users), but _every_ item on the list above is handled out of the box, or is offered through a free and maintained plugin.
The author of the OP claims to have tried _every_ todo app, and has afterwards moved (regressed?) to writing notes in a plain text file, but there is a path extending from this point that the author has not walked yet. I strongly suggest that, especially for people with a computing or technical background, it is an undisputed upgrade. https://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html being the bible, of course.
What this shows to me, as someone who has committed some of the unholy crimes above, is that people want their system, however esoteric, to come naturally to them.
I think reading docs, understanding a new system which someone else has designed, and fitting one's brain into _their_ organisational structure is the hard part. Harder than designing one's own system. It's the reason many don't stick with an off-the-shelf app. Including Org mode.
> What this shows to me, as someone who has committed some of the unholy crimes above, is that people want their system, however esoteric, to come naturally to them
I think this is a vocal minority. Outside of internet comment sections, most everyone I know doesn’t care that much about their todo list software.
The most productive people I ever worked with all had really minimal productivity software. For one person it was a Google doc with nested lists. I know several people who preferred physical sticky notes or 3x5 note cards.
A lot of the people I’ve worked with who built elaborate productivity systems and custom software weren’t all that productive. They seemingly spent as much time doing productivity rituals and rearranging their productivity software stack as they did doing actual work. I count the really heavy Notion users in this category because I’ve recently been pulling my hair out dealing with a couple PMs who think “reorganizing Notion” and adding more rules for Notion is a good use of their time each week.
The most extreme example I remember was the eccentric coworker who was building an AI-powered productivity tool that was supposed to optimize his todo lists and schedule them according to his daily rhythms. He spent so much time working on it that our manager had to remind him daily to stay on track with his real work. He was obsessed with “productivity tooling” but the productivity was secondary.
Not everyone is like this, but it happens a lot.
The real takeaway from your story is that it's easy to stay on task when you're interested in the task. Your coworker just didn't care about his work. But if his work was creating a productivity tool then he'd probably love his work and be productive.
I strongly agree. I think it's a form of procrastinating.
I read about all these complex systems for notes and second brains and whatnot.
All procrastinating imho.
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There’s a now quite dated comment from Merlin Mann: "Joining a Facebook group about productivity is like buying a chair about jogging.”
It’s fuzzy - but my recollection was Mann was a fairly renown productivity influencer (although I guess we wouldn’t have called it that then), who had an apostasy about it all.
On managers side the equivalent is making fancy JIRA workflows with all the fancy fields so that everyone is informed. Makes people annoyed with extra work and that time could be spent just talking to people to understand what's actually happening.
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So much of it is empty productivity, all prepping for the work but never actually doing it.
Like the old joke about the programmers spouse who died a virgin because every night all the programmer did was sit at the edge of the bed talking about how awesome it was going to be when they finally did it.
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I’m very guilty of trying all sorts of productivity software as a form of procrastination. The best one did, in fact, turn out to be index cards and a pencil.
The phhsical copy served an important purpose: it forces you to admit you will never do something and so give up on is. until I die it is safe to assume I will eat 3 meals per day. (It won't be 100% because of sickness but close enough) thus if I'm out of some food I will need a todo list to replace it. However if I never finish the ukuele I've started it won't matter and it is reasonable for me to give up on it.
What I gather is people really like the blank whiteboard. There’s something about Notepad and Excel, the freedom, the linitlessness, of having a blank canvas and being able to do anything.
Todo software is too opinionated. It’s not flexible enough to allow you to break rules. You can’t move things around in a way that allows you to control visual white space between entries. Everything “is something” (a task, an event) vs just being (text.)
The term that comes to mind, and one of my favorite concepts, is "progressive disclosure", which is a concept we really ought to be more mindful of.
One of the perks of just-a-text-file-with-a-bunch-of-addons is that it enables progressive disclosure - it takes no learning curve to just get in and use the tool on a basic level, but additional complexity (and power) can be introduced over time.
The problem with a purpose-built app is that there's a minimum level of new concepts to learn before the tool is even minimally useful, and that's a barrier to adoption.
A good example of this in action is something like Markdown. It's just text and will show up fine without you learning anything, but as you pick up more syntax it builds on top - and if you learn some markup syntax but not others, it doesn't prevent you from using the subset you know. There is a clear path to adding new knowledge and ability.
Right, instead of fomo over not using the extra features of utilizing the right flow - people tend to experience the want/need to incrementally increase complexity when using roll-your-own software
Ya, I don't need my todo list to have "docs" at all.
The whole point of org-mode is that it's so malleable, that you can extend it to be whatever you want it to be, much easier than writing your own, ad-hoc, bug-ridden reimplementation of org-mode.
Org-mode is the most appropriate answer. It is as simple or as sophisticated as we want it to be.
Obviously one needs to be an Emacs user first
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When you start structuring your TODO list, you will miss adding stuff that isn't easy to fit into the structure to said list.
And possibly regret it 3 months later...
Also, if you are a developer by trade a lot of these features are quick and easy to implement.
And might even be fun to implement and maintain.
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Exactly. Most people wish they could customize their Todo app or system to their specific preference or need, but have no way of making it happen. Devs can, so they do.
What's interesting is AI is going to change this. Entering a prompt for an app that has all the features you want is already pretty trivial, and will only get better.
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I think in part because larger systems aren't typically custom made to the user's exact workflow (especially because users don't typically have one single workflow anyway!). So not only do I have to get into someone else's mind, but it feels ill-fitted to my own mind. Thus, it's also more inefficient.
Systems you design yourself for yourself naturally will come easier to us.
Yep, at the risk of repeating what you said: I think this is why so many project management / todo apps exist with their own flavor of the very basics. It's a reflection of those wishes that feel natural to us individually, and it just so happens many of these apps mesh well with our model of thinking and organizing.
This is also why it's so difficult to get teams on the same page about project management in their respective workplaces.
> who then build quite a lot of snowflake software
So close! People building snowflake software is a consequence of it not being a generalizable problem, not the cause of it. Everyone organizes their notes/todos differently, and though the variations may seem slight, they are best solved by a blunt and unopinionated tool.
> It takes some time to get used to
Non-starter. A text file is the hammer of the digital world
> - having your computer alert you to things that come up
If my own experience is a valid example, alerts are overrated. They don't work for long. I hate getting interrupted by something that actually does not need my attention at that precise moment. I would disable those alerts in no time.
I prefer leaving physical cues in the real world. I think screens are bad UI unless you already spend way too much time in front of them.
The god old in- and out- baskets are great, for example. Or notes on a physical board.
Sometimes when I think of something I want to do in the morning, I just leave an object that does not belong in a place I will definitely have to use in the morning. Seeing that object will remind me of that thought I had just before going to bed. I don't even need to write down what it was.
Physical cues are wonderful! And THAT is what I would want from Augmented Reality (in addition to it no longer requiring cumbersome hardware to wear). A flexible recreation of former physical work places, but using the new flexibility of computer augmentation of what I see. To be able to place digital notes in the real world. To view and touch documents not fixed in a single place in front of me, but anywhere! I put some documents on the left, some on the right, some on the wall, and I move my body around to view and use them.
A purely screen-based app, when I already hate having to stare straight ahead for hours every day just doesn't cut it for me. I want my digital world to be in the real world, and use my entire body, not just very limited arm and hand movements while barely moving the head because the viewport is just one small two-dimensional rectangle in my large reality.
Okay, that went slightly OT, but I made that point because it is relevant for TODOs and most interactions with computers. I think they are much better when tied to our real world, not inside a tiny screen where a lot of stuff is already squeezed in and waiting for our attention, and everything can only be used like a surgeon doing keyhole surgery - indirectly through a tiny port and tools, instead of ones hands. Place TODO hints in the real world on or near appropriate places.
> Physical cues are wonderful!
You would love this project! https://littlesignals.withgoogle.com/
"Little Signals considers new patterns for technology in our daily lives. The six objects in the series keep us in the loop, but softly, moving from the background to foreground as needed.
Each object has its own communication method, like puffs of air or ambient sounds. Additionally, their simple movements and controls bring them to life and respond to changing surroundings and needs."
I've been wanting to build these since the project came out, but never found the time. Has anyone else here built them with success? I'd love to hear your story about how you used them!
I think the key part is to use alerts for stuff you can't ignore. Time to pick up the kids, fifteen minutes to get ready for a meeting, your compile just failed, etc.
Unfortunately every piece of software seems to think its message about some new feature you don't care about and will never use is worth crapping all the main premise of what alerts are for.
I geeked out a bit, after reading another blog post, and used my thermal printer for this. I've been using it for a few weeks now. The little sticky notes it makes are great.
https://joeldare.com/trying-to-stop-procrastination-with-my-...
I am starting to collect too many of them though. I kinda like the idea of ops text-file because it is renewed from day to day. I'm still not quite sure how to deal with the items I know I need to get to eventually but that I won't get to today. I'm also not sure how to deal with the pile growing continually.
I have noticed that thermal notes fade relatively quickly. When they do that I have to think about weather I want to reprint them or just throw them out.
The recent HN thread on receipt printers for task tracking had this comment which I wish got some attention and replies:
"The biggest killer for any task tracker I find is an accumulating backlog of items that seem too important to quit but too intractable to make progress on." - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44270076
(I suspect that’s part of too many browser tabs hanging around, too)
I came across a similar post on YouTube; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg45b8UXoZI - it's titled "I Fixed My ADHD with a Receipt Printer".
I should build one that sends me an SMS message instead. So I stumbled on AT+ plus code for programing GSM devices. I have a MTN HUAWEI E303 modem from back in 2016 and I wrote a server using the npm serialport module.
I just need to write a dmenu script that pipes from every 3 git commits.
That should keep my monkey brain hooked for a while he he.
└── Dey well
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I've seen mention of using the dot matrix printers common in restaurant kitchens as an alternative which doesn't fade; they have the added benefit of two-color printing (most do black and red)
Yeah the thermal printer one made the rounds here too, I've been curious to see how it's been going the last couple months for the people that adopted it.
Digitizing your real world environment sounds similar to using a special TODO app instead of a text file.
What benefit does your digital sticky note have over a physical one?
It’s readable. My handwriting is awful.
Alerts are most important, that's why paper doesn't work for me. I just write everything in my calender app in my phone.
Taks tracking is different from reminders. There’s actually few things that I want to be reminded of, and they either belongs to a calendar (collaborative items) or a reminder app. The separation is blurry and they can all fits within the agenda concept.
As for tasks tracking, it’s all lists. And a daily/weekly/monthly review is enough for me.
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But if it's AR you can have a cute hamster run up to you and holding an urgent note. Or the hare from Alice in Wonderland. And it can just sit on your desk (virtually) and do cute things while you continue to finish what you were working on. Better than a boring annoying beeping alarm.
We have not even started combining digital an real world, and the last few idea, e.g. from Meta, were devoid of anything useful, showing how little actually useful imagination some super-rich have, putting so many resources into bad or even destructive ideas when sooo much useful stuff needs to happen. We still have this tiny viewport, behind which another world - our digital world - awaits, and people think it's normal that we use this tiny port and awkward indirect devices (mouse) to manipulate things in there. We could do soooo much better soon!
Okay, the access device still is missing. Few people want to wear the current generation of AR devices. But that just shows that neuro-computer interface needs investment on the level of AI, it's not magic (actual neurons are just very complex to work with, never mind finding the right one's to connect to), we could slowly build something there.
Somebody asked what the advantage is of having this computerized instead of actual matter, e.g. physical paper notes. It's all the general computer advantages of course, like sharing stuff. Never mind being able to reorganize everything in an instant.
Imagine having a software project not viewed with one tiny viewport, but like a physical project, even over several rooms. You don't need to click, you go to the place representing some module and physically (virtually physically) take out the code, edit with your fingers. Watch the data flow around you. Have a bunch of flying piranhas show up when something goes wrong. Work with all your body in a real 3D space instead of sitting in a chair all day, all week, all month, all life, watching that vast digital world and/or just your project through that tiny viewport.
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You give a long list of features that I don't want. And then go on to encourage everyone to switch text editors, and adopt a specific plugin that happens to work in the way that you personally like.
As a vim user, this is kind of what I have come to expect from emacs users. Honestly, I'm glad that you've found something that works well for you. But I hope that some day you internalize the fact that other people aren't you, and they shouldn't always be "encouraged" to give up their existing solutions to do things in the way that you've decided is perfect.
Don’t switch text editors, and don’t use a plugin.
For a few years I used Orgmode. I didn’t use Emacs. That is, when I needed to edit text files, I used Vim or macOS TextEdit. I used Orgmode to track my tasks and keep notes. That Emacs was underneath it was purely incidental, and I didn’t use Emacs for anything else. For me, Orgmode was not a plugin. It was the primary software I used, and there was this Emacs thing under it.
Ironically, these days I do actually use Emacs, and I use OmniFocus for tasks, mostly because OmniFocus gets multi-device sync right so it’s worth the price. But don’t hesitate to use Orgmode even if you don’t want Emacs otherwise.
And now you encounter the issue of, "a long list of features that I don't want".
It is hard to sell someone on a solution to a problem that they don't have.
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> As a vim user, this is kind of what I have come to expect from emacs users.
I'm a vim user, with two exceptions:
1. SLIME
2. Org mode
There's a vim plugin for org mode that I used to use, but TBH, Emacs excels at org mode.
> There's a vim plugin for org mode that I used to use, but TBH, Emacs excels at org mode.
Which one did you use? I use https://nvim-orgmode.github.io/ and am happy with it, it's fairly modern written as a lua script.
I did see an older one https://github.com/jceb/vim-orgmode but i don't think that's maintained anymore.
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You didn’t need to go all tribalistic mate.
I think the OP is far from saying what you are implying. He is not advocating for changing text editor or installing any plugins. Just recommends trying out org mode. I think is very valid. I’ve known many many people (in the order of hundreds) that use vi for editing in general but emacs for other tasks, e.g. org mode, sbcl repl, etc. I think the suggestion ist just to give org mode a try. No need to feel offended or pushed to leave your favorite editor. At the end, is all about personal preference.
To quote the OP:
I would encourage everyone to try out emacs with org-mode. It takes some time to get used to the editor and its keybindings...
He's literally recommending that everyone who doesn't use emacs should install and use a different text editor.
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Obsidian is my happy medium. Does many of the above while also doubling as my journalling tool.
lmao, got me feeling self-conscious about something i literally just built for myself but am considering opening up to others to use
https://i.imgur.com/OGFuGcP.png
I think using org mode is way overkill. If someone wants to do pros tastination dressed up as emacs-gardening, it may be a good option.
The best todo app ideally should be a smartphone app, which you'd have always with you. I think Microsoft Todo is a good choice for Android. It is mostly functional, free of cost and does not have any ads.
A lot of this is solved by todo.txt format ( https://github.com/todotxt/todo.txt )
There are apps that support it on many platforms and it is easy to sync across devices.
Sometimes I like to imagine early people inventing, forgetting about and inventing the wheel again.
Now that I think about it that probably actually happened, considering the large distances between groups.
I think the reason people use text file + "snowflake software" is that they want just the structure (constraints) they want, and no more. BTW, what people want changes over time and by circumstance.
org mode has a lot of features, including customizability, but imposes some heavy constraints as well. By its nature it's only going to satisfy a sliver of the people who have come around to text file.
It's good you linked that document, though. At a glance it gives a fair idea of what you'd be buying in to.
Apple's Reminders app does all of those things and many more without having to learn emacs
I found Reminders to be unreliable and foolishly designed. It only works for must-do tasks. It uses repeating-period instead of time-since, so it can't handle repeating tasks that are optional. If you fail to mark off a repeating task, the next instances stack up and crash the notification cycle.
I'm familiar with the pain point you're describing. In general, I would say a recurring calendar event is a better solution for your particular preferences. Personally my mental model is that the act of deciding to not do an optional task constitutes completion of the reminder for that occurrence. And if I forget or deprioritize that decision, the reminder still hangs out in my Today list until I do as a mitigation.
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Ironically the Reminders app sucks at reminding. I use the Clock app for my todo list; it makes a pretty loud noise pretty reliably, which makes it pretty good for reminders.
Reminders is not the job of a todo app, it is the job of a calendar app. For a todo there is no now, it is pick the best thing todo next. I need to be interupted for my dentist appointment. However I don't need to be interupted to buy milk, I need a remineer when I'm at the store anyway to also get milk. If the reminder was 'i see you are going in the direction of a store: we need milk if you have time to stop' that would work.
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Being pedantic, based on your example, I think the Reminders app does a good job at reminding, but a bad job at alerting. But that’s because a reminder to me is a gentle concept.
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I believe the Reminders app, when used alongside Notes and Calendar, is becoming a strong competitor in the productivity space. One feature I'd love to see added is persistent nudging reminders that keep alerting you until you manually dismiss them.
Things 3 is another excellent third-party option in this category. Together, these apps form my essential productivity stack. I honestly can't function without them.
Yeah I think this is a result of the attention economy, there are 75 million notifications per day that someone somewhere wants to push in your face so we've gotten really good at cutting them out. But the counter-swing is also too big and now critical things like calendars and reminders are buried in a list we never look at.
I agree it would be nice to have more alarm-like notification options. Flagging, setting as high priority, and assigning a date/time and getting in the habit of checking the Today category regularly all help mitigate; a bug-me-until-this-is-done feature would be a welcome alternative. (I will note that the GP's emacs stack isn't even close to offering native mobile push notifications, to state the obvious.)
"Reminders" is maybe the most poorly named app of all time. The last thing it does is remind you of anything.
Reminders.app does a great job when I want create lists and inventories! I use it for groceries and webpages too. For example, I've sent many of the Emacs-related links to my Emacs list in Reminders, where I know I'll be able to find them the next time I forget Gall's Law and look for a more-complex system to replace my current one: writing things down; thinking about what I've written; redrafting; and repeating.
Most of this is solved by: todo list in one file. One list. Use markdown. Try Obsidian. Read Randy Pausch last lecture. Look at his todo list. Copy that. Use a calendar if it is time sensitive. Look at your todo list often. Want to be fancy? Have an inbox file that is also a list. Your backlog is stuff that moves down to priorities other than 1. Try the Covey quadrants for your task priorities. Don’t over complicate this.
You can make an art form out of procrastinating on real tasks to create the most perfect todo system ever. We got LLMs now. It can query your text file, categorize, etc.
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To add a different perspective, I love Emacs Org-mode for note taking but gave up on it for task management after a couple of years. Not because the tool is inadequate – my attempts at Todoist or Taskwarrior didn’t fare any better – but because the GTD-style workflow just doesn’t fit my personality.
I’ve now happily used a paper-based bullet journal instead, and am about to transition to a Rocketbook for this use.
The problem is that a GTD-style workflow requires a lot of discipline to stick to daily/weekly reviews, where you prune or reschedule tasks, and it requires you to be strict about deleting tasks you’ll never do. If not, you just get an endlessly growing list of stale tasks, and for me personally the list becomes so associated with guilt and stress that I just burn out and get paralyzed unless I regularly throw it all out and start from scratch. (Is "TODO bankruptcy" a thing?)
Surprisingly, this led me to the conclusion that being able to forget tasks is crucial for me to remain focused, productive, and mentally stable. Being able to start each day with a blank page, write or transfer tasks that I can realistically do today, and letting the unimportant ones silently disappear on old pages without having to consciously delete them, somehow works better for me.
For notes however, Org-mode is great. I’ve found great value in rediscovering old ideas and knowledge 5 years later, whereas finding 5 year old undone tasks is rarely something I want.
Too many programmers think they have a unique use case without considering that maybe the existing projects are bloated for a reason. Then they end up just recreating the same bloat.
Gall's Law:
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over with a working simple system.
Gall's Law almost always deserves to be repeated and higher up in HN threads, and this is another instance where I wish I could upvote more than once.
Here, Gall's Law provides an accurate explanation for why so many of us have returned to paper, pencil, and brain cells. It is also apropos of your comment's sibling comment regarding how tech folks frequently and mistakenly believe that they can improve on a solution that has worked well for thousands of years of human civilization (e.g., paper + writing instrument + human thought) in just a few weeks. For all the talk of Emacs's being relatively ancient and mature software, handwriting is orders of magnitude more mature and sanded down.
With software to "solve" the problems of thinking, remembering, linking ideas, or deciding what to do … now you have two problems, as we say.
"Surely I can do it better in a few weeks than all preceding civilizational knowledge" is probably the most popular tech entrepreneur stereotype.
The existing projects probably have crap docs then. If I build it myself at least I’m likely to understand it.
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Do I need to start living in Emacs to get these benefits? Or are you saying I can use Emacs as my todo list app, close it after writing a todo, and have it pop up notifications?
https://github.com/doppelc/org-notifications is a thing if you want that.
Emacs will happily run in the background.
I've known folks who used Emacs for writing and org-mode, but didn't live in it otherwise.
But living in Emacs is more the sort of thing you get to do, not the sort of thing you'd need to do ;)
Yes, with a little setup. But never forget that org-mode is the gateway drug of Emacs.
You start using it for the agenda and TODO lists, learn it has spreadsheet functionality that ties in with the arbitrary-precision calculator, start taking notes and exporting them to PDF via LaTeX, writing reports in it with your company letterhead, merging your contacts list, migrating your email into Emacs, and next thing you know you find yourself fifteen pairs of parentheses deep in a custom elisp function that tweaks the date format for that one manager that insists on yy/dd/mm whenever you send your weekly progress report.
Not that I'd know anything about that.
No. I hate emacs but orgmode is still a good file format.
I use orgzly revived with it.
Org mode could do with a bigger non emacs ecosystem, though.
"Copy-pasting tasks is laborious"
"I recommend people read this 30,000 word technical guide"
Lmao
All that you write is not necessary for me.
I use a plain text app on phone for TODOs. I hate notifications, do not use full text search.
I have been using it for 5 years now and I hate the notes apps with their clunky buttons, limiting software, where you cannot write or do what you want to.
I see apps often as regressions toward freedom of note apps.
You do understand that org-mode is plain text, yes? You are basically losing nothing, if you write an org mode file. You don't even have to use org syntax. The point is you can and you can do things faster, if you do. Like inserting a new heading, or changing the order of text blocks, or inserting a quote or a table.
> I would encourage everyone to try out emacs with org-mode.
You can even do that, _and_ do stuff from your unholy list.
I have my org folder synced via syncthing to every device I care about. I used to do automated git commits on that folder, but eventually stopped it years ago as commit messages like "daily automated commit" are not better than regular backups.
But thanks to LLMs I went back to that - now I have a systemd timer which calls a script that calls Emacs (because I have all the LLM bindings set up in there already) with the git diff to generate a commit message. That does a pretty good job at summarising my changes.
I feel the same way. I landed on Evernote rather than org-mode, but it similarly provides all these features out of the box, while letting me largely customize my setup. (I basically do GTD with a notebook for each priority level.)
Was regretting it a bit in the 2020-2023 range when Evernote was going downhill, but it's improved a fair amount since the acquisition. Almost (but not quite) to the point where I'd recommend it to others again.
What I would recommend is spending the time to learn some system beyond just a text file. I've ultimately found it well worth it, to the extent that I couldn't imagine going back now. It is definitely an investment up front though.
Combining the feel of plain text with real structure is also exactly why we're building an "IDE but for tasks/notes" [1].
With structured apps (task managers, outliners) you lose the illusion of editing plain text, but plain text alone lacks things like structure, links, dates, and collaboration. We've spent the last few years building an editor completely from scratch to keep the ease of text editing while adding planning and structure.
[1] https://thymer.com
I like caldav instead with todoman. Allows me to use reminder/whatever on my phone, sync with fastmail and also have my CLI todo list.
Todoist does all of that and more, basically any reminders app does most of that.
Just a counterpoint to say, many of us look for a todo app, use one of the many great ones on the market and then don't write blog posts about it. It's worth just trying one of the many existing apps instead of building your own.
So my current pet project is a to-do system with an app that you can look at, edit, or complete tasks in. But I have both a fully agentic interface and simpler LLM powered inputs.
I'm really enjoying it. I think it is a good example of how to leverage LLMs to reduce drudgery.
Things I can do now: - take a picture of a notice like a license renewal and a task is created and automatically filled with due dates and information extracted from the image and likely from online searches.
- turn a design document into a reasonable task plan.
- create classified and researched tasks with a sentence.
I'm just getting started on it but it already is kind of feature complete. Programmed with Claude Code, about 20k lines.
The key I think is to have something as easy to input as a text file, because it applies intelligence to remove friction.
I think one thing that is missing from emacs/org-mode is the mobile integration. There are apps that handle some features of org-mode on mobile, but probably missing features of the desktop version. Currently, I manage my notes only on the desktop because I haven't found a good companion on mobile.
If you have Android, emacs is now officially supported on Android (https://f-droid.org/packages/org.gnu.emacs). Along with https://github.com/Julow/Unexpected-Keyboard, it turns out to be a pretty usable (assuming you are the type that is okay working with emacs in general). I am now in search of a simple way to sync notes between my phone and computer (without using Big Tech solutions).
> I am now in search of a simple way to sync notes between my phone and computer (without using Big Tech solutions).
Syncthing?
I'm in the process of doing most of this via Claude check-ins, using a combination of MCP, Obsidian, and Things. Obsidian is the memory system, context info, and archive, while Things hosts the active lists and desktop widgets. It doesn't work perfectly or even that well, but it's coming along.
from James Hague's blog https://prog21.dadgum.com/56.html:
8<---------------------
I still like to implement my own ideas, especially in fun languages like Erlang and Perl. I'm glad I can program, because personal programming in the small is fertile ground and tremendously useful. For starters, this entire site is generated by 269 lines of commented Perl, including the archives and the atom feed (and those 269 lines also include some HTML templates). Why? Because it was pleasant and easy, and I don't have to fight with the formatting and configuration issues of other software. Writing concise to-the-purpose solutions is a primary reason for programming in the twenty-first century.
Text files are too basic, I'm a spreadsheet TODO fella
Not so fast my dear, just this year I finally adopted the default home-directory structure of my linux distro (Document, Pictures, Music, Video, etc.) in my workflow. I'm not ready for more big obvious changes like this. ;)
Am i the only one to generally find those directories getting in the way ? I have very few videos or music, or even images worth storing as images and not related to other documents. Downloads and documents might be useful but then, documents is almost everything that is not online so why not put it in $HOME. And I don't like capitalized folders but that's me.
I 'hated' this too for a long time, but I finally gave in. It now also matches my backup workflow perfectly. And now I don't have to tweak that much after installing a new distro. Sometimes my tools have to adapt to me, sometimes I adapt a little to my tools.
Nope, I've hated those for years. Seriously, capitalized directory names?
I put my media files in other folders, just to spite Microsoft
I hate the default directory names, and like you I hate the capitalisation — fortunately they can be overridden.
I have used emacs for more than 30 years, use it as a primary code editor now, and I have never found use of org-mode, despite a few attempts, to become a lasting habit. Of the list of integrations provided here, I only see alert and calendar support being of interest (but because of this, I may give org-mode one more try).
> many users who swear by a plain text file, but who then build quite a lot of snowflake software
The most robust, stable solution for me has been to use foundational tools with proven longevity:
= bash
= git
= ncal
https://github.com/viviparous/showcal.git
Im perfectly happy with markdown in vscode. Right next to my work and with a search function. I guess I could do txt but the syntax highlighting makes things a bit more readable.
I think it works for me because it's mostly just a working memory. I virtually never visit my notes again. It is not some personal knowledge base nor project tracker.
Same and if I need to share a bit often times I just highlight it and tell an LLM to blast out a markdown table, render preview and screenshot it to someone.
This satisfied me for awhile, eventually though I wanted a more comprehensive solution to record todo notes alongside thoughts and project ideas, so I escaped my IDE and got a simple obsidian setup going. I can definitely recommend
Yeah it definitely doesnt scale for every use case. It has been enough for me.
I think a lot of your examples demonstrate the power and low learning curve of a single text file as an organizing tool.
Org mode is one direction you could take your text file in. Feeding your text file into an LLM or committing it to git or formatting with Markdown are others. But starting with a plain text file doesn’t commit you to any of those paths.
How about having a synced and editable version of your to-do list on all your devices, including mobile? I've found that to be the main filter for note taking setups. You seem to suggest that there's an emacs plug-in that can handle that?
As somone who uses text and paper for todos, happily for years now after spending equally much time procrastinating in search of the perfect task management system I will now do a half-ironic take on answering your points:
> having your computer alert you to things that come up
That's what the calendar or the alarm is for
> being able to tag notes
Write #tag and then grep for it. Not that hard
> being able to add events to a calendar
A event isn't a todo, you add it to the calendar instead
> being able to set priority of tasks
Cut it and paste it up to the top or write "IMPORTANT". If you have so many tasks that you need something better, you probably spend too much time organizing your todos and should start working
> expecting prioritized/currently relevant tasks to be at the top of the agenda
If your todo lists are so long thst you cant read them in 30 seconds they are too long. Split them up and mive them to the relevant project.
> being able to add recurring tasks
Just leave it in the list and add a questionmark at the end. If it is time critical add it to the calendar
> full-text search (grepping)
Yeah, good observation you can grep text pretty fine. If you're annoyed by having to type the filename that is a shell oneliner
- formatting features (markdown)
You can use markdown in text, it is just more or less useless wothout rendering. But I don't see how formatting leads to more productivity
> feeding TODOs to an LLM to filter out the currently relevant ones and send Telegram notifications
Yeah ok, that one is bad.
> hand-copying currently relevant tasks to the top of the TODO list
Get a decent texteditor where you can press modifiers + arrow keys to move lines. Works pretty well. In fact better/faster than dragging with your mouse.
> running a script on a VPS to sync notifications
No need to do that, you have a calendar
> set up cron job with git commit
If you need your todos in a git you either work at a nuclear facility, a space station or you take yourself too seriously
> writing post-it notes by hand
What else would you use, a typewriter? Just kidding. Paper has undeniable strengths for the todo space. It is there and you don't have to remember to open it. Rewriting your todos is doubling as both checking their state, refreshing your memory and cleaning them up. Paper can be read without electricity and by other people without any form of setup. People know how to use it without onboarding. Hackers cannot use a flaw in the the paper has been made to gwin remote code execution (they can however potentially use photographs of paper to do so).
I am not kidding, one of the best work-handoffs I ever had was entirely organized via emails and post its. It worked flawlessly.
And I say that as someone who has spent days on todo systems, task warrior and the likes. Everybody has their own needs, but very often boring and pragmatic wins.
Very well said. People here are interested in poking holes in things, instead of actually being productive. Again, we should just look at what actually productive people tend to do, which in my experience is generally to just use whatever works and not spend too much time thinking about optimising todo systems.
In my experience the most productive people I've met have secretaries.
I finally hired one two months ago for 500 bucks a month and it was a life changing increase in productivity and decrease in stress.
Just wait until I tell you that the reason people have done all of that work is because it is a satisfying form of procrastination.
> but _every_ item on the list above is handled out of the box, or is offered through a free and maintained plugin.
Which one writes post-it notes for you?
please accept that some of us need to re-invent emacs with org-mode from first principles, to fully appreciate it
Because it’s never about finding the good or good enough or even the perfect system of something. It’s about the itch!
Emacs is the unholiest of them all.
I don't do anything that you mentioned.
I truly just use a plain .txt file. Every "add-on" and layer beyond the .txt happens to run on a complex wetware device that came built-in with my body.
>Every "add-on" and layer beyond the .txt happens to run on a complex wetware device that came built-in with my body.
He was addressing the comments such as mine that determined a txt file without any runtime software layered on was not enough for some people. The built-in wetware was inadequate.
Apparently, you are one of the lucky ones that can just use a txt file. For others, they need a little more support apparatus ("bicycle for the mind") enabled by some type of active app that complements the TODO.txt file.
If people want an excellent todo list system that's essentially infinitely customizable but still approachable for basic productivity, org mode is good.
The mobile experience is somewhat lacking but good enough with Orgzly on Android.
However with org mode I had the same issue I had with all my to-do list systems, wherein I tended to record too many todos. I needed granular prioritization and gtd contexts and scheduled and deadlines and repeaters to keep track of it all. I needed to install org super agenda to get useful views.
I switched to trillium and nuked 90% of my todos in the migration as out of date or just kinda vague things that'd be nice to do and chucked those into a future projects note. Trillium's to-do UX is slightly better than a markdown document because you can click to check the boxes, that's about it. It's high friction. I have to go to today's note, go to the Todo section, and then put my to-do in the list. Or the week Todo section, or month or year.
What I've found is now I actually do all my to-dos because now they're all actually worth doing. I'm not scrabbling down every single thing and cluttering up my list.
how exactly is a .txt not greppable?
All of this is BS and not important. No one goes through 20 high priority meetings or tasks a day. It's one and maximum 3.
If you need an ALERT for something important, it likely isn't important in the first place.
That's more because Emacs is an OS-within-an-editor, which imho is not a good thing.
It's a portable Lisp environment that just happens to have an editor as its default application. I know it's advertised as an editor, but that's like saying a web browser is a website viewer.