Comment by trod1234

3 days ago

Mathematics pedagogy today is in a pretty sorrowful state due to bad actors and willful blindness at all levels that require public trust.

A dominant majority in public schools starting late 1970s seems to follow the "Lying to Children" approach which is often mistakenly recognized as by-rote teaching but are based in Paulo Freire's works that are in turn based on Mao's torture discoveries from the 1950s.

This approach contrary to classical approaches leverages torturous process which seems to be purposefully built to fracture and weed out the intelligent individual from useful fields, imposing sufficient thresholds of stress to impose PTSD or psychosis, selecting for and filtering in favor of those who can flexibly/willfully blind/corrupt themselves.

Such sequences include Algebra->Geometry->Trigonometry where gimmicks in undisclosed changes to grading cause circular trauma loops with the abandonment of Math-dependent careers thereafter, similar structures are also found in Uni, for Economics, Business, and Physics which utilize similar fail-scenarios burning bridges where you can't go back when the failure lagged from the first sequence, and you passed the second unrelated sequence. No help occurs, inducing confusion and frustration to PTSD levels, before the teacher offers the Alice in Wonderland Technique, "If you aren't able to do these things, perhaps you shouldn't go into a field that uses it". (ref Kubark Report, Declassified CIA Manual)

Have you been able to discern whether these "patterns" as you've called them aren't just the practical reversion to the classical approach (Trivium/Quadrivium)? Also known as the first-principles approach after all the filtering has been done.

To compare: Classical approaches start with nothing but a useful real system and observations which don't entrench false assumptions as truth, which are then reduced to components and relationships to form a model. The model is then checked for accuracy against current data to separate truth from false in those relationships/assertions in an iterative process with the end goal being to predict future events in similar systems accurately. The approach uses both a priori and a posteriori components to reasoning.

Lying to Children reverses and bastardizes this process. It starts with a single useless system which contains equal parts true and false principles (as misleading assumptions) which are tested and must be learned to competency (growing those neurons close together). Upon the next iteration one must unlearn the false parts while relearning the true parts (but we can't really unlearn, we can only strengthen or weaken) which in turn creates inconsistent mental states imposing stress (torture). This is repeated in an ongoing basis often circular in nature (structuring), and leveraging psychological blindspots (clustering), with several purposefully structured failings (elements) to gatekeep math through torturous process which is the basis for science and other risky subject matter. As the student progresses towards mastery (gnosis), the systems become increasingly more useful. One must repeatedly struggle in their sessions to learn, with the basis being if you aren't struggling you aren't learning. This mostly uses a faux a priori reasoning without properties of metaphysical objectivity (tied to objective measure, at least not until the very end).

If you don't recognize this, an example would be the electrical water pipe pressure analogy. Diffusion of charge in-like materials, with Intensity (Current) towards the outermost layer was the first-principled approach pre-1978 (I=V/R). The Water Analogy fails when the naive student tries to relate the behavior to pressure equations that ends up being contradictory at points in the system in a number of places introducing stumbling blocks that must be unlearned.

Torture being the purposefully directed imposition of psychological stress beyond a individuals capacity to cope towards physiological stages of heightened suggestability and mental breakdown (where rational thought is reduced or non-existent in the intelligent).

It is often recognized by its characteristic subgroups of Elements (cognitive dissonance, a lack of agency to remove oneself and coercion/compulsion with real or perceived loss or the threat thereof), Structuring (circular patterns of strictness followed by leniency in a loop, fractionation), and Clustering (psychological blindspots).

Wait, the electrical pipe water analogy is actually a very good one and it's quite difficult to find edge cases where it breaks down in a way that would confuse a student. There are some (for example, there's no electrical equivalent of Reynold's number or turbulence, and flow resistance varies differently with pipe diameter than wire diameter, and no good equivalent for Faraday's law) but I don't think these are likely to cause confusion. It even captures nuance like inductance, capacitance, and transmission line behaviour.

  • As I recall, my systems dynamics textbook even explicitly drew parallels between different domains like electricity and hydrodynamics. You're right that the counterparts aren't generally perfect especially at the edges but the analogies are often pretty good.

  • Intuitively it fails in making an equivalence to area which is an unrelated dimensional unit, as two lengths multiplied together equaling resistance, as well as the skin-effect related to Intensity/Current which is why insulation/isolation of wires are incredibly important.

    The classical approach used charge diffusion iirc, and you can find classical examples of this in Oliver Heaviside's published works (archive.org iirc). He's the one that simplified Maxwell's 20+ equations down to the small number we use today.

> Lying to Children reverses and bastardizes this process. It starts with a single useless system which contains equal parts true and false principles (as misleading assumptions) which are tested and must be learned to competency (growing those neurons close together).

Can you provide some concrete examples of it?

  • Not OP, and it was a couple decades ago, but I certainly remember professors and teachers saying things like "this isn't really how X works, but we will use the approximation for now in order to teach you this other thing". That is if you were lucky, most just taught you the wrong (or incomplete) formula.

    I think there is validity to the approach but sciences would be much, much improved if taught more like history lessons. Here is how we used to think about gravity, here's the formula and it kind of worked, except... Here is planetary orbits that we used to use when we assumed they had to be circles. Here's how the data looked and here's how they accounted for it...

    This would accomplish two goals - learning the wrong way for immediate use (build on sand) and building an innate understanding of how science actually progresses. Too little focus is on how we always create magic numbers and vague concepts (dark matter, for instance) to account for structural problems we have no good answer for.

    Being able to "sniff the fudge" would be a super power when deciding what to write a PhD on, for instance. How much better would science be if everyone strengthened this muscle throughout their educatuon?

  • I included the water pipe analogy for electric theory, that is one specific example.

    Also, In Algebra I've seen a flawed version of mathematical operations being taught that breaks down with negative numbers under multiplication (when the correct way is closed over multiplication). The tests were supposedly randomized (but seemed to target low-income demographics). The process is nearly identical, but the answers ultimately not correct. The teachers graded on the work to the exclusion of the correct answer. So long as you showed the correct process expected in Algebra you passed without getting the right answer. Geometry was distinct and unrelated, and by Trigonometry the class required correct process and answer. You don't find out there is a problem until Trigonometry, and the teacher either doesn't know where the person is failing comprehension, or isn't paid to reteach a class they aren't paid for but you can't go back.

    I've seen and heard horror stories of students where they'd failed Trig 7+ times at the college level, and wouldn't have progressed if not for a devoted teacher helping them after-hours (basically correcting and reteaching Algebra). These kids literally would break out in a cold PTSD sweat just hearing the associated words related to math.

    • I did some tutoring in a non-engineering graduate masters program and some folks were just lost. Simple things like what a graph is or how to solve an equation. I really did try but it's sort of hard to teach fairly easy high school algebra (with maybe some really simple derivatives to find maxima and minima) in grad school.

  • I'd love an example too, and an example of the classical system that this replaced. I'm willing to believe the worst of the school system, but I'd like to understand why.

    • The classical system was described, but you can find it in various historic works based on what's commonly referred to today as the Trivium and Quadrivium based curricula.

      Off the top of my head, the former includes reasoning under dialectical (priori and later posteriori parts under the quadrivium).

      Its a bit much to explain it in detail in a post like this but you should be able to find sound resources with what I've provided.

      It largely goes back to how philosophy was taught; all the way back to Socrates/Plato/Aristotle, up through Descartes, Locke (barely, though he's more famous for social contract theory), and more modern scientists/scientific method.

      The way math is taught today, you basically get to throw out almost everything you were taught at various stages, and relearn it anew on a different foundation, somehow fitting the fractured pieces back together towards learning the true foundations, which would be much easier at the start and building on top of that instead of the constant interference.

      You don't really end up understanding math intuitively nor its deep connections to logic (dialectics, trivium), until you hit Abstract Algebra.

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