Tell HN: Using Gmail? You will be force logged into Chrome
8 years ago
So, it turns out Chrome 69 is a lot more than just redesign of the tabs and removal of the www from the url.
I'm using the Mac version of Chrome (Version 69.0.3497.81 (Official Build) (64-bit) to be pedantic).
Up until two days ago, logging into gmail and logging into chrome were two different things, as they obviously are (one is a web service the other is a web browser, to be pedantic again)
I would usually be logged into gmail in the browser, but would only log into Chrome on special occasions and/or with specific accounts.
As of today, if I hit www.gmail.com and log in, I'm automatically logged into Chrome. If I log out of Chrome, I'm also logged out of gmail.
This can't be a bug... can it?
It started with an older version. Logging into Google automatically linked your Google account to the settings page.
At least in the last version, clearing your private data (ctrl-shift-delete) no longer deleted Google cookies. To completely log out required manually digging into the advanced settings and then rebooting the browser.
Google fundamentally doesn't respect user privacy, and people should use Firefox.
I completely switched whenever FF quantum was released to stable. The experience is amazing. I will say I think chrome dev tools are better though.
I tend to reach for Firefox's dev tools (or a node REPL) more often these days. Firefox has a much better CSS editor. I will run some dev tools in Chromium but avoid it for browsing.
Once I saw that my account was linked to Chrome/Chromium without my permission, I cleared everything out of Chrome and stopped using it as a secondary browser. My secondary browser is now a separate Firefox profile:
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To be honest, I've come to much prefer FF's devtools. You might want to take a look at [Firefox Developer Edition](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/), it adds quite a few nice features that are helpful for development. [This article](https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/05/new-in-firefox-61-develope...) is a bit old, but a good look at the type of stuff that it adds.
I keep hearing how awesome FF quantum is. I always have a copy of FirefoxDeveloperEdition for the occasional compatibility testing, and I keep coming back to it over the last few months, the last time being yesterday, but it just feels as sluggish as ever, whereas Chrome just feels snappier until there are hundreds of open tabs. Am I using it wrong?
Also, Firefox tabs are as ugly as ever (lots of thick lines), and the search bar drop down is cluttered as hell. I thought I’d hate the Chrome 69 tab style, but I got over it in a couple of hours; whereas for Firefox I simply can’t.
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I've found the dev tools to be equivalent for most things but each has a couple features the other doesn't. I'm often switching between the two when debugging complex issues.
In general I find the UI for manipulating CSS and the DOM easier in Firefox. The Javascript Debugger in Chrome tends to work a little better when jumping in and out of 3rd party libraries, Firefox will just give up trying to break in your code and just dump errors in the console.
Meh... as long as it's not Safari Dev Tools I'm happy.
Also, last time I checked the Firefox UI uses more screen real estate, leaving a little less space for the content. The difference with chrome is small, but clearly noticeable. If Mozilla fixes this, then they have an additional user ;)
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The biggest feature holding me back from using Firefox is the inability to drag multiple tabs at once. I often "split" a chrome browser window into two this way, or combine two chrome windows into one.
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The only reason I use chrome is the easy debugger hookup for VSCode. If anyone has any tips on how to get that running with FF, I'm all ears!
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Use a separate Chromium installation for dev tools
Alternatively, Brave browser seems to Un-Google their Chromium based browser: https://brave.com/download-dev/
"Brave Core will arrive in beta form in late September and in major release form most of the way through October" https://www.cnet.com/news/brave-ad-blocking-browser-gets-chr...
I'm avoiding Chrome-based browsers as much as possible. I don't think monocultures are a good idea.
I tend not to install browsers and other important software from the internet. Is this packaged by any major distro ? What are the blockers ? Non-free bits, analytics etc. ? Honestly, I wouldn't pick a browswer unless it's packaged by fedora/debian.
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Intuitively, I use chrome only for non google pages and FF for google services. Is that a good approach?
Yup, it's quite old, likely two years or more. And notably, Chromium also has this feature, at least if you enabled the sync previously.
I agree, sadly its never that simple. I tried diligently (all in) to use Quantum when it came out, for over a month. It just wasn't stable/fast enough when running a larger number of tabs. I'm hopeful it will get there soon and I can ditch Chrome but its just not there for me, yet.
You might want to try it again. I have over 80 Firefox tabs open in multiple windows, multiple containers, and two Firefox profiles. It's still extremely fast.
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It might depend on your system resources, but I have +300 tabs open right now and I don't experience any problems. The only thing that's a bit slow is if I restart the browser, it takes a bit long to start up.
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I'm currently using FF 61, I've been using FF for a decade, with no special configuration. I currently have over one thousand tabs open, no sweat. Of all the reasons to prefer Chrome to FF, I don't understand how performance on larger numbers of tabs could possibly be it.
> Google fundamentally doesn't respect user privacy, and people should use Firefox.
This has been true for a many years now but I still see tech people ignoring it completely.
I no longer believe tech people are very intelligent. They are easily lured into whatever good looking tech comes along and will sacrifice their privacy at the drop of a hat.
Tech people were never very intelligent. By definition, they were (and are) informed/educated in one specific discipline, but that has no correlation whatsoever with being intelligent.
This is true regardless of the discipline. You can meet astoundingly stupid heart surgeons, astrophysics PhDs, etc.
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"Google calls the feature "Identity consistency between browser and cookie jar" and a Chrome representative on the official Google Chrome Help Forum confirmed that this is the intended behavior.
>This is an intended behaviour if you are using the same Google Account for your Gmail and Chrome. If yes, you'll be signed out of Chrome when you signed out of Gmail account.
...
Good news is that it is possible currently to disable the feature. Doing to breaks the link between the Google Account in Chrome that is used to sync data and Google accounts on Internet sites.
Note: Google may remove experimental flags like the one described below at any time. As long as it turns up when you run the steps below it is supported.
Here is what you need to do:
1. Load chrome://flags/#account-consistency in the browser's address bar. Google Chrome should display the flag Identity consistency between browser and cookie jar at the top.
2. Set the flag to disabled with a click on the menu and selecting disabled from the context menu.
3. Restart the Chrome browser.
Chrome breaks the link between the Google account in Chrome used to sync data and Google accounts that you sign in using the browser on Google sites."
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/09/08/disable-the-sign-out-link-...
Alternatively just get Firefox, use https://ffprofile.com/ once, and stop dealing with Chrome.
Ta-da, no more spyware.
Yes, this move is a deal breaker. Defaults matter, so I'm switching to Firefox.
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Thanks for the site tip, I will use that site from now on.
Calling that behavior "spyware" is a bit of a stretch.
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1. Less than 1% of the users are going to both hear about and understand those instructions.
2. Google can say >99% of users "prefer" the new setting.
3. Tighten the lock-in.
How does this tighten the lock in?
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You assume that the feature will result in some net benefit for Google (at some potential expanse to users/public) but there's no such guarantee.
Historically, the great Google products are made from scratch (or bought early) and stand by themselves. Their not-so-good products or features are the result of some elaborate corporate thinking that comes out under phrases like "Identity consistency between browser and cookie jar".
So, while they (may) think it tightens the lock-in, it (may) actually end up doing the opposite and be a disservice to everyone.
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It appears this only breaks part of the connection. I removed all Chrome data, created a new profile, activated that flag, signed into YouTube.
While I'm not signed into the browser, it has lifted my Google Account profile image into the browser, so it's still doing some sort of "consistency". It's clear the browser still knows my Google Account.
Image: https://imgur.com/hrEwPqX.png (Note, I confirmed that the about:flag "Identity consistency..." is set to Disabled before/after this screenshot again.)
I continue to be thrilled that I moved back to Firefox around Quantum.
After following these steps, the browser says it's no longer logged in, BUT I still see my Google Account image on the top right of the browser. It's still doing some sort of syncing between my Google Account and my browser. This is too much of a breach of trust, I'm done with Chrome
Just tried this and it doesn't work.
Once again G Suite customers get the shaft.
I have a personal Gmail account, and a business G Suite account, and this change makes working with the two accounts a complete pain. All my years of Chrome bookmarks/settings/etc. are associated with my personal account, so I want the browser itself to always be logged in with that identity. But I want to be logged into my business G Suite email account "by default" when I hit gmail.com, when I open Google Analytics, Drive etc. so I don't have to use the account picker a hundred times a day. It just doesn't seem possible. Argh.
I wonder if Google employee accounts were to be considered business G Suite-like instead of consumer Gmail like, all these kinds of problems that constantly keep popping up for G Suite customers wouldn't be fixed overnight.
Use Chrome Profiles feature which basically gives you an entirely separate browser. Each profile can be associated to an offline/local account or a Google account that syncs everywhere. It allows you to keep personal, work, and anything else completely separate.
https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/2364824
This is not useful to me because it creates multiple windows. I don't want that separation. I want what I have now. It was very good.
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Haha I wish I just had two. I have 6 separate accounts, 4 for various businesses that I use regularly. I have a particular order I have to log into them when setting up a new chrome install so that all my bookmarks work with their respective accounts (&authuser=1, &authuser=4, etc) in things like google cloud console, google domains, gsuite etc.
Note: for actually checking my email, I have ended up using mailspring.
Same here but I use Firefox Containers. Lastpass for password, which is not container dependent so I can auto-login in whichever profile I am on.
> I wonder if Google employee accounts were to be considered business G Suite-like instead of consumer Gmail like, all these kinds of problems that constantly keep popping up for G Suite customers wouldn't be fixed overnight.
I'm not sure if this makes much of a difference to your case. I imagine most employees are using different profiles for work and personal. I always did this.. it makes for a nice firewall as well between accounts (never need to worry about awkward history when I present to co-workers).
add a profile? I have 6 chrome profiles. One for personal, business, Facebook, Twitter, Chromium, Other. 3 of those are associate with different google accounts
The most straightforward solution is to create a separate Chrome user/profile for your work account. It's a great way to keep your private and organizational accounts completely separate. You can even sync all Chrome settings, extensions, and bookmars though the company account if they allow you to use your own devices.
Unlike Firefox (major pain point btw), you can run Chrome with multiple profiles at once, each in a separate window.
Firefox has had profiles since at least 0.8, released in 2004, when it was renamed from Firebird, more than four and a half years prior to Google Chrome's release. This code, however, was inherited from Netscape Communicator 4, released more than a decade before Google Chrome. Hell, Netscape 4 predates Google!
However, since the profile code is so old, it is not accessible from the main interface; it must be accessed via a command line flag. Chrome learned from this mistake and exposed it in the graphical interface.
It is utterly false however to say that Firefox does not support profiles.
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But my workflow! https://xkcd.com/1172/
That's a good suggestion, but I just don't need or want to maintain two sets of bookmarks, install each plugin twice, configure each setting in two places, etc. But I guess I'll have to... sigh.
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Firefox is most straight forward answer!
You might want to look into the custom URL feature of GSuite. https://support.google.com/a/answer/53340?hl=en
I have 2 accounts on my machine. One personal, one work. I’ll admit, I watch things on my personal machine (pornography) that I would not want mixed, even remotely, with my work stuff. Compartmentation.
For all of the features, paid G Suite users get the shaft. Google Home? Nope. Switching between accounts? Nope, that's a pain as well.
Just open your new Gmail and bookmark that page.
Log-out all your accounts from google, then the account you use the log-in first will be the account that gets logged in by default.
Related: Google also tightened the link between gmail and youtube. Logging into gmail logs you into youtube too (which is quite pointless at least for me). This had been the case for a while, but earlier it was possible to manually delete youtube cookies, which would log you out of yt but keep you logged into gmail. They removed this workaround a few months ago. My solution to this was to use chrome only for gmail, and use chromium for everything else. This is poor-man's isolation, for what should be a browser feature (like firefox containers). Also, extensions like cookie-auto-delete don't work nearly as well on chrome as they do on firefox due to long standing bugs in chromium that are likely not getting resolved any time soon. More reason to switch to firefox eventually.
firefox containers work great for precisely this use case
If it's a problem you should stop using both gmail and Chrome. Don't support companies that are anti-user.
My choice to use gmail was made by my employer.
I like my job.
How am I supposed to pass, again?
Are you sure? My employer uses gmail, which I access via Mail.app exclusively. I bet I open the web app maybe once or twice a year, usually by clicking a link in a calendar event.
It's perfectly possibly to use gmail-the-service without using gmail-the-app.
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At least you can stop using Chrome, right?
Sounds like you've made your choice. A bad employer at a job you like is more important than software ethics. No need for my input here. But it is your choice.
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Advice on a good mail service? I've got one foot in the door of really increasing my privacy online but one is still stuck behind with Google products.
Protonmail or fastmail are both decent.
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The cynic in me thinks this is in anticipation of GDPR related challenges. Users that accepted a TOS are easier to track (at least, it's easier to mount a legal argument that some tracking and profile linking is ok) compared to users that never accepted anything at all.
next up: push for new standards that favor chrome over other browsers.
The gdpr agreement form on websites usually requires you to enable 3rd party scripts and cookies otherwise you get hit with endless popups about it. Someone should make a browser extension that automatically denies every gdpr popup.
https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/
This one aims to automatically close all such popups. It doesn't "deny" permissions, but that's what content blockers such as uMatrix are for.
This kind of chicanery is the reason I won't use Chrome for anything but browsing Facebook.
You don't even need that, install Firefox and use their container for Facebook:
https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/facebook-container-extensio...
Even better: Install Firefox and use nothing for Facebook.
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I never use chrome except with gmail and other google services where I have an account. I think there's a market for this kind of systema.
I'm surprised anyone privacy minded still gets concerned about Google as they've been pretty open about everything since the launch of gmail. They give you free stuff in exchange for ads.
Chrome must send data, even if you aren't signed in. Google has a shadow profile for you anyway, so if you use chrome, you're logging to google.
> I'm surprised anyone privacy minded still gets concerned about Google as they've been pretty open about everything since the launch of gmail. They give you free stuff in exchange for ads.
They're open about the fact that they use your data but not as to how they use it. Even if they were, they have a high motivation to abuse it further and further since that is their business model.
Besides, I don't see how being open about invading your privacy makes it not invading your privacy.
Sub out Google/gmail with Facebook and see how that reads.
They didn't tell people that they were buying their banking data. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-30/google-an...
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Can you provide a source for the shadow profile claim?
A while ago I switched to Vivaldi. I have never been happier with a browser.
Even though Vivaldi occasionally releases tarballs, the main browser is a proprietary product. See https://vivaldi.com/privacy/vivaldi-end-user-license-agreeme...
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Unfortunately Vivaldi inherits some of Chrome's bullshit, like if you want to print something it will try use Google's awful cloud print thing tied to your account.
It even has the flag for this account-consistency feature. Who knows if it will be enabled - would you even notice if it was?
Last I checked, they still haven't had stabled cross-device tab sync.
Why do you like Vivaldi?
I'm using it but am fairly ambivalent.
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This causes a few other problems. For example I use Hangouts Chat (chat.google.com) on my Google Apps account, and I also have a personal gmail. Ever since the change I have to log out from my personal gmail to use Hangouts Chat, because it is looking at my Chrome account and telling me that I'm not part of the organization. I can't switch to the Google Apps account at all.
Firefox has gained a feature called multi-account containers several releases back solving exactly this kind of problem in a slick way: Your tabs can be assigned to different accounts (represented by different colors/names/icons (which are configurable). Each account has its own cookies etc, allowing you to be signed in to any number of services while keeping them separated.
I use this feature heavily to separate different clients.
It's also the reason why Chrome/Chromium are now out of the question for personal use: Much to complicated to keep things separated.
But... Chrome has had this feature for MUCH longer than Firefox.
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This is why setting up user profiles is handy in chrome. Keep one for work, one for home.
This is why it's handy to just use Firefox.
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But being logged into your personal Hangouts and using the work Chrome at the same time does not seem to work anymore.
Every Google product I've seen has an account switcher, usually in the top right corner, with either your display image or a letter in a circle, this includes Hangouts Chat.
Yeah it switches me back to the chrome account when I access Hangouts chat. There's no way to switch and visit, or switch after visiting. It always reverts to the chrome account.
A typical tendency in distasteful projects: couple everything, remove choice. Make it one-size-fits-all.
Switching to Chromium.
Chromium was previously downloading a binary blob on its own, which is a bit upsetting:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9724409
I've posted this a few days ago, but I switched from Chrome to Chromium to Firefox to GNOME Web (aka Epiphany) and it's everything I wanted: a stable and mature WebKit browser for all users (not just tech workers) with Firefox sync integration and no Google bullshit.
Chromium has this behavior too, at least if you enabled the sync previously—and it's not new, it's been around for a long time, like a couple years or more.
To make it worse, the Chrome account is always user id = 0. You can't have other account logged in first, then log into Chrome -- it will kick out the first account. This breaks all bookmarks that use particular user, i.e. contain /u/1 or /u/2. What a mess.
It probably is not a bug
Though "Chrome integration" with Google is pointless at best and an awful user experience.
I made the mistake of logging in w/ Google on Chrome mobile. Resulting in all my bookmarks being synced on the phone (because of course I want my desktop bookmarks on my phone. Obviously. Thanks Google). This is a mistake I'm not doing again.
Most people do want that, though. They literally want Google to sync everything for them. Makes sense to me, I don't see your POV to be super common, honestly, except maybe amongst the die hard tech people of hn and such.
In mobile I want/have the bookmarks that make sense for mobile usage. I believe this applies to most people.
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It's not a bug -- it's asshole design.
This is just a grab at getting more user data. Where are all the Google employees who jump on any mention of Google to defend it with disclosures?
How is it more data? This only affects people who choose to set up Google accounts and then log in to them.
What do you mean? I have a gmail account but don't want Google to have my browsing history. How is that so hard to understand?
If you have gmail, consider using an imap client. it might take a bit of tweaking the configuration, but i'd say it's worthwhile.
They'll get rid of that loophole next. Monopolies doing monopoly things.
RIP federation-friendly XMPP gChat
I use my Gmail account as my secondary e-mail address and can confirm IMAP still works. I even use Office 365 e-mail as my tertiary e-mail address in an IMAP client. I have no idea which specific features I'm missing out; from my PoV IMAP4 is the standard and the rest is missing out on that with these proprietary web portals.
I thought I had this experience years ago, I'm surprised this is only happening now.
I use an email app (just regular Mail on the mac) to access my Gmail. Your email is stored and synced locally so it is accessible offline, and you don't get these shenanigans. Also I use Firefox.
But let's be honest, even if you aren't logged in, and aren't using Chrome, at this point if Google is not recognizing you it is only because they are pretending not to. I'd bet they have a pretty good record of my internet activity.
What they mean is to log into the sync feature which is part of Chrome .
This has been around for a long time. You’ve only just noticed it. It’s time you accept that Chrome is spyware and start using Firefox instead.
huh...so that's why chrome suddenly wants to sync my bookmarks to my gmail username.
Firefox it is then. This is a little too shady for my liking.
I stopped using Chrome entirely six months ago. Firefox it is!
Firefox Quantum is really, really good. I was a Chrome user for years but now use Firefox at home and work.
A+++ would recommend.
I was searching for apartments on zillow.com yesterday and a login pop up came up- which included another box giving me option to sign up with my Google addresses. Here's a screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/dYtg5u6.png
It did seem strange to me but I didn't bother because I was busy with the search. Now after reading this post this certainly does not seem strange anymore.
Edit: Like OP, I never logged in to Chrome, only on gmail.com.
Saw that for the first time yesterday. Was really, really off-putting. Felt like the website I was visiting knew about all of my Google accounts.
The Chrome Dev team is off the rails.
For long already I use many personas/users of Chrome simultaneously. It's very useful. Especially when you create a dedicated shortcut to a service/web-site on a desktop or even pin it to the taskbar. So I have direct Gmail icon on my taskbar that launches GMail as a standalone headless window and for a particular Chrome persona. Next is another GMail icon (it's possible to change icons if you need or turn on in W10 taskbar settings illustration of Chrome persona in the bottom right corner) with a different account via different Chrome user. They both work simultaneously. For social accounts I use one persona, for business another, for news and entertainment third. So every session very comfortably is saved and loaded only to a selected persona when I start the session. Since any link in any tab could be opened via a different persona/user it's not a problem to open a link from twitter or facebook in completely different persona where I'm not logged in for socials and basically incognito for the services.
Google will be doing everything to associate your behavior over all boundaries, device, profile, account, job and home as well as private stuff.
This is just one of the many changes that explicitly show that google wants all data aggregated.
You might get by for now by thus technique or that, but eventually Google will close those holes.
Personally I drop Chrome few months ago, tired by it's INVOLUTION. I also drop GMail about an year ago for a personal mail (which cost around 20 euros/year) and features standard IMAP and Roundcube instead of the monster WebUI that GMail have since few months.
Also I'm in process to ditch Google contacts on Android (actually sync-ed one-way via Goobook/XML files since vdirsyncer seems unable to sync many contacts) switching to Radicale on home server and DAVDroid on mobile.
For years I say to many ditching GMail&Google in general: you drop a working solution for another equally held by another company with a mission of making money. Now I have to say they were wright, I still drop a company for another but some others are less parasite than Google.
Sorry for my poor English, not my mother-tongue...
> This can't be a bug... can it?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
(Hanlon's razor)
I imagine all the spooks and blackhats around the world utter a hearty chortle whenever they see someone cite that on the Internet. All they have to do for plausible deniability is plant a few obvious noob mistakes and, boom: that couldn't possibly be a backdoor, it's just a stupid mistake!
The real question is how Hanlon's Razor applies to itself.
You didn't say why this is important to you so it comes off as a bit of a complaint for the sake of it. Are you concerned about your web history going to your Google account? You can turn that off. Don't believe that will really turn it off? Then don't believe that Chrome wasn't already logging your web history without your knowledge. Is it sad that respect for privacy has degraded this far? Absolutely. Is the merging of Google website logins with Google Chrome browser login a significant decrease in privacy? I believe it really isn't at this point.
I've switched over to Firefox and it's quite fast and nice these days.
> to you so it comes off as a bit of a complaint for the sake of it.
People like you really rise my blood pressure. No, it's not important to him/her, bad defaults[1] are important for everyone because they are incorrect design. The correct design is not to synchronize anything before obtaining informed consent.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern
I'm sorry that I raised your blood pressure, and I take your point that I could have worded it better. I (admittedly quite poorly) attempted to push OP to get more specific. That was my only intention.
I completely agree about the dark pattern and I think that's a really good point that I didn't consider at all in what I said.
However, my argument regarding Chrome is that Google carries out tracking so pervasive that it basically doesn't matter any more if they throw a dark pattern like this in the mix. I am still trying to come to terms with how banal this evil has become.
People like you really rise my blood pressure.
May I suggest that this is a very ugly, condescending, dismissive way of talking to anyone. The phrase has no place on a forum like HN.
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I had a separate Ask HN. Tracing some of the history, including Google Analytics that is mentioned in my essay/overview, is quite interesting.
It was a long essay, and I admit I skimmed it, but my main takeaway is: Google gon get ya, almost whatever you're doing.
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ungoogled-chromium is what I use
https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium
This is a great project. Contains many of the patches out there to de-fang a lot of these garbage integrations.
Absolutely, takes a while to compile from source but it's worth it.
I wish I could just have multiple Chrome installs segregated from each other for different purposes.
I used to use Firefox for work and chrome for personal stuff. My new employer uses Google's business apps so it is easiest in Chrome....but that knocks out my two browsers at once system.
Often I'll need something I saved to drive (sample code, doc, something) or bookmarked in my personal account that suddenly was relevant to work.... swapping logins is a pain....
You are fundamentally describing Firefox Containers. They are awesome and they work just like that, allowing you to have multiple independent sets of cookies for each context you need.
That sounds great! But if Mozilla follows the pattern they have set, they will discontinue that extension, just like they dumped Tab Groups, etc. So why should users invest in using it and building workflows around it, when it's probably just another rug to be ripped out from under them?
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You can do exactly that with Chrome profiles, which associates the entire browser profile (avatar, cookies, bookmarks, history, etc) to a single account. This can also be an offline/local only account or tied to a google account to sync everywhere.
https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/2364824
On Mac, I keep separate Chrome windows for personal and work accounts. And I keep them in separate desktops, so I can easily switch using Ctrl-arrow.
Use the --profile option
Your talking about just multiple logins like Google allows right?
I still have to switch back and forth and would rather keep both open.
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I just switched to Brave yesterday for all my consumer surfing. (I still use Chrome for work because Amazon S3's "Open" link has a glitch in Brave.) Been quite happy so far - it's remarkable how clean and snappy the web is when there are no ads.
The advantage over Firefox is that it's still Chromium, so all those websites that are Chrome-only or have rendering glitches in other browsers still work perfectly.
This I can't reproduce with Chrome 69 on the Mac. I just logged into Gmail without being logged into Chrome. Or did I misunderstand something here?
Ever since it came out I started using Firefox' Containers for that purpose and they work like a charm.
Maybe something similar exists for Chrome?
The exact idea behind this unwanted feature in Google Chrome is the opposite idea of containers.
Google continues the war against their own users.
You are not essentially logging into Chrome, well yes you are but only for local purposes and that's not so bad... the link is only local, it will not be syncing any data without your consent, it used to mean that.. and Google DID do very poorly presenting this version of their browser (proven by other posts here)
People have been reporting the same for YouTube in the other direction. Logging off YouTube logs you off Chrome.
Thinking about switching and wanting a couple of recent, non-ideological opinions on how Firefox is better than Chrome? https://fiatjaf.alhur.es/entulho/firefox-vs-chrome.txt
If you're on v68 and want to stop Chrome from upgrading add this on /etc/hosts: 0.0.0.0 tools.google.com
H/T: https://stackoverflow.com/a/36183372/728287
So... I just updated Chrome and restarted it. I'm signed in to my gmail and gsuite accounts. Other than my gmail interface being annoyingly updated without asking me, I'm not being automatically signed into Chrome.
Over the past 2 years I've slowly migrated myself away from Google. I do not use a Google account regularly anymore. I have private email, with my own domain. I use an iPhone. I use Firefox for browsing.
I run a dedicated site-specific browser instance of Chrome for Gmail. That way I don't need to stay logged into Google for any browsing I do in my main instance of Chrome.
Can you break this via the incognito mode? I have two gmail accounts one for work and one private, this is generally how I keep both open. Is this still going to be possible?
Maybe create a profile just for Gmail and other Google stuff? (I do this for Facebook.)
Or multiple profiles if you also have a work account.
For your main profile, don't log into Google at all.
Hey, can't log me into Chrome if I don't have it ;)
Unless they also forced download and installation of Chrome. But nobody would tolerate that, right?
The part when you are logged out from GMail when you log out from Chrome might be a bug. Logging into Chrome when logging into GMail? Don’t think so.
I can confirm on Windows, exactly the same behavior. I guess, it's time to start using Chrome account, never needed it, but whatever.
I’ve been using Gmail, etc in Mailplane for quite a while.
I do note that Gmail sign-in on my iPhone appears to have logged me into it on the YouTube app
You could use Missive to avoid this. It'd let you keep using your gmail account without having to ever log in to gmail in Chrome.
I don't use Chrome or Chromium for years now. It's bloated, slow and eat a lot of precious CPU and memory resources.
Not just Gmail, but I got logged out from other websites as well! [chrome 69, linux, ubuntu 16.04]
So... why is this a problem? If I sign into my Google account, I already get signed into Maps, Drive, YouTube, Gmail, Calendar, etc. Why shouldn't Chrome be part of that list?
I can perhaps understand there being some scenarios where this might not be desirable (depending on exactly how it's implemented), but for 99% of users this is a good thing, isn't it?
This happened to me yesterday on Windows too, to add another datapoint to your sample set.
Will it force me to login to Chrome even if I've never created a Chrome account?
Your google account is your Chrome account.
I noticed similar on Android Chrome. I can't log out of my email in the browser
You can switch 'people' to have one browser for each account you want.
It's time to start replacing Google in your life.
Chrome -> Firefox
Search -> DuckDuckGo
Gmail -> ProtonMail (not strictly, but my recommendation)
Docs -> OnlyOffice
YouTube -> Use NewPipe if you have Android. There's BitChute but it has a lot of right-wing crap.
Play Store -> F-Droid (if using Android)
Google Drive -> Dropbox
Google Maps -> HERE WeGo, or Mapquest
Google News -> Yahoo! News
> YouTube
I’ve been using YouTube via RSS feeds for a while. Requires no logins or anything to youtube, and I can still get the content only available there like Sixty Symbols and Numberphile. It’s great!
For a YouTube alternative I'd recommend hooktube, which is basically Startpage for YouTube. With an appropriately hardened browser it should be fine; if the Bitchute crowd is who Google is removing from YT, I'd say their doing something right for once.
The Qanon crap is literally a 4chan prank.
Horrible. Seems to not work with Google Inbox though.
It did not automatically login here.
Google is getting really pushy about logging in. Can you read any Google Doc file now without being logged in?
Don't be evil?
Why on earth are you using chrome if you cared about that kind of stuff so much?
No,it isn't a bug. It has always been that on android,using chrome browser or the youtube app meant that whatever google account was used in play store is also used to log you into google both on on chrome,yt,maps,etc...
They just brought that feature to desktop,I suppose now you'll be logged into whatever google account last used?
This includes payment info you inputted on the play store or anywhere else.
What exactly is your concern,I can't imagine you'd expect boundaries and privacy to be a thing google would respect with any of their products. They say "don't be evil" but they're pretty wishy-washy and flexible as to what they consider evil. I'd equate complaining about privacy and boundaries with google and fb to complaining about the rude staff and unpleasant patrons in prison.
A lot of people use chrome because it has the best security according to a lot of experts, including here on HN. It’s reasonable to complain about a drift in functionality that spans the web to native gap in my opinion.
I wasn't saying don't use it. Just don't pretend the price you're paying for it is null. Chrome is the most (relatively) secure browser.
Really? Perhaps 10 years ago, but Chrome is pretty ok when it comes to security. This eval that is Google's top result in search [0] has them tied for 6 out of 9 (5.5) and Chromium is better for security.
[0] https://www.expressvpn.com/blog/best-browsers-for-privacy/
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> It has always been that on android,using chrome browser or the youtube app meant that whatever google account was used in play store is also used to log you into google both on on chrome,yt,maps,etc...
That is setting up a system-global login, and having apps use it. That is very different, nearly opposite, from logging into a web page and having that intercepted and turned into a more global login.
They see chrome as the system/OS with users leaving it very rarely(chromeos is the ideal chrome setup). If you look at chrome as the OS and tabs/chromeapps as the apps,it makes sense.
I wonder how does this exactly work technically. I am still working on the essay/overview BTW.
I see all the comments as if its a bad thing, is it a bad thing? I don't hate it.
I hear that Brave and Proton mail are pretty good.
Does this apply to Chromium as well?
Someone else said 'your chrome account IS your google account' They are quite right. Google created an identifier that makes email as an id obsolete, and its called GAIA_ID. You can google it. Basically all of their services are keyed off on their universal gmail gaia_id but they planned on using this even beyond gmail but as a 'universal identifier' to track everyone on every service that interacts with google, such as tying the gaia_id to the apple id, facebook id
You guys really don't get it do you? Google is oceania, it's five eyes / cia-nato and they wanted to have a 'global identifier' to identify everyone on the planet. If they haven't already achieved it (likely they have) then it's something they're aiming for.
google is a technofascist information monopoly, and given that they've been cenosring people politically on youtube by demonetizing and deplatforming them, that should give you pause, in case your opinons 'just so happen to evolve with new information that disagrees with the reigning silicon valley biased cult of opinion called 'the establishment''
sorry I went political here, but software is becoming VERY political. Things in firefox break more and more every day, forcing you to use chrome. FF widevine support breaks all the time, oops there goes NETFLIX and HULU and AMAZON on your linux platform... this kind of thing. Google is widevine, so you better be politically aligned with google or else....no DRM check for you, no video for your customers
Only on Hacker News is the fact that a database has a primary key for user accounts evidence of a global conspiracy against humanity. Here's some bad news for you: literally every company with a website and user accounts has the same scheme.
Why is this a problem ?
Now Google can (potentially) associate your browsing history with your identity, whereas before, any read of one's history would be anonymous.
Potentially? They already have. Now they’re just linking things because they’re wanting easier and convenient access as well as “terms of service” clarity.
I think it’s safe to say google etc don’t require cookies to track you. And they’ve already mapped out any secondary gmail accounts you have. And they have your complete browser history joined from all devices they’ve stitched into your shadow profile which you can’t delete or access. Incognito mode is only good for the little spy guy graphic.
This is the 21st century - all activity is logged for future sale.
Everything you do in chrome is called back to google servers. Even if you block cookies you can look at the network tab in dev tools and see it calling back; also it sends the links you click on to a malware check service (you know, safe browsing) that server tracks everything you click on: no cookies needed; there are also endpoints for transmitting your urls for 'quality of service' (to optimize bandwidth), that tracks, and then all the performance data called bakc to the google servers could potentially have your data steganographically included in that data
There are many things that chrome is doing that are dubious, quasi legal
one thing they could be doing is a kind of reverse beacon or barium meal beacon where they generate a unique code and steganographically insert that as an overlay into images...you won't see the difference when your webpage loads the image, but then some javascript will send that image back to a server, and there you ahve a cross site tracking mechanism. This concept has been used in browser fingerprinting, but now that has evolved with html5 with the canvas tag which generates unique ids and sends that back in order to track your browser everywhere around the internet without needing cookies or websocket sessions or any other newer session mgmt mechanism
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In theory this is true, but Google almost certainly does that anyway using any number of alternate methods.
To think Google ( doubleclick ) and their competitors ( aggregate knowledge ) and others in that space arent already associating your browser history with your identity is a bit naive.
>Now Google can (potentially)
They could do this earlier too. Just needed more recources and still with lesser precision.
One of many reasons: you may trust given computer with your gmail content, but you may not trust it with all your saved passwords. Silently bringing them all in there, if true, this is insanity from a security standpoint.
Data privacy and user tracking.
Hey! You're using Google Chrome and Google services! Leave your expectation of privacy at the door.
You do know that Google is first and foremost an advertising company, right?
One should expect this kind of fuckery when using software and services controlled by such an entity.
There are alternatives, use and/or support them.