>A/I’s cadre of radical hackers and tech developers provide a full spectrum of services – including encrypted chats and email, web hosting, secure video conferencing and streaming, anonymity shields, and a suite of other technological tools [...] while remaining anonymous, untraceable, and beyond the reach of the law.
ignoring the political leanings, this type of rhetoric will certainly be used to further the campaign against encryption, bolster the case for id verification requirements, etc. it paints the use of everyday normal tools: email, web hosting, etc. as inherently bad if they are private.
What the US government is doing here is a perversion of justice. Anyone running web services critical of those in control of the US government should be extremely concerned.
US sanctioned ICC, Francesca Albanese and a lot of other people who simply tell the truth.
The United States may still have power, but they no longer have any credibility and no longer deserve any respect, neither they nor their zionist partners
The ADL has a whole page[1] listing examples of her supposed antisemitism but it basically seems to just be examples of her criticising Israel. I guess the ADL considers that to be the same thing but it is pretty unpersuasive unless you think every criticism of Israel is automatically antisemitism.
>Francesca Albanese does from the looks of it appear to be fairly antisemitic as well, they have made many statements indicating they believe many common antisemitic conspiracy theories at a minimum in addition to statements that appears to be justifying terrorism.
lmao no she does not she reported a well substantiated set of claims and provided plenty of evidence. Sadly some Jewish individuals and entities, mainly Zionists tarnish the rest of us jews. But no, telling the truth about bloodthirsty Zionists is not antisemitism.
It stopped being "muh cunspirucy thiory" when it became clear how much they loved and worked with Epstein.
Really best for the US to get rid of the zionism ties. I'm fine with US imperialism, which actually benefits us, not this bs where we spend all our money and diplomatic strength on some other country.
Supporting allies like this by supplying weapons is is one of the main ways the us projects military strength abroad and the situation with Israel shows how that can actually be counterproductive by escalating hostilities.
If you don't want the us to waste money on that you probably actually shouldn't want the us to engage in "imperialism" at all.
Supporting imperialism, any imperialism, simply is wrong.
Is this really all that humanity amounts to in 2026? Thinking about imposing its own hegemony on others, the way kings did with their subjects in the Middle Ages? Massacring defenceless peoples like the Palestinians? Behaving like the Nazis?
And expecting that no one will respond to such abuses and when they do, calling them terrorists?
Are you really okay with imperialism even when you’re the one benefiting from it?
Is this all the ‘civilization’ we’ve reached in 2026? Really?
considering the state that cyberpunk was in on it's release lead to so much backlash that Sony and other digital storefronts allowed unconditional full refunds as the developers knowingly shipped out unbuggy untested garbage, I would say you also have a starring role in that documentary by supporting cdprojektred. Might be a game, I respect myself a little too much to engage with it though
It's not a statement that they're continuing to do exactly the same as before. The people publishing this piece of propaganda at least want to present it as new, which is thus a new situation and so rightly reported as news.
The total attention given to this is a little bit goofy given the small sums involved. According to Autistici Invenati's costs page[1], the total they spend every year is €20,300. It's strange to see it trumped up as anything like a major entity.
Why US financial sanctions against an EU-based non-profit? Making it harder to accept money from the US does not seem like quite the right tool. Are they known to be primarily sponsored by US individuals, or depending on other service providers with US presence?
Every day it seems a little weirder how many of these other countries are apparently passively tolerating the US/Google/Apple/etc-centric nature of parts of their internal economy.
And, of note, online payments across EU countries is most often done with American payment methods. Most Chinese companies only take US-based payment methods.
Such a sanction really narrows down where they can buy online — it's not just the US that becomes off-limits.
The objective is to target USA citizens who host their blogs there. Italian banks, EU-based payment processors and domain registrars will still block you if you are sanctioned by the USA Treasury, to avoid being cut off the global financial system.
Damn I had my first email account with them more than 25 years ago. Nice to see they are still around fighting the good fight.
The US govt can go fuck itself, with their agenda in which antifascism has become the big bad monster to replace the evil terrorists of the Bush era. Fight against fascism is still a point of pride in Italy.
While they are not directly in trouble, this is yet one more reason to have a sovereign financial system in Europe. Especially a direct competitor for the credit card networks (VISA, Mastercard) and SWIFT. These are the immediate threats.
To give a bit of context, A/I has always been closer to a conceptual group than an active hacking organization. Think Luther Blisset[1], or for a more US-centric community, the Yes-Men group[2].
Like, if they said "We're indicating Red Brigades as a terrorist group" at least it would be... understandable. But all in all Banksy has probably pulled way riskier political stunts than those guys in the past.
Well this is concerning, hopefully they aren’t planning to go after Disroot and Riseup as well. The ability to access secure hosting shouldn’t depend on political orientation.
A universal financial blocklist that can be added to or retracted algorithmically is a great, inexpensive way of murdering people you don't like.
There is no legal limit to the number of (if you will) seats on the blocklist, nor meaningful legal limit to how often, or for what reason, people are put there. Cheaper than Shaheds, with much greater range.
The real weapon of the future, there for the grasping.
It is an interesting read, because of how odd an attack it is. The rationale itself is technically not new and 'hacker known as 4chan' is a meme for a reason.
However, it may be worthwhile to consider those sanctions in light of Bessent's recent conference, where he failed to deliver on his own overpromise of economic d-day, which, reasonably, a lot of professionals interpreted as Chinese banks sanctions.
In other words, while notable and maybe even worrying in terms of precedent it is apparently trying to set up ( because it does ), compared to a broader failure to deliver on a rather massive threat suggests this is weird distraction and not the main course.
Willy-nilly terrorist designation serving as an anything-goes legal loophole is an import from Israel. It goes against all American and British legal traditions and it needs to die.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the current administration would do that. If it has happened, it was prior administrations (which honestly were just as weak in addressing this concern). And if they still are on some list, its likely just an oversight and is a matter of time before they get the Proud Boys treatment (a presidential pardon, a settlement for emotional damage or...whatever, and a bunch of confidence that they don't need).
You know you don't have to always accept government overreach under the guise of "fairness." It's not fair, it was never fair, why are you expecting it to be fair?
Just look at how the US treats "ecoterrorists" versus white supremacist; or if you want historical examples look at how the FBI treated labor groups versus fascists ones in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s (no need to worry about the decades after, they killed enough leaders to stop leftwing voices in the US).
Labor groups up to and including in the 60s were fiercely anti-immigration [1], and wanted to expand laws like the Chinese Exclusion act. You would call them white supremacist today. But as you say, the FBI did its job, and eventually the unions accepted immigration, just like capital wanted. Now Amazon can release a study showing diversity impedes unions [2], and Wikipedia helpfully summarizes it to give the opposite impression [3], while the FBI can better spend its time investigating "It's okay to be white" as terrorism [4], libeling whites with fabricated extremism cases [5], and taking instruction from the ADL [6].
[3] Factors including racial diversity, proximity to other unions, poverty levels in the surrounding community, and calls to the NLRB were named as contributors to "unionization risk." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amazon
The 2001 AUMF (authorization of us of military force) needs to be repealed so that these "special designations" are no longer allowed and war has to be declared. The US federal government will still perform the same acts but at least after the 2001 AUMF is repealed they'll have to go back to secret assassinations. Instead of flouting it in semi-public with the executive disposition matrix system.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
But at this point "To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world" is seemingly more relevant.
Very strange to decide to only supply a communications system to people ideologically aligned with one. That seems like it would make one stand out to an undesirable degree, and it makes me wonder whether these groups actually do this, or whether they're setting others up. If this is correct I almost whether they're going after something set up by the Italian government.
Still, it seems like this would likely to be protected under the US first amendment, and it would probably be reasonable to bring legal action in the US to avoid silly stuff happening in Europe, when this in inevitably used to send goons and annoying infiltrators across the sea to Italy and Europe.
It’s fairly common, given the presence of Disroot and Riseup. The problem for political groups is that they can’t necessarily trust non-aligned hosts not to betray them. A warrant is one thing, you have to comply regardless, but non-aligned hosts may hand over data upon request even if there is no warrant.
Yeah, but it is possible to make distributed systems.
I've written up a little toy in Erlang where you have lots of connections to peers and send dummy messages, all of the same size, to all your peers continuously and then, because of this, you can obviously send a message to whoever you like without anyone being able to know to whom you sent it. With a bit of extra delay you can add retransmission, and then you can have huge networks. Complete resistance to traffic analysis.
The only thing you need to accept to have this kind of security is to accept that message timing might be 1/s, or 0.1/s, but for things like e-mail that isn't a problem at all.
My system is not done. I had intended to finish it if ChatControl 2.0 passed, but since it didn't, and there's upon that a war on I didn't put it out, and I thought it was a bad idea to popularize this kind of thing since there was a war on, but it's quite straightforward. Many here could probably write something like it.
American companies have contested warrants have they not? The jump from request to warrant is not the major hurdle.
Imo people often make the wrong tradeoff here. If the government really wants something jurisdictional questions will not stop them. You're actually inviting them to just steal it at that point.
Better to keep things in the US where there will at least be a clear paper trail. And instead of wasting money on non-aligned infra budget for a half decent lawyer. American companies and citizens will have an easier time holding the American government accountable than "non-aligned" hosts. The current administration in particular is routinely embarrassed in the courts.
Sometimes I read about left wing civic groups and their privacy efforts and it feels delusional. You would think many of them would relish a paper trail of persecution and the publicity of a victorious court battle. The US government will not be deterred because you are hosting something in Europe or your homegrown service. It's really a bit of a joke to think so.
Plus what do you think is going to happen in two years? It feels like now is the time to lean into being on the shit list (if you can manage it - most of them are so ineffective they barely even register) so you can benefit when the tables turn in two years.
Sounds like the Trump administration is looking to shift the news away from Iran and Ukraine and back to the things that work for its voters: immigration (see the visa thread also on the main page) and antifa.
US sanctions all kinds of completely non-threatening individuals based purely on ideology and attempts to silence their speech, and discourage them from making the world a better place. So this may be yet another such thing. By itself, being sanctionned by the US doesn't say anything about the person or entity.
Eg. ICC-EO14203
What a petty country, sanctioning judges of international criminal court, or UN workers, as if that means anything. ICC gets authority from countries that formed this court not from appointed judges. If you want to fight the court, you have to sanction entire countries. Sanction the entire assembly of state parties. You sanction one judge or one prosecutor, we elect another. It's not just petty, it's idiotic.
Not in the tech industry, apparently. As a 50 year old, it's really shocking to see what I thought were just solid, solid underpinnings of a modern liberal society like "white nationalists are bad and should be ostracized" eroding.
Capitalism "needs to win", but there's no way it can without being ruthlessly forced upon people. Heck even forcing it is just delaying the inevitable decline/crash.
Certain elements of Capitalism (cough AI) seem to simultaneously be speedrunning its decline and keeping it on life support. What strange times we find ourselves in.
Capitalism has been judged on its own merits, and been found to be a ridiculously simplistic, unworkable system that tends toward oligarchy, massive inequality, and authoritarianism.
The state needs to get involved to protect the unworkable system.
Maybe you are right, at least partially, I can identify many of its flaws myself. However for example my homeland has tried communism/socialism, and went through brief periods of anarchy, and the same can be told about all. My family has lost a lot to all of these experiments (including the current capitalist one), but stability and modest prosperity are the best, and anarchism is as far from that as it gets, especially as represented by the Antifa.
Even the communist regime persecuted anarchism. (though they supported it when it was not at home, as a destabilizing tool)
>Rose City Antifa also used A/I Collective tools and services to disseminate doxing lists and release illegally obtained personal information of Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement, along with calls for targeted attacks on ICE agents in the streets and “in their homes.”
That's what DHS does. They dish it out but can't handle it when it's done to them. Cowards.
Dishing it out but not accepting it being done to them is exactly what it means to be a monopoly on legitimate violence. When two parties are dishing it out separately to each other, and one of them calls themselves the government, this is called a civil war or at least a terrorist insurgency.
The far more worrying development is that Tyrant Trump has declared the Palestine Action organization an official terrorist organization, to whatever degree it is an organization at all. Have there actually been threats or acts of violence with political objectives or are we just now calling everything the ruling maniacs don't like a terrorist, as I predicted before the "patriot" act was magically pulled out of a desk on 9/12 and rammed through congress in 6 weeks, before the dust had even settled over the rubble of the twin towers?
That should worry anyone, regardless of whether you agree with them or not unless they have perpetrated some kind of violent acts to scare people in pursuit of political aims like the US government. Trump may only be able to be a Tyrant for about 31 more months at best unless he goes full tilt, but the precedent he is setting will be used against any and all civic and resistance organizations that the ruling maniacs don't like in the future too.
I do not say this lightly, but everyone should be getting serious about what their plans will be when tyranny goes full mask off in the USA and your house and your land and your stuff all the sudden is said to belong to someone else and if you oppose that, you are a terrorist whose children deserve to be shot in the head by government snipers as the try to get water so they don't die of dehydration. No one ever thinks it will affect them, but you are already in the cage, the door is just not closed yet and it's clad in a pleasant facade. What happens when the psychopathic Epstein clan is facing total loss of power because the bond market has collapsed from their evisceration of all trust in the USA and they send their police and military goons after you as you try to scrounge for food to feed your family like in Palestine/gaza? You are the Gazans of tomorrow, you just don't know it yet.
I have been a personal victim to PA's violence and attacks. I could explain more details but essentially, they caused a bunch of damage and assaulted some employees of a workplace simply due to the fact we sold a piece of equipment to our middle eastern distributor that was going to a non-military Israeli company.
I’d do my Gen X duty and trash them both, but we are turning into old people every time I look around. Not just literally, but the mindset. Our mating call is “We drank from hoses and we survived!”
That said, I think a true Greatest Generation would not consist so heavily of guys who sit in the car while their wives grocery shop.
They don’t hate their parents. Their parents defeated fascism but brought some of the war home with them.
Emotional suffering is a memetic disease, an information disease spread by behavior; it makes people sick. The output of one integrated system becomes the input of another, like LLM distillation. Think of a war, or any emotional state, as a packet of information, that spreads like a virus, and infects and modifies the structure of the limbic system, thus transferring the emotional state, the structure of the limbic system, or LLM, from one system to another.
War made the Greatest Generation sick, and because they didn’t get treatment after fighting the sickness of fascism, they brought it home and it made their kids sick. When people are emotionally sick they don’t feel good, and that makes them emotionally inward focused, to the point they don’t have the capacity for much empathy towards others. This makes people appear selfish. It made a whole generation selfish. Because the virus affects the mind, it affects perception of reality and self; people don’t realize they’re sick.
Same thing is happening in Palestine; a group of people who were treated inhumanely are treating another group of people inhumanely. It’s a sickness. An actual sickness.
The Greatest Generation was just flattery propaganda that you use to manipulate people. It'a a bit complicated, but Boomers didn't actually have real functional control over the actions of the USA until about the mid 90s when they ascended to business, political control, and electoral impact. Yes, even though their parents were really The Most Awful Generation, the boomers kind of are left the useful idiots holding the bag in many ways as they were majorly psyopped all their life to similar but different degrees and for different purposes as the millennial, gen z, and Gen Alpha were abused and brainwashed through social media and "TV".
What you ascribe to boomers is really the fault of the most awful generation. For context, the oldest boomers were only 22 during the civil rights era and the youngest were 12. You were never told that and you never noticed it, did you?
Boomers were split nearly evenly between Trump and Harris in 2024. Gen X were the ones that went strongly for Trump (around 54% to 44%).
Millennials were for Harris (51-47%), and Gen Z were for Harris as strongly as Gen X were for Trump (54-43%).
What did it for Trump was voter turn out.
Boomers were around 50 million voters with around 75% turnout, but because they only favored Trump by a percent or two they only gave Trump a small plus of around 750k votes.
Gen X had around 70% turnout for their 50-55 million voters, and with their strong support of Trump they have him a big plus of around 3710k.
Millennials had 60-75 million voters but around 60% turnout. The lower turnout cut their voting numbers to not much more than Gen X which combined with their Harris support not being as strong as Gen X's Trump support means their Harris plus was about 1510k.
Gen Z 40-50 million voters both only around 50% turnout. Their strong Harris support somewhat made up for that and they gave her a plus of around 2470k.
If Gen Z had merely upped their turnout to 60%, like Millennials, that would have turned the election around.
Would love to know who your supplier is, for... scientific purposes. FdS is controlled by managers appointed by political parties and the composition depends on who's in power in that moment, surely not "by the people" nor "communist unions".
Compare to: "You told me The Illuminati [worldwide ancient conspiracy] was a myth, but behold, I have proof of The Illuminati [card game] right here my hands! CHECKMATE, SKEPTICS!"
Ha ha, but no, you weren’t. You were told that there’s no such thing as an organized centralized group called Antifa. You were told that it’s an ideological approach to fighting fascism, not a terrorist organization. You were told that labeling antifa as a terrorist organization was going to be an excuse for bringing sanctions against anyone Trump’s administration happens to dislike.
An organization does have to have a clear set of shared plans, toward which it takes a program of coordinated action. That's what an organization is. It's about being organized. A bunch of random individuals who share some opinions, occasionally use similar tactics, may cooperate sporadically, and describe themselves using some term or gravitate toward certain symbols, is not an organization. And it's not clear that "antifa" even does most of those things.
Nor are a bunch of small groups a single "organization" if they don't have some kind of ongoing, systemematic structure for coordinating their actions.
I'm an atheist. That doesn't make atheism an organization.
I've remember news and reporting about neo-Nazis (adjective) but not a lot of "the Neo-Nazi international terrorist organization..." (singular noun).
Seems like an ideology, not an organization.
If you look at the Treasury wording here: "so-called antifascist groups (“Antifa”)" they do this weird thing where they refer to groups, plural, but give it a singular noun as if it's one big global thing.
And that seems very intentionally misleading compared to, say, "self-described Antifa groups" or such.
It all seems consistent with right-wing/American-evangelical victimization propaganda techniques going back to talk radio in the 80s.
Copy-pasting my comment to the other poster making the same point:
"Antifa" is not being presented as an ideology, it is being portrayed as a global terror cell. The specific purpose for this is to be able criminalize leftist politics, since the state has many more tools to prevent association with foreign groups.
"Nazi" does not have a leader, but the Nazi party had a leader. Atomwaffen had a leader. Various III% groups have leaders. Strangely, these groups are not being linked to foreign right-wing groups in an attempt to make them illegal.
"Antifa" is not being presented as an ideology, it is being portrayed as a global terror cell. The specific purpose for this is to be able criminalize leftist politics, since the state has many more tools to prevent association with foreign groups.
"Nazi" does not have a leader, but the Nazi party had a leader. Atomwaffen had a leader. Various III% groups have leaders. Strangely, these groups are not being linked to foreign right-wing groups in an attempt to make them illegal.
The important part here would seem to be that we're talking about communications hosting. Why would we want to propagate a framing created by a far right terrorist network, just because they've managed to capture the bully pulpit? It's not required to pick any extremist organizations to support, you know.
PKK is an actual terrorist organization, with half a century history of bombing shopping malls and hospitals and responsible for the death of tens of thousands of civilians.
If any organization perpetrated even a single of their attacks on US soil or EU, nobody would dare to talk about them as freedom fighters (perhaps instead NATO's 5th article would get invoked and a global war on terrorism would be declared and all perpetrators would be chased down to the depths of hell, until their deaths put on display alongside a Mission Accomplished banner) but since they're bombing Turkish malls and killing Turkish school teachers, f*ck'em, let's put PKK in the same category as Green Peace.
Imagine a 50000-strong armed Native American organization started bombing supermarkets and schools in DC and New York, kidnap and assassinate big-name businessmen, in addition to engaging in cross border guerrilla warfare and say they won't yield until US yields back all historically Native American lands back to them so they can create a new country. Would you put them in the same basket as Antifa or Green Peace? Or how would you feel Russian and Chinese media making ceaseless woke reporting and framing them as freedom fighters and US soldiers and police as oppressors and the root cause, while indirectly bankrolling them and providing them with platform of operations and weapons, and use all of this (their support or protections for the group, and the woke propaganda machine/condemnation of US gov acts) as a political bargaining chip at every chance.
>half a century history of bombing shopping malls and hospitals and responsible for the death of tens of thousands of civilians
That's still a few orders of magnitude fewer than number of Armenian, Assyrian and Greek civilians killed by the Turks, but nobody's calling for Turkey to be designated a terrorist organization.
well, for the americans, the trump and bibi governments were hoping to ally themselves with kurdish terrorist groups to attack and overthrow the iranian government
properly kurdistan should exist, and turkey/syria/iran/iraq should lose territory to make it.
the list of states is arbitrary, and the kurds have just as much right as the turks to a state and government such their violence is consider state acts of war rather than terrorism.
>A/I’s cadre of radical hackers and tech developers provide a full spectrum of services – including encrypted chats and email, web hosting, secure video conferencing and streaming, anonymity shields, and a suite of other technological tools [...] while remaining anonymous, untraceable, and beyond the reach of the law.
ignoring the political leanings, this type of rhetoric will certainly be used to further the campaign against encryption, bolster the case for id verification requirements, etc. it paints the use of everyday normal tools: email, web hosting, etc. as inherently bad if they are private.
And it will have the effect of making these tools more popular, as it boldly proclaims how effective they are against even nation-state–level threats.
> it boldly proclaims how effective they are against even nation-state–level threats
it boldly proclaims how effective they are against even rogue nation-state–level threats.
There, FTFY.
it almost reads like an advertisement! Secure video conferencing!
That's probably the point of it?
"We're murdering people and they have the audacity to organise against us"!
A/I mails weren't e2e encrypted.
not sure if that's relevant.
the announcement specifically calls out "encrypted chats and email" and implies that it's a bad thing because it is private
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What the US government is doing here is a perversion of justice. Anyone running web services critical of those in control of the US government should be extremely concerned.
and we never even saw it coming... sigh.
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If the US government can designate their ideological opponents as terrorists without due process or any real justification, then nobody is safe.
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This is the same government that called Alex Pretti a terrorist after executing him in the street
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Should we also ask the Saudis what drawings to punish by beheading or the Taliban which writings to punish by stoning?
US sanctioned ICC, Francesca Albanese and a lot of other people who simply tell the truth.
The United States may still have power, but they no longer have any credibility and no longer deserve any respect, neither they nor their zionist partners
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The ADL has a whole page[1] listing examples of her supposed antisemitism but it basically seems to just be examples of her criticising Israel. I guess the ADL considers that to be the same thing but it is pretty unpersuasive unless you think every criticism of Israel is automatically antisemitism.
1: https://www.adl.org/resources/article/francesca-albanese-her...
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>Francesca Albanese does from the looks of it appear to be fairly antisemitic as well, they have made many statements indicating they believe many common antisemitic conspiracy theories at a minimum in addition to statements that appears to be justifying terrorism.
lmao no she does not she reported a well substantiated set of claims and provided plenty of evidence. Sadly some Jewish individuals and entities, mainly Zionists tarnish the rest of us jews. But no, telling the truth about bloodthirsty Zionists is not antisemitism. It stopped being "muh cunspirucy thiory" when it became clear how much they loved and worked with Epstein.
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Really best for the US to get rid of the zionism ties. I'm fine with US imperialism, which actually benefits us, not this bs where we spend all our money and diplomatic strength on some other country.
Supporting allies like this by supplying weapons is is one of the main ways the us projects military strength abroad and the situation with Israel shows how that can actually be counterproductive by escalating hostilities.
If you don't want the us to waste money on that you probably actually shouldn't want the us to engage in "imperialism" at all.
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Supporting imperialism, any imperialism, simply is wrong.
Is this really all that humanity amounts to in 2026? Thinking about imposing its own hegemony on others, the way kings did with their subjects in the Middle Ages? Massacring defenceless peoples like the Palestinians? Behaving like the Nazis?
And expecting that no one will respond to such abuses and when they do, calling them terrorists?
Are you really okay with imperialism even when you’re the one benefiting from it?
Is this all the ‘civilization’ we’ve reached in 2026? Really?
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Declaring a group of "hackers" as global terrorists? Mark off that spot on your Cyberpunk Dystopia Bingo cards.
granted when I fire up Cyberpunk 2077 nowadays I'm not sure if I'm playing a computer game or a documentary
The cyberpunk dystopia we were promised was much more stylish than the cyberpunk dystopia we got.
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considering the state that cyberpunk was in on it's release lead to so much backlash that Sony and other digital storefronts allowed unconditional full refunds as the developers knowingly shipped out unbuggy untested garbage, I would say you also have a starring role in that documentary by supporting cdprojektred. Might be a game, I respect myself a little too much to engage with it though
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It's not a statement that they're continuing to do exactly the same as before. The people publishing this piece of propaganda at least want to present it as new, which is thus a new situation and so rightly reported as news.
The total attention given to this is a little bit goofy given the small sums involved. According to Autistici Invenati's costs page[1], the total they spend every year is €20,300. It's strange to see it trumped up as anything like a major entity.
https://www.autistici.org/who/costs
The current US government is trying to create a narrative where America is under siege from a shadowy army of foreign left-wing forces.
In particular, this aligns with several of Umberto Eco's fourteen properties of Ur-Fascism[1]:
4. Disagreement is treason
7. Obsession with a plot
8. The enemy is at the same time too strong and too weak.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism
super!
Why US financial sanctions against an EU-based non-profit? Making it harder to accept money from the US does not seem like quite the right tool. Are they known to be primarily sponsored by US individuals, or depending on other service providers with US presence?
It means no use of Visa or American Express bank cards, which are US companies.
I think SWIFT transactions are under US control.
No use of Apple, Google, Amazon, AirBnB, Uber, or other US-based services.
Eg, "Canadian judge Kimberly Prost is unable to use credit cards or access everyday services in what she calls an attack on the independence of the judiciary " - https://www.irishtimes.com/world/us/2025/12/12/its-surreal-u...
Every day it seems a little weirder how many of these other countries are apparently passively tolerating the US/Google/Apple/etc-centric nature of parts of their internal economy.
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And, of note, online payments across EU countries is most often done with American payment methods. Most Chinese companies only take US-based payment methods.
Such a sanction really narrows down where they can buy online — it's not just the US that becomes off-limits.
Being designated a "terrorist" by the USA means it can use ANY means to destroy you: overt violence, subversion, propaganda, and financial.
Not that the USA NEEDS to apply that designation to use those methods....
The objective is to target USA citizens who host their blogs there. Italian banks, EU-based payment processors and domain registrars will still block you if you are sanctioned by the USA Treasury, to avoid being cut off the global financial system.
https://www.autistici.org/donate
both of their .orgs appear to be down, got any mirrors?
Damn I had my first email account with them more than 25 years ago. Nice to see they are still around fighting the good fight.
The US govt can go fuck itself, with their agenda in which antifascism has become the big bad monster to replace the evil terrorists of the Bush era. Fight against fascism is still a point of pride in Italy.
While they are not directly in trouble, this is yet one more reason to have a sovereign financial system in Europe. Especially a direct competitor for the credit card networks (VISA, Mastercard) and SWIFT. These are the immediate threats.
What do you mean "not directly in trouble"? Their bank account will be blocked.
Sorry, what I meant is that they are Italians and as much as the US would like to exercise extraterritoriality, they are safe in Italy
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I wonder how did they even know about A/I.
To give a bit of context, A/I has always been closer to a conceptual group than an active hacking organization. Think Luther Blisset[1], or for a more US-centric community, the Yes-Men group[2].
Like, if they said "We're indicating Red Brigades as a terrorist group" at least it would be... understandable. But all in all Banksy has probably pulled way riskier political stunts than those guys in the past.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Blissett_(pseudonym) [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yes_Men
Antifa to me has always been the guys who beat up skinheads. I wonder who they're emailing?
They have to schedule the hourly arguments about anarchy & what it means w the co-op!
Hey -- not all skinheads are Nazis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Redskins
A shop with leather jackets
Well this is concerning, hopefully they aren’t planning to go after Disroot and Riseup as well. The ability to access secure hosting shouldn’t depend on political orientation.
Beware of patterns that scale and accelerate.
A universal financial blocklist that can be added to or retracted algorithmically is a great, inexpensive way of murdering people you don't like.
There is no legal limit to the number of (if you will) seats on the blocklist, nor meaningful legal limit to how often, or for what reason, people are put there. Cheaper than Shaheds, with much greater range.
The real weapon of the future, there for the grasping.
Every announcement from these psychos reads like a missive from the Ministry of Peace
It is an interesting read, because of how odd an attack it is. The rationale itself is technically not new and 'hacker known as 4chan' is a meme for a reason.
However, it may be worthwhile to consider those sanctions in light of Bessent's recent conference, where he failed to deliver on his own overpromise of economic d-day, which, reasonably, a lot of professionals interpreted as Chinese banks sanctions.
In other words, while notable and maybe even worrying in terms of precedent it is apparently trying to set up ( because it does ), compared to a broader failure to deliver on a rather massive threat suggests this is weird distraction and not the main course.
Willy-nilly terrorist designation serving as an anything-goes legal loophole is an import from Israel. It goes against all American and British legal traditions and it needs to die.
Rose City Antifa: Oregon gets a shout out. Seriously.
As long as the same lens is applied equally to far-right and white supremacist groups, then this is fine.
This question is rhetorical with this administration, however.
We all know it won't be, so it's not fine. Because they've been told to 'stand back and stand by' and now they work in ICE: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/2026/01/ice-proud-boys-...
Yes, some groups which you would call that have also been designated as terrorist organizations by the US.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the current administration would do that. If it has happened, it was prior administrations (which honestly were just as weak in addressing this concern). And if they still are on some list, its likely just an oversight and is a matter of time before they get the Proud Boys treatment (a presidential pardon, a settlement for emotional damage or...whatever, and a bunch of confidence that they don't need).
January sixers got collective pardons and a pat on the head. (Plus a bunch of money IIRC?)
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You know you don't have to always accept government overreach under the guise of "fairness." It's not fair, it was never fair, why are you expecting it to be fair?
Just look at how the US treats "ecoterrorists" versus white supremacist; or if you want historical examples look at how the FBI treated labor groups versus fascists ones in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s (no need to worry about the decades after, they killed enough leaders to stop leftwing voices in the US).
Labor groups up to and including in the 60s were fiercely anti-immigration [1], and wanted to expand laws like the Chinese Exclusion act. You would call them white supremacist today. But as you say, the FBI did its job, and eventually the unions accepted immigration, just like capital wanted. Now Amazon can release a study showing diversity impedes unions [2], and Wikipedia helpfully summarizes it to give the opposite impression [3], while the FBI can better spend its time investigating "It's okay to be white" as terrorism [4], libeling whites with fabricated extremism cases [5], and taking instruction from the ADL [6].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_policies_of_Americ...
[2] Whole Foods' heat map says lower rates of racial diversity increase unionization risks - https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionizat...
[3] Factors including racial diversity, proximity to other unions, poverty levels in the surrounding community, and calls to the NLRB were named as contributors to "unionization risk." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amazon
[4] Ohio universities involve FBI in investigation of ‘It’s okay to be white’ and white nationalist group’s postings on campus - https://www.thefire.org/news/ohio-universities-involve-fbi-i...
[5] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/sep/15/biden-accus...
[6] Did you know ADL trains every new FBI agent on their role as protectors of the American people and the Constitution? - https://x.com/ADL/status/472384478464061441
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The 2001 AUMF (authorization of us of military force) needs to be repealed so that these "special designations" are no longer allowed and war has to be declared. The US federal government will still perform the same acts but at least after the 2001 AUMF is repealed they'll have to go back to secret assassinations. Instead of flouting it in semi-public with the executive disposition matrix system.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
But at this point "To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world" is seemingly more relevant.
Very strange to decide to only supply a communications system to people ideologically aligned with one. That seems like it would make one stand out to an undesirable degree, and it makes me wonder whether these groups actually do this, or whether they're setting others up. If this is correct I almost whether they're going after something set up by the Italian government.
Still, it seems like this would likely to be protected under the US first amendment, and it would probably be reasonable to bring legal action in the US to avoid silly stuff happening in Europe, when this in inevitably used to send goons and annoying infiltrators across the sea to Italy and Europe.
It’s fairly common, given the presence of Disroot and Riseup. The problem for political groups is that they can’t necessarily trust non-aligned hosts not to betray them. A warrant is one thing, you have to comply regardless, but non-aligned hosts may hand over data upon request even if there is no warrant.
Yeah, but it is possible to make distributed systems.
I've written up a little toy in Erlang where you have lots of connections to peers and send dummy messages, all of the same size, to all your peers continuously and then, because of this, you can obviously send a message to whoever you like without anyone being able to know to whom you sent it. With a bit of extra delay you can add retransmission, and then you can have huge networks. Complete resistance to traffic analysis.
The only thing you need to accept to have this kind of security is to accept that message timing might be 1/s, or 0.1/s, but for things like e-mail that isn't a problem at all.
My system is not done. I had intended to finish it if ChatControl 2.0 passed, but since it didn't, and there's upon that a war on I didn't put it out, and I thought it was a bad idea to popularize this kind of thing since there was a war on, but it's quite straightforward. Many here could probably write something like it.
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American companies have contested warrants have they not? The jump from request to warrant is not the major hurdle.
Imo people often make the wrong tradeoff here. If the government really wants something jurisdictional questions will not stop them. You're actually inviting them to just steal it at that point.
Better to keep things in the US where there will at least be a clear paper trail. And instead of wasting money on non-aligned infra budget for a half decent lawyer. American companies and citizens will have an easier time holding the American government accountable than "non-aligned" hosts. The current administration in particular is routinely embarrassed in the courts.
Sometimes I read about left wing civic groups and their privacy efforts and it feels delusional. You would think many of them would relish a paper trail of persecution and the publicity of a victorious court battle. The US government will not be deterred because you are hosting something in Europe or your homegrown service. It's really a bit of a joke to think so.
Plus what do you think is going to happen in two years? It feels like now is the time to lean into being on the shit list (if you can manage it - most of them are so ineffective they barely even register) so you can benefit when the tables turn in two years.
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in terms of making alternatives to large platforms, some ideological bias as the differentiator is pretty common.
its a reason for people to ditch the larger platforms with higher reach and bigger audiences
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What terrorist attacks?
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I refuse to believe that people throwing paint on factory windows are terrorists.
You do realize it's not the great depression anymore, right?
The Smithsonian might be next… https://folkways.si.edu/this-machine-kills-fascists-sticker/...
This administration has already been targeting the smithsonian
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/08/donald-trump...
Sounds like the Trump administration is looking to shift the news away from Iran and Ukraine and back to the things that work for its voters: immigration (see the visa thread also on the main page) and antifa.
Expect more of this until the midterms…
US sanctions all kinds of completely non-threatening individuals based purely on ideology and attempts to silence their speech, and discourage them from making the world a better place. So this may be yet another such thing. By itself, being sanctionned by the US doesn't say anything about the person or entity.
Eg. ICC-EO14203
What a petty country, sanctioning judges of international criminal court, or UN workers, as if that means anything. ICC gets authority from countries that formed this court not from appointed judges. If you want to fight the court, you have to sanction entire countries. Sanction the entire assembly of state parties. You sanction one judge or one prosecutor, we elect another. It's not just petty, it's idiotic.
This means that all involved will have their google/apple/whatever account blocked and revoked, correct?
No more services from the USA.
Their websites seems to be based on gandi.net, and this document is threatening secondary sanctions. Will be interesting to check the fallout.
I hope the guys will be able to scramble and move registrars and backup all their data from any service they use personally.
Good luck.
Siamo tutti antifascisti!
Not in the tech industry, apparently. As a 50 year old, it's really shocking to see what I thought were just solid, solid underpinnings of a modern liberal society like "white nationalists are bad and should be ostracized" eroding.
too true, but "dovremmo essere tutti antifascisti!" doesn't have much ooomph to it unfortunately.
Not around these parts, especially not in the European sense.
Why can't capitalism be judged on its own merits? Why do we need the state to get involved in shaping hegemony?
You know the answer. There’s a reason the state considers antifa a threat.
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Capitalism "needs to win", but there's no way it can without being ruthlessly forced upon people. Heck even forcing it is just delaying the inevitable decline/crash.
Certain elements of Capitalism (cough AI) seem to simultaneously be speedrunning its decline and keeping it on life support. What strange times we find ourselves in.
Capitalism has been judged on its own merits, and been found to be a ridiculously simplistic, unworkable system that tends toward oligarchy, massive inequality, and authoritarianism.
The state needs to get involved to protect the unworkable system.
Maybe you are right, at least partially, I can identify many of its flaws myself. However for example my homeland has tried communism/socialism, and went through brief periods of anarchy, and the same can be told about all. My family has lost a lot to all of these experiments (including the current capitalist one), but stability and modest prosperity are the best, and anarchism is as far from that as it gets, especially as represented by the Antifa.
Even the communist regime persecuted anarchism. (though they supported it when it was not at home, as a destabilizing tool)
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Worth noting that at scale larger than family/clan/tribe it beats communism and feudalism on all relevant - to people - metrics.
(though unconstrained capitalism is not ideal)
> unworkable system
? unconstrained pure capitalism has bad effects, but it is not unworkable unlike say pure communism applied at scale larger than a family
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Let's stick to the topic please. Don't dilute the investigation with random detours.
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Is antiantifascism profascism?
>Rose City Antifa also used A/I Collective tools and services to disseminate doxing lists and release illegally obtained personal information of Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement, along with calls for targeted attacks on ICE agents in the streets and “in their homes.”
That's what DHS does. They dish it out but can't handle it when it's done to them. Cowards.
Dishing it out but not accepting it being done to them is exactly what it means to be a monopoly on legitimate violence. When two parties are dishing it out separately to each other, and one of them calls themselves the government, this is called a civil war or at least a terrorist insurgency.
ICE has been harassing, imprisoning, and murdering people for no legitimate reason.
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Statement from A/I Collective about US Sanctions
https://cavallette.noblogs.org/2026/08/10076
Fascism is alive and well
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The far more worrying development is that Tyrant Trump has declared the Palestine Action organization an official terrorist organization, to whatever degree it is an organization at all. Have there actually been threats or acts of violence with political objectives or are we just now calling everything the ruling maniacs don't like a terrorist, as I predicted before the "patriot" act was magically pulled out of a desk on 9/12 and rammed through congress in 6 weeks, before the dust had even settled over the rubble of the twin towers?
That should worry anyone, regardless of whether you agree with them or not unless they have perpetrated some kind of violent acts to scare people in pursuit of political aims like the US government. Trump may only be able to be a Tyrant for about 31 more months at best unless he goes full tilt, but the precedent he is setting will be used against any and all civic and resistance organizations that the ruling maniacs don't like in the future too.
I do not say this lightly, but everyone should be getting serious about what their plans will be when tyranny goes full mask off in the USA and your house and your land and your stuff all the sudden is said to belong to someone else and if you oppose that, you are a terrorist whose children deserve to be shot in the head by government snipers as the try to get water so they don't die of dehydration. No one ever thinks it will affect them, but you are already in the cage, the door is just not closed yet and it's clad in a pleasant facade. What happens when the psychopathic Epstein clan is facing total loss of power because the bond market has collapsed from their evisceration of all trust in the USA and they send their police and military goons after you as you try to scrounge for food to feed your family like in Palestine/gaza? You are the Gazans of tomorrow, you just don't know it yet.
I have been a personal victim to PA's violence and attacks. I could explain more details but essentially, they caused a bunch of damage and assaulted some employees of a workplace simply due to the fact we sold a piece of equipment to our middle eastern distributor that was going to a non-military Israeli company.
The rest of the designations are bullshit
> they caused a bunch of damage and assaulted some employees
Does this look like terrorism to you?
In the US, people get assaulted for political reasons all the time.
Rose City 'Til I Die. Go pound sand fascists. Traitors to the Constitution.
Beyond parody
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They pay plenty of attention, that’s their recruiting pool
In two years and 2 months regime change will swing it back.
And then it will swing back again... some say the two-party system is simply broken
And the culture of hacker news will follow suit, woke 3.0
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I’d do my Gen X duty and trash them both, but we are turning into old people every time I look around. Not just literally, but the mindset. Our mating call is “We drank from hoses and we survived!”
That said, I think a true Greatest Generation would not consist so heavily of guys who sit in the car while their wives grocery shop.
They don’t hate their parents. Their parents defeated fascism but brought some of the war home with them.
Emotional suffering is a memetic disease, an information disease spread by behavior; it makes people sick. The output of one integrated system becomes the input of another, like LLM distillation. Think of a war, or any emotional state, as a packet of information, that spreads like a virus, and infects and modifies the structure of the limbic system, thus transferring the emotional state, the structure of the limbic system, or LLM, from one system to another.
War made the Greatest Generation sick, and because they didn’t get treatment after fighting the sickness of fascism, they brought it home and it made their kids sick. When people are emotionally sick they don’t feel good, and that makes them emotionally inward focused, to the point they don’t have the capacity for much empathy towards others. This makes people appear selfish. It made a whole generation selfish. Because the virus affects the mind, it affects perception of reality and self; people don’t realize they’re sick.
Same thing is happening in Palestine; a group of people who were treated inhumanely are treating another group of people inhumanely. It’s a sickness. An actual sickness.
The Greatest Generation was just flattery propaganda that you use to manipulate people. It'a a bit complicated, but Boomers didn't actually have real functional control over the actions of the USA until about the mid 90s when they ascended to business, political control, and electoral impact. Yes, even though their parents were really The Most Awful Generation, the boomers kind of are left the useful idiots holding the bag in many ways as they were majorly psyopped all their life to similar but different degrees and for different purposes as the millennial, gen z, and Gen Alpha were abused and brainwashed through social media and "TV".
What you ascribe to boomers is really the fault of the most awful generation. For context, the oldest boomers were only 22 during the civil rights era and the youngest were 12. You were never told that and you never noticed it, did you?
Boomers were split nearly evenly between Trump and Harris in 2024. Gen X were the ones that went strongly for Trump (around 54% to 44%).
Millennials were for Harris (51-47%), and Gen Z were for Harris as strongly as Gen X were for Trump (54-43%).
What did it for Trump was voter turn out.
Boomers were around 50 million voters with around 75% turnout, but because they only favored Trump by a percent or two they only gave Trump a small plus of around 750k votes.
Gen X had around 70% turnout for their 50-55 million voters, and with their strong support of Trump they have him a big plus of around 3710k.
Millennials had 60-75 million voters but around 60% turnout. The lower turnout cut their voting numbers to not much more than Gen X which combined with their Harris support not being as strong as Gen X's Trump support means their Harris plus was about 1510k.
Gen Z 40-50 million voters both only around 50% turnout. Their strong Harris support somewhat made up for that and they gave her a plus of around 2470k.
If Gen Z had merely upped their turnout to 60%, like Millennials, that would have turned the election around.
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A/I collective is not being accused of that, but of hosting information and providing communications services.
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things reactionaries say that would be awesome if it were true
Would love to know who your supplier is, for... scientific purposes. FdS is controlled by managers appointed by political parties and the composition depends on who's in power in that moment, surely not "by the people" nor "communist unions".
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Communist unions manager rail systems? Where?
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The definition of "antifa" is broad enough to compass Dwight D. Eisenhower.
mind you, Ike's ending words were about how the US had built a fascist styled war machine
There are certainly people who are Anti-Fascist in the world.
Indeed, there's no such organization. Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha?
Compare to: "You told me The Illuminati [worldwide ancient conspiracy] was a myth, but behold, I have proof of The Illuminati [card game] right here my hands! CHECKMATE, SKEPTICS!"
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
Ha ha, but no, you weren’t. You were told that there’s no such thing as an organized centralized group called Antifa. You were told that it’s an ideological approach to fighting fascism, not a terrorist organization. You were told that labeling antifa as a terrorist organization was going to be an excuse for bringing sanctions against anyone Trump’s administration happens to dislike.
And all of that is true.
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having a hierarchy like that would make the group easier to deal with. similar groups use cell structures or leaderless approaches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaderless_resistance
That always reminds me of a graffiti I saw once, which simply commanded "Anarchy!"... the irony of which got a bit lost on the artist I think...
That doesn't seem ironic at all. It would be ironic if "Anarchy!" had an HQ.
Where's ISIS headquarters? Where's the headquarters of drug gangs?
An organization doesn't have to be centralized, just like communists weren't. This is a lazy argument.
An organization does have to have a clear set of shared plans, toward which it takes a program of coordinated action. That's what an organization is. It's about being organized. A bunch of random individuals who share some opinions, occasionally use similar tactics, may cooperate sporadically, and describe themselves using some term or gravitate toward certain symbols, is not an organization. And it's not clear that "antifa" even does most of those things.
Nor are a bunch of small groups a single "organization" if they don't have some kind of ongoing, systemematic structure for coordinating their actions.
I'm an atheist. That doesn't make atheism an organization.
What do you think _soviet_ are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_(council)
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The communists were very centralized. They held world governments. Even the American communists were centralized.
There was a national Communist Party as well as several Cominterns. Communists are pretty big on democratic centralism.
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I've remember news and reporting about neo-Nazis (adjective) but not a lot of "the Neo-Nazi international terrorist organization..." (singular noun).
Seems like an ideology, not an organization.
If you look at the Treasury wording here: "so-called antifascist groups (“Antifa”)" they do this weird thing where they refer to groups, plural, but give it a singular noun as if it's one big global thing.
And that seems very intentionally misleading compared to, say, "self-described Antifa groups" or such.
It all seems consistent with right-wing/American-evangelical victimization propaganda techniques going back to talk radio in the 80s.
Copy-pasting my comment to the other poster making the same point:
"Antifa" is not being presented as an ideology, it is being portrayed as a global terror cell. The specific purpose for this is to be able criminalize leftist politics, since the state has many more tools to prevent association with foreign groups.
"Nazi" does not have a leader, but the Nazi party had a leader. Atomwaffen had a leader. Various III% groups have leaders. Strangely, these groups are not being linked to foreign right-wing groups in an attempt to make them illegal.
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In America, probably the KKK? They do in fact have a leader and a second in command (not that I know or care who).
"Antifa" is not being presented as an ideology, it is being portrayed as a global terror cell. The specific purpose for this is to be able criminalize leftist politics, since the state has many more tools to prevent association with foreign groups.
"Nazi" does not have a leader, but the Nazi party had a leader. Atomwaffen had a leader. Various III% groups have leaders. Strangely, these groups are not being linked to foreign right-wing groups in an attempt to make them illegal.
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The important part here would seem to be that we're talking about communications hosting. Why would we want to propagate a framing created by a far right terrorist network, just because they've managed to capture the bully pulpit? It's not required to pick any extremist organizations to support, you know.
PKK is an actual terrorist organization, with half a century history of bombing shopping malls and hospitals and responsible for the death of tens of thousands of civilians. If any organization perpetrated even a single of their attacks on US soil or EU, nobody would dare to talk about them as freedom fighters (perhaps instead NATO's 5th article would get invoked and a global war on terrorism would be declared and all perpetrators would be chased down to the depths of hell, until their deaths put on display alongside a Mission Accomplished banner) but since they're bombing Turkish malls and killing Turkish school teachers, f*ck'em, let's put PKK in the same category as Green Peace.
Imagine a 50000-strong armed Native American organization started bombing supermarkets and schools in DC and New York, kidnap and assassinate big-name businessmen, in addition to engaging in cross border guerrilla warfare and say they won't yield until US yields back all historically Native American lands back to them so they can create a new country. Would you put them in the same basket as Antifa or Green Peace? Or how would you feel Russian and Chinese media making ceaseless woke reporting and framing them as freedom fighters and US soldiers and police as oppressors and the root cause, while indirectly bankrolling them and providing them with platform of operations and weapons, and use all of this (their support or protections for the group, and the woke propaganda machine/condemnation of US gov acts) as a political bargaining chip at every chance.
>half a century history of bombing shopping malls and hospitals and responsible for the death of tens of thousands of civilians
That's still a few orders of magnitude fewer than number of Armenian, Assyrian and Greek civilians killed by the Turks, but nobody's calling for Turkey to be designated a terrorist organization.
well, for the americans, the trump and bibi governments were hoping to ally themselves with kurdish terrorist groups to attack and overthrow the iranian government
properly kurdistan should exist, and turkey/syria/iran/iraq should lose territory to make it.
the list of states is arbitrary, and the kurds have just as much right as the turks to a state and government such their violence is consider state acts of war rather than terrorism.