Comment by reactordev

I don't think you're _wrong_ for wanting these things, but I think the largest game developers avoid them and provide more "on-rails" experiences for good reasons.

The thing you described about events occurring out-of-view reminds me of the "Radiant AI" system which Bethesda promised, and greatly underdelivered, for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Allegedly the game was going to be full of NPCs with their own wants and needs, and they would take actions to fulfill those wants and needs regardless of whether or not the player was even watching. It sounds like it would lead to a very interesting world, but in practice it led to criminal NPCs being dead before the player can meet them. (The truth to this story is debated: https://blog.paavo.me/radiant-ai/)

Likewise, the concept of an MMO where you aren't necessarily safe from other players in a town sounds interesting, especially in a game with a relatively small community. Applied at scale to something like World of Warcraft, I think that it would either be penalized so heavily that no one would do it, or not heavily enough so that new players have difficulty getting anywhere in the game because they are murdered by high-level trolls as soon as they log in.

Check out the games by Jeff Vogel [1] of Spiderweb Software [2]. His games may not be pretty to look at but they feature worlds that are full of life and rich with detail. Monsters attack and damage towns, destroy buildings, leave citizens homeless and shopkeepers jobless, and may eventually wipe towns off the map.

Meanwhile, the world is also full of outside areas to explore and dungeons to plunder. However, no town is safe. Spend too much time delving dungeons and you may return to a smoking ruin instead of a town. Or you may arrive in the middle of a monster attack on the town and get to participate in its defence!

Of course, the townsfolk aren't helpless either. They have town guards, soldiers, and even imperial wizards who arrive to help out. The wizards even create magical barriers to patch up the holes in the town wall!

As for how the games play, they're very reminiscent of old school Ultima games such as Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar. As a fan of UO, you may really enjoy some Spiderweb Software games. No multiplayer though, these are strictly single-player turn-based affairs.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stxVBJem3Rs

[2] https://spiderwebsoftware.com

It sounds like you want to play EVE Online, but as a guy with a sword rather than a guy in a spaceship. There is a story, but it doesn't really matter and there's no direct way to interact with it. Systems are given safety ranking from 0.0 to 1.0, depending on how fast the NPCs show up and destroy your ship. Even in 1.0 space you're not really "safe" from someone deciding they just want to blow you to smithereens.

Check out Kenshi.

Wikipedia blurb:

> Kenshi is a real-time strategy action role-playing game developed and published by Lo-Fi Games for Windows. The game focuses on sandbox gameplay features that give the player freedom to do what they want in its world instead of focusing on a linear story.

https://youtu.be/_E4nKWxSG8o?si=t93p3FtBlh4Cxcvm

Isnt this what Dwarf Fortress aspires to be? Simulated from the internal organs of dwarfs up, of course.

I have commented on Todd's failure to deliver on such promises in skyrim before.

But this is definitely where generative ai will be a boon to games, once it's stabilised enough to trust.

I'd love exactly the same; the game should still tell a story or have a point (unless it's a complete sandbox), so key plot points can be included but otherwise it's a simulation and the player can do things with their agency, but so can the npcs.

Would be cool to come back to a village, and now the leader has changed because the previous one insulted someone at the tavern, who killed the leader in a fit of rage. The village then chose a replacement leader, the assailant was publicly executed for their crimes. But the villagers decided this was too brutal a punishment so they removed the leader, who resisted but got driven out of town. The ousted leader wants control of the village back so they've been planning to enter with a crew of mercenaries.

When you get to the village you get given a quest to go take care of the problem, based on the hearsay. Hell, when you get to whatever hideout they're holed up in maybe the npc has even decided to just give up and move somewhere else.

So many opportunities for awesome narratives. I've done experiments with this stuff in text, but not in engine with an actual game.

I haven’t played it, but my understanding is that Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 works this way. Meet a person who tells you something’s happening tonight, and you better get there tonight if you want to see/do it. Maybe someone who’s played the game can chime in.

One problem with the simulation route is that games in the D&D lineage are usually wildly unbalanced. A, say, level 5 monster could run through endless level 1 NPCs. Also, much of the machinery of our world (e.g. commerce) doesn't really work when then there are incredibly dangerous and malevolent critters scattered throughout.

Ah, UO memories. PK killing as a Great Lord, Blackthorne shield in hand. Visiting town was all "bank" "bank" "bank" "lfg" "bank"

You might want to check out "Depth of Peril". kind of a cluncky diablo 1 like game. I liked it because of that dynamism. Graphics and gameplay are now dated, but if you talk fondly about ultima, you might enjoy it.