Comment by neya
25 days ago
> it's the one box I can (reasonably) trust to not be mining my viewing habits for data.
It's mind-blowing how one of the most advanced technology forums on the internet can take privacy for granted just because the marketing of a for-profit corporation with previous histories of privacy violations (there's even lawsuits) claims their closed source device connected 24/7 to the internet, is private.
>It's mind-blowing how one of the most advanced technology forums on the internet can take privacy for granted
that's not what I did
> just because the marketing
not just because of the marketing
> of a for-profit corporation with previous histories of privacy violations (there's even lawsuits) claims their closed source device connected 24/7 to the internet, is private.
in other words, they are being watched and held accountable when they do screw up, which obviates a lot of the "well maybe they're stealing your data and we don't know about it" nonsense elsewhere in the replies.
I'll ask something specific: We know that Rokus and built-in smart TVs are actively tracking and monetizing everything you do on your television. People can prove this by looking at what calls are made on your network.
Does Apple do the same thing?
Apple literally does do the same thing. Especially (!) with Apple TV. Go read the eula's again. Apple TV, Apple Maps & Apple News all perform data mining largely akin to how their competitors do it. There are specific carve outs for those three services.
A quick search suggests that Roku does ~380 network requests per hour. LG smart TVs running webOS typically generate regular hourly background checks, plus periodic or continuous telemetry and Automatic Content Recognition requests.
Does Apple TV even do ACR in any form? Is it scanning my network and phoning home about it?
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Unlike their competitors, Apple does not do Automatic Content Recognition (ACR). That matters to me.
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> Apple literally does do the same thing. ... all perform data mining largely akin to how their competitors do it.
Funny how the OP carefully skimmed this part out in their reply, but BINGO, I think this is the attitude we should have towards privacy. Sometimes I just feel like we're talking to a bunch of bots on here when it comes to privacy with their blind support towards for-profit corporations that doesn't give a shit about them.
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One of the products you mentioned is named Home View. It's right there. Both new SKUs ship with their voice assistant interface to Google Gemini (and friends) in an environment where memory and storage availability is being monopolized by cloud infrastructure.
> I can (reasonably) trust to not be mining my viewing habits for data
That's precisely what you did.
The distortion field is powerful.
Keep the firewall of skepticism high.
What is a better solution here? What is something that lets me stream from the major services, has a good-enough remote, and doesn't require any fiddling on my part?
I've always seen Apple TV as the least-bad option compared to Roku/Fire/whatever Google is doing these days/literally any built-in solution.
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> Does Apple do the same thing?
Yes, they did:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-si...
Can you prove they aren't actively doing it now?
edit: link
https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-clarifies-siri-priv...
"Apple has never used Siri data to build marketing profiles, never made it available for advertising, and never sold it to anyone for any purpose," Apple said on Wednesday.
Unintentionally activating Siri and then recording is very different from the active listening things going on. Shared with advertisers was speculation.
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>Yes, they did
This has nothing to do with the specific question I asked, and I'm not sure why you'd think so unless Roku has some kind of Siri-like feature (which wasn't what I was intending when I asked regardless). (also, that's a dead link)
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Of all the major tech companies around the world, Apple has the most incentive to actually deliver privacy, and has the best track record.
The Snowden PRISM revelations showed that all the major tech companies work with the US government and its spy agencies. Can't trust anyone.
Snowden’s PRISM leak seemed largely to be an overhyped internal PowerPoint. The claim was that they have access to data from Apple, Google, Microsoft, et al. But I’ve never seen any evidence that these companies were giving the government access to their servers or some general data pipe. But rather than they were cooperating with legally served warrants.
Is there some actual evidence of collusion with the big tech companies? Because I haven’t seen it. (Telecoms I’ve heard were and are much more integrated.)
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> Of all the major tech companies around the world, Apple has the most incentive to actually deliver privacy, and has the best track record.
Honestly, based on what? That they haven't been caught?
It's a major selling point, for one. They actively sell their products on privacy to the average person and an exposé would harm their image quite significantly.
That said they are not perfect - e.g their wording in their own tracking consent prompts vs the ones they force on others.
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Apple perceives itself as a prestige brand. That perception depends upon consistently high execution and a perception that they’re trying to create beautiful experiences for users.
They want the device to be a mechanism for you to purchase things. Hence the “Apple card” and all the hullabaloo around that. You’ll only use your phone if you perceive it to be secure. Apple’s investments in Secure Enclave’s, sandboxing are all directly linked to their belief that this will help the consumer perceive the safety of the product- and again, it goes back to the perception of the brand.
Quality craftsmanship has properties that outsiders can perceive- even if they don’t understand it. Apple makes those investments.
Google- well, they just make things and then abandon them. Android’s bizzaro world open source is a chaotic mess that reflects the lack of discipline in Google’s leadership.
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My question is what do you connect this TO that doesn't spy. I get you can use a Smart TV and switch to HDMI input but there's no guarantee the TV is not spying on you in some way, if not today then tomorrow these things will come with eSIM support to upload ACR data even when 'disconnected' or connect to your smartphone over some ad tech protocol to do the same.
Yeah, this is certainly already a problem.
I trust Apple for a number of reasons, but I really had to be really aggressive about the TV it’s connected to.
But also, a smaller footprint is a smaller footprint. I’ll take “better” where I can get it.
Today, just don't connect your smart TV to a network, and you should be fine. (Assuming there's no open/passwordless WiFi networks nearby.)
If/when devices start shipping with cellular modems and eSIMs... honestly not sure. Faraday cage? Physically remove the modem? (If that doesn't prevent the device from booting.)
..: Surely the specs (or … whatever compliance paperwork, CE etc?) of the device have to state if it includes a modem or not?
If it does then don’t buy it?
If you want privacy (or anything for that matter), the only way you're going to get it is by user choice. A device that doesn't let you install your own apps is not going to deliver what you want.
You can install your own apps on a Samsung Galaxy.
For privacy, I'd recommend hardware with as few blobs as possible and of course an unlocked bootloader.
I don’t trust them for privacy. I like them for the lack of annoyance. All their competitors seems to want to hinder any activity I want to do. Ads, nagging, notifications, … It’s basically a mental tax.
Apple has their own ad targeting program, and they only need to seem to deliver privacy.
> and has the best track record.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-si...
Yeah, great track record there.
How does this one instance refute the argument you quoted?
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> and has the best track record
Or maybe they are just not caught yet. They are now running ads, where is the data coming for that. They stop others from using the APIs but nothing stop their first party apps to snoop and use the data.
Apple AirTag is the biggest privacy nightmare out there and I am not sure why people keep Apple separate from other data hungry companies
> It's mind-blowing how one of the most advanced technology forums on the internet can take privacy for granted just because the marketing of a for-profit corporation...
This is a common judgement among the technically literate.
> Breaking down why Apple TVs are privacy advocates’ go-to streaming device
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/all-the-ways-apple-t...
On the contrary. This is a place where we don’t have to substitute FUD for facts and analysis.
To me, it doesn’t make sense to rate all levels of imperfection the same. Of course Apple isn’t perfect. But that’s not am important question.
Apple’s the only major purveyor of these kinds of devices whose existential business model is not predicated on privacy violations. Hardly a guarantee of good behavior (and we’ll see what happens in the future). But a lot better than the alternatives.
What's the relevance of it being for-profit? You're assuming that non-profits necessarily have less of a hunger for data?
Fair enough.
Why would you assume that because they disagree with you, they must be ignorant?
Isn't Apple building an ad network? Its only a matter of time.