I have. He was using it due to philosophical reasons the same way many people have philosophical reasons for avoiding it. I don't know how many people are like that, but it's not exactly where you want to position your product if you're a business.
Personally - and I know I'm not alone with this sentiment based on comments I see on this site - I wouldn't touch Grok no matter how good or cheap it is. I don't trust Elon and I don't want to give another dollar to the world's richest person who turns around and uses the money to interfere with elections. The guy I know uses it for essentially the same reason I won't use it.
Perhaps customers choosing your product for irrational philosophical reasons is exactly how you'd want to position your product if you're a business. When it comes to margins, the only thing better than a price-insensitive customer is a quality-insensitive customer.
Versus Sam,Dario or the CCP? Im all for running local models but im sor far from being able to pay for a large model hardware setup. My strix halo box is like driving a beaten up vespa when the frontier models are Ferraris.
I probably have the same strix halo box as you. It's slow, although mostly tolerable, but even 128 GB isn't enough to run good models. Where that leaves us is giving money to somebody to get access to frontier models. I don't like any of those guys either, but some appear worse than others. FWIW, I mostly use Anthropic models. And CCP and their distilled models notwithstanding, at least they release open weight models at a lower cost. It's not like any American company can claim the higher ground these days anyway, especially when they trained their models on pirated content and trash our neighborhoods with their datacenters.
Yes, ethically Elon ranks lowest based on the past 5 years of questionable decisions, like uploading your entire codebase to their server without consent.
Elon is directly responsible for Grok becoming self-titled “MechaHitler” which the other three haven’t come close to matching yet.
This statement doesn't go far enough given Elon's direct and hands-on involvement with DOGE and the 2024 elections. Very few of the richest people of the world are personally entangled in meddling with government agencies directly, for example.
> MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Billionaire Elon Musk likely broke Wisconsin law when he promised to hand out $1 million checks to voters in the 2025 state Supreme Court election, a bipartisan panel has found.
> The Wisconsin Elections Commission last week referred two complaints to the Brown County district attorney’s office, which can choose to bring criminal charges over violating the state law against election bribery. Prosecutors have 40 days to report back to the commission.
Elon Musk has actively endorsed the right wing extremist party in Germany.
The one that often has trouble running it's events as businesses try to avoid serving them. And which has prominent members that the secret service considers definitely fascist.
Musk has gone a long way beyond simply being the standard rich person lobbying for their own interests, and has moved into actively promoting people that are trying to tear down liberal democracy.
There's a big difference between quiet donations to a PAC - not that that's good either - and what Elon did. He literally paid for votes, likely in violation of the law. He poured more money into U.S. elections than anyone has before. He and Trump both made strange, cryptic statements about Elon's role in Pennsylvania with the voting machines that has caused people to reasonably wonder if they somehow manipulated the election. Whether he did or not, the innuendo alone is not ok. Then he did what he did in Germany. Don't even get me started on DOGE or his Starlink shenanigans in Ukraine.
That's before we even start talking about the models themselves. He claims to want "unbiased" models, but he very clearly has a distorted view of the world and has repeatedly demonstrated a desire and willingness to bend the world to his will. I don't want to use a model that is so obviously suspect. Not to mention, his models repeatedly produce racist, Nazi-like propaganda.
IMO, he is, at best, a clueless amateur masquerading as an expert and running into problems a more careful person manages to mostly avoid. At worst... well, you get the picture.
"Everyone's doing it" presented with no evidence is just you trying to make yourself feel better for:
- using from
- driving a Tesla
- voting for Trump
It's a really, really easy line to draw in the sand: don't support openly corrupt individuals.
It's absolutely true there's money in politics. To call all money in politics equally corrupt because Bernie got a dollar to have dinner with someone vs Elon effectively directly buying votes....
A complete lack of nuance here. And I wouldn't be surprised if corporations / super rich WANT you to think like that. The more defeatist the mentality becomes the more we just accept whatever they do next.
A bunch of SWEs at my work use it as their primary model.
We have Claude, ChatGPT, and Cursor with essentially no cap on spend (top guy is spending over 10K a month on AI at API prices), and he hasn't had his hand slapped.
So it's not like they are using it purely because it's cheaper.
I think people like to use it for its speaking style, pretty solid performance, and its speed.
It's a different type of model. In my admittedly judgemental observation, people that aren't the type to configure fully automated harnesses with good tools and skills and verifiers for their infrastructure and are way more interventionist in the way their agent works tend to like grok 4.5 more as the main agent. It's much faster and writes more simple and normal code that aligns a bit more with human written code. As an example, instead of sandboxing and simply verifying output artifacts they manually read and approve edits, suggest different code patterns, and manually approved shell commands. On the flip side it's not as good as fable when you need a relatively complex multi step thing done.
But in my experience, the overall productivity ends up similar, give you are willing to work with it in that way.
The grok build TUI harness is excellent and I really enjoyed using it.
For debugging and such I found it pretty much the same as other models.
Fable's taste in software abstraction and project planning in greenfield setups[1] is unmatched in my experience. Sol is OK. My primary use is launching tens of experiments that have to smartly use a limited pool of GPUs.
I use fable to start off the experiments, decide checkpoints, gpu alloc, where to sacrifice precision for performance, and then grok4.5 to iterate, tune, debug, eval, etc, within the abstraction and setup that fable initiated. I have fable write simple scripts that are then wrapped in skills for grok to use. Speed for that loop is extremely important for me, since I also apply human judgement there and I don't like waiting for model output.
I have tried Deepseek and such for the inner agent, but I desperately need multi-modal. Otherwise it's OK, but it tends to use tools less and rambles on and tries to reason with limited information and gets things wrong. Probably a relative la k of tool use posttraining. Gemini flash limits in google ai pro are too low for me to use to compare.
I use anthropic and openais models through grants and so can't compare subscription plan token budgets, but supergrok's budgets are satisfactory.
[1] aside, I have not yet met a model that continues off of a human codebase and actually follows the patterns reliably long term. Eventually it's all slop.
It's much faster, so if you're not doing something cutting-edge, or you're doing the planning yourself and just using the LLM for implementation, the speed benefit outweighs the extra smarts of Fable/Opus5/Sol.
I had a security incident the other day and Grok was the only model that would help. Claude and GPT refused on ethical grounds and only gave general advice. In an emergency, I'd only trust Grok. However, that's the only time I used Grok for coding (since Opus 4.8 it would take a lot to get me to switch away from Anthropic)
The "safety" guardrails in Anthropic and OpenAI models are becoming a noticeable problem for security work. And, the reason I'm keeping my Kimi subscription even though it's not a great deal; Kimi subscriptions are quite stingy for the price, but K3 will do vulnerability analysis and make a PoC without requiring you to be on the approved list of Fortune 500 or government entities that have access to Mythos or Daybreak.
I'm not touching Grok. But there are alternatives to Anthropic and OpenAI that don't refuse to do security work.
I use. I used to be a Claude user. Since trying Grok 4.5 and especially Grok 4.6, I don't want to go back to Claude any more (I have early access to 4.6).
Grok is 3x+ faster than Claude and I can't tell the diff in engineering work quality. As an engineer, speed is important to me.
For me it helps that back when xAI was the new hotness, after reading HN comments constantly advertising the free Grok credits they were giving out each month for developers with data sharing enabled, I eventually set aside my personal distaste figuring I might as well take advantage for Cline/Roo Code.
I opened a developer API account, loaded 5 dollars and got the free $100s of credits for the month. Like two weeks later, xAI announced they were shutting down the subsidized credits entirely lol. Didn’t even get a full month out of it, and closed my account entirely since I sure wasn’t ever going to put another penny of my own money in.
So my personal lesson was to ignore any hype about the latest “crazy value / unbeatable / free / subsidized X, Y or Z” from anything xAI/Elon adjacent in the future.
These days I get more than enough personal usage from Codex + OpenCode Go to put up with yet another xAI/Cursor offer treadmill, especially if it involves installing new tooling to get it.
When you make politics a big part of your identity, you can’t help but to inject it everywhere. It’s glaringly weird and annoying for those of us who are apathetic and just want to talk about tech, but that’s how it has been for a few years.
It's not virtue signaling. People are allowed to have morals. And they are allowed to act in ways that align with those moral beliefs.
> do you use Apple equipment despite Apple’s use of Chinese slave labor?
If someone said they didn't buy Apple because of this, I'd support them in that too.
People. Are. Complicated. We're allowed to have beliefs, we're allowed to have beliefs that aren't internally consistent. You gotta get over the idea that people aren't genuine believers in their beliefs.
I can respect if you say you hate their guts. Everyone has their worldview. But over moral or ethical stand? You don't have any if you're using Chinese models, or fly Middle East airlines, or countless of other products. Don't delude yourself.
I don’t like what is happening in my country, Elon is a huge part of that and I don’t want to reward it. I’m not a fanatic, but if all other things are equal I can certainly factor social responsibility into the equation. Fuck that rage baiting xenophobic nazi-salute throwing asshole. [edit spelling]
Back in the day (in AI time) GitHub Copilot had Grok on the 0 github-token cost and I found it to be the best of the 0 github-token models for when my budget was out. Then they went to a multiplier that was not competitive and I haven't look back again. Been meaning too, but for personal use, Deepseek flash is so cheap I haven't felt like spending money elsewhere.
once my codex/claude weekly limit was gone, i gave it a try. It was surprisingly good, not dumb in any way, and fast. I now require it as a part of 3-of-3 quorum with any codebase change.
macOS Codex app is my main agent (its very polished). When it makes changes or code scans i ask it to run claude -p plus cursor-cli plus grok cli for double checking. This way bias of one model can be overruled by quorum.
Yeah, sounds a bit like a selection bias, i.e. the people who managed to survive the firings by DOGE and the current admin are the kind of people who might prefer Grok.
I'm only being forced to use it at $WORK since some people overran their Cursor bill, so everyone gets Cursor Auto enabled by default which routes to Grok 4.5.
I've tried it on my "let's run every model in parallel and see which finds more edge cases" type of tasks, and Grok 4.5 was really behind Opus/ChatGPT but ahead of Gemini - despite having a strong showing on benchmarks.
That makes me really skeptical of it being GPT5.6-tier, much less Fable-tier, based on some of these benchmarks alone. But I'll test here shortly.
> I have never met a single human being who uses Grok for coding
Me too. The only people I ever saw using grok were using it by accident as they used copilot in auto mode and noticed some prompts were thrown it's way.
I have. He was using it due to philosophical reasons the same way many people have philosophical reasons for avoiding it. I don't know how many people are like that, but it's not exactly where you want to position your product if you're a business.
Personally - and I know I'm not alone with this sentiment based on comments I see on this site - I wouldn't touch Grok no matter how good or cheap it is. I don't trust Elon and I don't want to give another dollar to the world's richest person who turns around and uses the money to interfere with elections. The guy I know uses it for essentially the same reason I won't use it.
Perhaps customers choosing your product for irrational philosophical reasons is exactly how you'd want to position your product if you're a business. When it comes to margins, the only thing better than a price-insensitive customer is a quality-insensitive customer.
Versus Sam,Dario or the CCP? Im all for running local models but im sor far from being able to pay for a large model hardware setup. My strix halo box is like driving a beaten up vespa when the frontier models are Ferraris.
I probably have the same strix halo box as you. It's slow, although mostly tolerable, but even 128 GB isn't enough to run good models. Where that leaves us is giving money to somebody to get access to frontier models. I don't like any of those guys either, but some appear worse than others. FWIW, I mostly use Anthropic models. And CCP and their distilled models notwithstanding, at least they release open weight models at a lower cost. It's not like any American company can claim the higher ground these days anyway, especially when they trained their models on pirated content and trash our neighborhoods with their datacenters.
1 reply →
Yes, ethically Elon ranks lowest based on the past 5 years of questionable decisions, like uploading your entire codebase to their server without consent.
Elon is directly responsible for Grok becoming self-titled “MechaHitler” which the other three haven’t come close to matching yet.
For many people, yes. That’s how far down the Elon Musk morality bar is.
Elon would be in prison for SEC violations if the current administration hadn’t been elected, and that’s only the tip of the iceberg with that guy.
[dead]
[dead]
This a a very mature, stable perspective of the world we live in. Everyone wont agree with me all the time, I don't have to either. And thats ok.
[flagged]
This statement doesn't go far enough given Elon's direct and hands-on involvement with DOGE and the 2024 elections. Very few of the richest people of the world are personally entangled in meddling with government agencies directly, for example.
1 reply →
> MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Billionaire Elon Musk likely broke Wisconsin law when he promised to hand out $1 million checks to voters in the 2025 state Supreme Court election, a bipartisan panel has found.
> The Wisconsin Elections Commission last week referred two complaints to the Brown County district attorney’s office, which can choose to bring criminal charges over violating the state law against election bribery. Prosecutors have 40 days to report back to the commission.
https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-wisconsin-election-mill...
2 replies →
Elon Musk has actively endorsed the right wing extremist party in Germany.
The one that often has trouble running it's events as businesses try to avoid serving them. And which has prominent members that the secret service considers definitely fascist.
Musk has gone a long way beyond simply being the standard rich person lobbying for their own interests, and has moved into actively promoting people that are trying to tear down liberal democracy.
[flagged]
3 replies →
Supporting parties or candidates you want to win elections is a core part of democracy.
Calling it "interfering with elections" is utterly bizarre to me.
Paying people to vote is interfering amigo.
Remember when he got hired by the federal government and walked away with a ton of private data?
everyone interferes with elections. you just prefer people to interfere on your side.
I think you are confusing the words interfere and influence.
Every accusation is a confession...
>who turns around and uses the money to interfere with elections
thats a very dumb reason considering all rich people do it, most are just not as open about it as Musk
There's a big difference between quiet donations to a PAC - not that that's good either - and what Elon did. He literally paid for votes, likely in violation of the law. He poured more money into U.S. elections than anyone has before. He and Trump both made strange, cryptic statements about Elon's role in Pennsylvania with the voting machines that has caused people to reasonably wonder if they somehow manipulated the election. Whether he did or not, the innuendo alone is not ok. Then he did what he did in Germany. Don't even get me started on DOGE or his Starlink shenanigans in Ukraine.
That's before we even start talking about the models themselves. He claims to want "unbiased" models, but he very clearly has a distorted view of the world and has repeatedly demonstrated a desire and willingness to bend the world to his will. I don't want to use a model that is so obviously suspect. Not to mention, his models repeatedly produce racist, Nazi-like propaganda.
IMO, he is, at best, a clueless amateur masquerading as an expert and running into problems a more careful person manages to mostly avoid. At worst... well, you get the picture.
"Everyone's doing it" presented with no evidence is just you trying to make yourself feel better for: - using from - driving a Tesla - voting for Trump
It's a really, really easy line to draw in the sand: don't support openly corrupt individuals.
It's absolutely true there's money in politics. To call all money in politics equally corrupt because Bernie got a dollar to have dinner with someone vs Elon effectively directly buying votes....
A complete lack of nuance here. And I wouldn't be surprised if corporations / super rich WANT you to think like that. The more defeatist the mentality becomes the more we just accept whatever they do next.
A bunch of SWEs at my work use it as their primary model.
We have Claude, ChatGPT, and Cursor with essentially no cap on spend (top guy is spending over 10K a month on AI at API prices), and he hasn't had his hand slapped.
So it's not like they are using it purely because it's cheaper.
I think people like to use it for its speaking style, pretty solid performance, and its speed.
That's pretty surprising. Idk about Grok 4.6, but Grok 4.5 was clearly below Fable, Opus 5 and GPT 5.6 Sol.
It's a different type of model. In my admittedly judgemental observation, people that aren't the type to configure fully automated harnesses with good tools and skills and verifiers for their infrastructure and are way more interventionist in the way their agent works tend to like grok 4.5 more as the main agent. It's much faster and writes more simple and normal code that aligns a bit more with human written code. As an example, instead of sandboxing and simply verifying output artifacts they manually read and approve edits, suggest different code patterns, and manually approved shell commands. On the flip side it's not as good as fable when you need a relatively complex multi step thing done.
But in my experience, the overall productivity ends up similar, give you are willing to work with it in that way.
The grok build TUI harness is excellent and I really enjoyed using it.
For debugging and such I found it pretty much the same as other models.
Fable's taste in software abstraction and project planning in greenfield setups[1] is unmatched in my experience. Sol is OK. My primary use is launching tens of experiments that have to smartly use a limited pool of GPUs.
I use fable to start off the experiments, decide checkpoints, gpu alloc, where to sacrifice precision for performance, and then grok4.5 to iterate, tune, debug, eval, etc, within the abstraction and setup that fable initiated. I have fable write simple scripts that are then wrapped in skills for grok to use. Speed for that loop is extremely important for me, since I also apply human judgement there and I don't like waiting for model output.
I have tried Deepseek and such for the inner agent, but I desperately need multi-modal. Otherwise it's OK, but it tends to use tools less and rambles on and tries to reason with limited information and gets things wrong. Probably a relative la k of tool use posttraining. Gemini flash limits in google ai pro are too low for me to use to compare.
I use anthropic and openais models through grants and so can't compare subscription plan token budgets, but supergrok's budgets are satisfactory.
[1] aside, I have not yet met a model that continues off of a human codebase and actually follows the patterns reliably long term. Eventually it's all slop.
1 reply →
It's much faster, so if you're not doing something cutting-edge, or you're doing the planning yourself and just using the LLM for implementation, the speed benefit outweighs the extra smarts of Fable/Opus5/Sol.
6 replies →
I had a security incident the other day and Grok was the only model that would help. Claude and GPT refused on ethical grounds and only gave general advice. In an emergency, I'd only trust Grok. However, that's the only time I used Grok for coding (since Opus 4.8 it would take a lot to get me to switch away from Anthropic)
The "safety" guardrails in Anthropic and OpenAI models are becoming a noticeable problem for security work. And, the reason I'm keeping my Kimi subscription even though it's not a great deal; Kimi subscriptions are quite stingy for the price, but K3 will do vulnerability analysis and make a PoC without requiring you to be on the approved list of Fortune 500 or government entities that have access to Mythos or Daybreak.
I'm not touching Grok. But there are alternatives to Anthropic and OpenAI that don't refuse to do security work.
With Claude I start having to limit the context I give it about my problem in case it trips up the safeguards. :(
I use. I used to be a Claude user. Since trying Grok 4.5 and especially Grok 4.6, I don't want to go back to Claude any more (I have early access to 4.6).
Grok is 3x+ faster than Claude and I can't tell the diff in engineering work quality. As an engineer, speed is important to me.
For $30/month, I'd expect it to have higher usage limits than Claude Code and Codex.
It really does. I felt like I could have spent $1000+ api token on claude for the amount of work on my $30 grok subscription.
4 replies →
I refuse to use that product because of the parent company.
100%, it's an easy pass given that it is always playing catch up.
For me it helps that back when xAI was the new hotness, after reading HN comments constantly advertising the free Grok credits they were giving out each month for developers with data sharing enabled, I eventually set aside my personal distaste figuring I might as well take advantage for Cline/Roo Code.
I opened a developer API account, loaded 5 dollars and got the free $100s of credits for the month. Like two weeks later, xAI announced they were shutting down the subsidized credits entirely lol. Didn’t even get a full month out of it, and closed my account entirely since I sure wasn’t ever going to put another penny of my own money in.
So my personal lesson was to ignore any hype about the latest “crazy value / unbeatable / free / subsidized X, Y or Z” from anything xAI/Elon adjacent in the future.
These days I get more than enough personal usage from Codex + OpenCode Go to put up with yet another xAI/Cursor offer treadmill, especially if it involves installing new tooling to get it.
[flagged]
Do you not ever 'vote with your wallet'?
When you make politics a big part of your identity, you can’t help but to inject it everywhere. It’s glaringly weird and annoying for those of us who are apathetic and just want to talk about tech, but that’s how it has been for a few years.
3 replies →
It's not virtue signaling. People are allowed to have morals. And they are allowed to act in ways that align with those moral beliefs.
> do you use Apple equipment despite Apple’s use of Chinese slave labor?
If someone said they didn't buy Apple because of this, I'd support them in that too.
People. Are. Complicated. We're allowed to have beliefs, we're allowed to have beliefs that aren't internally consistent. You gotta get over the idea that people aren't genuine believers in their beliefs.
14 replies →
I can respect if you say you hate their guts. Everyone has their worldview. But over moral or ethical stand? You don't have any if you're using Chinese models, or fly Middle East airlines, or countless of other products. Don't delude yourself.
I don’t like what is happening in my country, Elon is a huge part of that and I don’t want to reward it. I’m not a fanatic, but if all other things are equal I can certainly factor social responsibility into the equation. Fuck that rage baiting xenophobic nazi-salute throwing asshole. [edit spelling]
2 replies →
Chinese models are open, Grok is not.
13 replies →
Back in the day (in AI time) GitHub Copilot had Grok on the 0 github-token cost and I found it to be the best of the 0 github-token models for when my budget was out. Then they went to a multiplier that was not competitive and I haven't look back again. Been meaning too, but for personal use, Deepseek flash is so cheap I haven't felt like spending money elsewhere.
once my codex/claude weekly limit was gone, i gave it a try. It was surprisingly good, not dumb in any way, and fast. I now require it as a part of 3-of-3 quorum with any codebase change.
> I now require it as a part of 3-of-3 quorum with any codebase change
Say more about this.
macOS Codex app is my main agent (its very polished). When it makes changes or code scans i ask it to run claude -p plus cursor-cli plus grok cli for double checking. This way bias of one model can be overruled by quorum.
Folks working in US govt tend to, based on convos I've had with one such person.
Not the best endorsement given the current US gov
Yeah, sounds a bit like a selection bias, i.e. the people who managed to survive the firings by DOGE and the current admin are the kind of people who might prefer Grok.
Grok probably doesn’t object when the government asks it how to bomb schools.
They make good stuff
the new models are quite good, give it a shot
I'm only being forced to use it at $WORK since some people overran their Cursor bill, so everyone gets Cursor Auto enabled by default which routes to Grok 4.5.
I've never met anyone who uses grok for anything. I had assumed it was a Twitter/X thing and only the truly lost souls remain on that website.
[flagged]
I've tried it on my "let's run every model in parallel and see which finds more edge cases" type of tasks, and Grok 4.5 was really behind Opus/ChatGPT but ahead of Gemini - despite having a strong showing on benchmarks.
That makes me really skeptical of it being GPT5.6-tier, much less Fable-tier, based on some of these benchmarks alone. But I'll test here shortly.
It's still not as good as GPT5.6 or Opus5 but it's better than KimiK3. Good job xAI team.
Everyone on r/cursor as their pricing is now a very good deal if you use Grok and Composer.
When Grok 3 came out it was pretty good at the time. I had several simple front end demos and Grok 3 was better than GPT/Claude at the time.
Does it matter? Why turn it into a popularity contest?
it only very recently became competetive, if they proceed with improvements (and beating others on price) their share will grow
I am using it for code reviews, and it regularly surfaces stuff that neither Sol or Fable do.
> I have never met a single human being who uses Grok for coding
Me too. The only people I ever saw using grok were using it by accident as they used copilot in auto mode and noticed some prompts were thrown it's way.
I saw far more people using Mistral than grok.
I use it because it's cheap and good enough
I use Grok 4.5 High Fast in Cursor (Agentic window), and it's a genuinely great model.
I don't give a shit about Elon's politics in the same way I don't give a shit about Dario or Altman's politics.
Hell yeah
Hello
[flagged]
Well now you have so you can retire this talking point
Hello. Nice to meet you.
I have. Why do you put faith in anecdotal evidence and a sample size of one?