Truth is many people also stop moving (exercising) significantly in their forties (reason being probably sitting lifestyle promotes posture and fascia degradation which makes moving less and less enjoyable).
I'd posit that another significant decline in moving occurs in the sixties when many go in rent.
Not sure if the biological clock is cause of abrupt changes or rather our scheduled lives. So, no significant changes from the sixties on? Then what's the genetic function of those programmations?
People who reach old age (100+) are mostly also comparatively healthy.
Without writing a book about it I'll just say that I think the most important thing is people shouldn't look at this info and conclude that their body's going to fall apart no matter what.
I'm in my mid 40s and in the best shape of my life, lots of energy, aches and pains from my late 30s have all disappeared, to get there it took diet and exercise changes that were surprisingly modest. For me it was mostly weights, a little bit of cardio, and cutting back on my worst episodes of caloric excess.
I have friends who didn't do any diet and exercise interventions, and are starting to look like hell and complain about the "inevitable" consequences of aging.
And then there are those jacked dudes in their 70s who are hitting the gym 5 times a week, I can only aspire to be as healthy as them at their age.
I also felt this way in my mid-40s. I still feel this way. But then after a lifetime of perfect vision, one day I was reading a book and noticed that everything was a little blurry. Now I need reading glasses. Not a big deal! I’m doing fine! But a gentle reminder that all the diet and CrossFit in the world isn’t going to save you from a (hopefully) gentle and inevitable decay ;)
I'm in my mid-40's and I'm in the best shape of my life. However it's taken a lot of hard work and sacrifice, that I weirdly enjoy:
* Cooking all meals from scratch (I try and reduce UPFs as much as possible).
* No bread or pasta ever. Fresh non-supermarket bread and pasta is probably OK for you...
* Less alcohol (only on special occasions). Modern no-alcohol beer is actually very enjoyable.
* Lift weights 3x a week. I built a home gym in my garage, with a TV mounted on a wall. It's a great time to unwind, watch YouTube and get fit. It's alone time I look forward to.
* Walk every lunchtime for 20 minutes, rather than browsing the Internet
The key thing about exercise, is that if you don't enjoy it then you won't do it. For me, the alone time watching Youtube or listening to a podcast is the pull-factor. For others it'll be a sport playing in a team.
Food is the major factor in your general health, and we really have fallen into a trap in the Western world with our food habits. Fortunately we have a choice in this regard.
Agree. There's lots you can do to slow the affects of aging. Most of us just don't try.
I'm 55 and found - much to my surprise - that 12 months of carefully progressively and intense running training has improved me from a slow plodder (jogging 5km a couple of times a week) to on track for a 3 hour marathon later this year. Along the way, I'm back to the weight I had in my early 20s, but now also am a lot faster and with way more endurance.
Of course, at 55, I now need to be more careful now about not getting injured. Which means being disciplined about stretching, strength training and recovery. Things I never needed to worry about when I was younger.
So absolutely:
> Use it (with proper care and feeding) or lose it.
Those dudes are almost certainly on some kind of testosterone. It obviously works for some. Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example, has almost certainly been "supplementing" for close to 60 years now. The trouble is we don't know for sure what these individuals have been doing, nor do we know the effects of such "cocktails" on the population at large.
The truth is, both things happen. People slow down — not just because they stop moving, but because life changes. They feel more tired, take on more responsibilities, and have less time and energy for themselves. And yes, sometimes the body begins to decline — gradually or even suddenly. It’s normal, and it happens to many.
If this were true then we'd see that people with active jobs like builders, mechanics, cleaners etc. would have different outcomes. I think many people here who have never done a physical job in their lives would be shocked at how physically demanding these jobs are. Going to the gym a few times a week does not compare to all day, every day on your feet for decades.
Indeed - and I would argue that despite that a lot of comments here and elsewhere anecdotally say that physical exercise helps to prevent signs of aging, some of these people who spend their entire time doing hard physical work do not look younger or healthier. They often look like they've lived pretty hard lives with really battered looking complexions and wrinkles etc - they almost certainly do NOT look "youthful" or "young for their age" - the opposite in fact, at least in my experience.
We in this industry live in quite a bubble in many ways. One of them is we get to chose when we go outside and exercise (mostly), but if you're a builder or a farmer or whatever you are usaully out there doing things, rain or shine.
> people also stop moving (exercising) significantly in their forties
Also likely that people who never experienced the negative outcomes of a sedentary or unhealthy life style start doing so due to the biomolecular changes. Drinking more likely to hurt your liver, soda more likely to cause diabetes, smoking more likely to cause cavities despite having done all that for 20 years without visible problems.
Even with the most charitable steelman interpretation of "visible problems", 2 out of 3 things you've listed have strong evidence for being responsible for weight gain, and even smoking has some weaker evidence supporting it.
When I look into my biohacker bubble, the answer might be: enough sleep, regular workout routine with HIIT, healthy whole foods, no alcohol, socializing
> The real question here: how do we stop these shifts from happening?
Or what happens when we stop them? Perpetual adolescence seems mainstream now. But it would be nice to know if some of these changes should be brought up as well as pushed back.
>The real question here: how do we stop these shifts from happening?
We don't - people inevitably age and die. All you can hope to do is postpone these shifts, and I suspect a large component in the timing is genetic, so there isn't a magical solution that will work for everybody just because it works for the guy posting about the one guaranteed solution for preventing ageing, because it's worked so far for him.
If you throw some data at a clustering algorithm, the clustering algorithm is guaranteed to give you clusters back. So I'm not convinced about the results suggesting a precise pattern of rapid aging.
Anecdotally I feel I noticed a very fast ageing speed between 38 and 40. Suddenly got white hairs, feel more tired, more wrinkles, way harder to keep VO2max up (I run a lot), muscle sores after training suddenly lasting up to 3 days instead of 1, face looks older, etc.
I feel like that all happened real fast around this age.
I'm 38. We had three kids over a period of 8 years. Looking at old pictures I seemingly held on for a long while, until something hit me at 35-36?!
It's like there's two versions of me now, the one who was somehow moderately fit by biochemical decree, with a healthy amount of flesh to his face, voluminous dark blonde hair and a pleasant complexion...
... And the grey haired, weathered, lined, dessicated mummy I see in the mirror. I love my kids dearly but the constant caring really takes something out of you. That and the whole getting older thing in TFA.
I keep telling myself I'll get a gym membership soon to reclaim some of my dignity.
I said I was skeptical of there being a precise pattern of rapid aging. I never said I was skeptical that rapid/non-linear aging can occur. If you did experience rapid aging in the way the paper measured this from 38-40 that is more evidence in support of my point that there is some broad random distribution of when rapid aging occurs and this paper and blog post overintepret the data to mean rapid aging occurs precisely in your mid-forties and at 60.
I'm well into my 40s. I've noticed aging in almost all my friends and work colleagues my age as well as those up to 10 years younger than me. I haven't noticeability aged myself yet though. Don't have any grey hairs, no wrinkles, don't look older than I did in my 20s.
It's not just my perception either, other people assume I'm early 20s.
I can't really relate to the physical stuff though because muscle sores after training was always 3 days for me and it was always difficult to keep VO2max up, even in my early teens. So I guess I just started out in middle age.
Sounds like something someone < 40 would say. To anyone over, I feel like this study is pretty obvious. I'm in my early 40's and whatever change this is, has been discussed multiple times with my peers, active lifestyle or not, wealth or not, married or not, physical career or not. Everything starts to feel a little harder, whether it's exercise, problem solving, memory, sleep, sex drive, appetite, fuckin everything. Things change in your late 30s, for sure.
All young people think they are special and age is just a number. The rest of the population knows that isn't true. Spare me your weight lifting 80 year old, or "my grandpa worked the farm til he was 90" stuff, we all know those are extreme outliers.
Turning 44 this year and none of this has hit me at all? Still staying up all night on weekends, working harder than I ever did (not more hours, though), feeling more motivated to take on both paid and unpaid work outside of my job. And my sex drive just as strong (and just as unfulfilled!) as in my 20s and 30s.
I still stand by my claim that the most common cause of death is chronic iron poisoning, and living past 100 was a regular occurence in the bronze age.
The best explanation again seems that all the modern nutrition is nonsense fed by some double agent to the allies in WW2, (iron, and the toxicity of heavy metals) based supposedly on some secret concentration camp experiments, and nobody is allowed to question it in order to "not let their sacrifice go in vain" or some such bullshit.
Particularly interesting is that when they split the dataset by sex, the transitions were present and at a similar magnitude in both sexes. We make much in western culture of the (peri-)menopausal change in women. I read this as an indicator that at least significant parts of the transition in this age range for men - acknowledged for a long time now - are just as big as menopause.
I don't remember noticing that the last time this study came around, but then again, I am in my mid 40s. :)
> I read this as an indicator that at least significant parts of the transition in this age range for men - acknowledged for a long time now - are just as big as menopause
Sorry but your post as strong #notallmen vibes. The article itself mentions that part of those changes might just be explained by lifestyle changes at 40s. I quote:
> It's possible some of these changes could be tied to lifestyle or behavioral factors that cluster at these age groups, rather than being driven by biological factors, Snyder said.
Changes in women metabolism due to menopause are pretty known and proved, and men don't experience it. I'm a mid-40s male as well.
Probably the same study from this slightly older thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41247085
Yep, both eventually link to https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-024-00692-2 "Nonlinear dynamics of multi-omics profiles during human aging"
Truth is many people also stop moving (exercising) significantly in their forties (reason being probably sitting lifestyle promotes posture and fascia degradation which makes moving less and less enjoyable).
I'd posit that another significant decline in moving occurs in the sixties when many go in rent.
Not sure if the biological clock is cause of abrupt changes or rather our scheduled lives. So, no significant changes from the sixties on? Then what's the genetic function of those programmations?
People who reach old age (100+) are mostly also comparatively healthy.
Without writing a book about it I'll just say that I think the most important thing is people shouldn't look at this info and conclude that their body's going to fall apart no matter what.
I'm in my mid 40s and in the best shape of my life, lots of energy, aches and pains from my late 30s have all disappeared, to get there it took diet and exercise changes that were surprisingly modest. For me it was mostly weights, a little bit of cardio, and cutting back on my worst episodes of caloric excess.
I have friends who didn't do any diet and exercise interventions, and are starting to look like hell and complain about the "inevitable" consequences of aging.
And then there are those jacked dudes in their 70s who are hitting the gym 5 times a week, I can only aspire to be as healthy as them at their age.
Use it (with proper care and feeding) or lose it.
I also felt this way in my mid-40s. I still feel this way. But then after a lifetime of perfect vision, one day I was reading a book and noticed that everything was a little blurry. Now I need reading glasses. Not a big deal! I’m doing fine! But a gentle reminder that all the diet and CrossFit in the world isn’t going to save you from a (hopefully) gentle and inevitable decay ;)
13 replies →
I'm in my mid-40's and I'm in the best shape of my life. However it's taken a lot of hard work and sacrifice, that I weirdly enjoy:
* Cooking all meals from scratch (I try and reduce UPFs as much as possible).
* No bread or pasta ever. Fresh non-supermarket bread and pasta is probably OK for you...
* Less alcohol (only on special occasions). Modern no-alcohol beer is actually very enjoyable.
* Lift weights 3x a week. I built a home gym in my garage, with a TV mounted on a wall. It's a great time to unwind, watch YouTube and get fit. It's alone time I look forward to.
* Walk every lunchtime for 20 minutes, rather than browsing the Internet
The key thing about exercise, is that if you don't enjoy it then you won't do it. For me, the alone time watching Youtube or listening to a podcast is the pull-factor. For others it'll be a sport playing in a team.
Food is the major factor in your general health, and we really have fallen into a trap in the Western world with our food habits. Fortunately we have a choice in this regard.
Agree. There's lots you can do to slow the affects of aging. Most of us just don't try.
I'm 55 and found - much to my surprise - that 12 months of carefully progressively and intense running training has improved me from a slow plodder (jogging 5km a couple of times a week) to on track for a 3 hour marathon later this year. Along the way, I'm back to the weight I had in my early 20s, but now also am a lot faster and with way more endurance.
Of course, at 55, I now need to be more careful now about not getting injured. Which means being disciplined about stretching, strength training and recovery. Things I never needed to worry about when I was younger.
So absolutely:
> Use it (with proper care and feeding) or lose it.
2 replies →
> those jacked dudes in their 70s
Those dudes are almost certainly on some kind of testosterone. It obviously works for some. Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example, has almost certainly been "supplementing" for close to 60 years now. The trouble is we don't know for sure what these individuals have been doing, nor do we know the effects of such "cocktails" on the population at large.
2 replies →
I'm sure there's also an important component of luck and general health there.
5 replies →
[dead]
Regular whole body physical activity (not even gym level hard) is such a gem and a free one.
> Truth is many people also stop moving
The truth is, both things happen. People slow down — not just because they stop moving, but because life changes. They feel more tired, take on more responsibilities, and have less time and energy for themselves. And yes, sometimes the body begins to decline — gradually or even suddenly. It’s normal, and it happens to many.
If this were true then we'd see that people with active jobs like builders, mechanics, cleaners etc. would have different outcomes. I think many people here who have never done a physical job in their lives would be shocked at how physically demanding these jobs are. Going to the gym a few times a week does not compare to all day, every day on your feet for decades.
Indeed - and I would argue that despite that a lot of comments here and elsewhere anecdotally say that physical exercise helps to prevent signs of aging, some of these people who spend their entire time doing hard physical work do not look younger or healthier. They often look like they've lived pretty hard lives with really battered looking complexions and wrinkles etc - they almost certainly do NOT look "youthful" or "young for their age" - the opposite in fact, at least in my experience.
We in this industry live in quite a bubble in many ways. One of them is we get to chose when we go outside and exercise (mostly), but if you're a builder or a farmer or whatever you are usaully out there doing things, rain or shine.
Adequate rest is quite important to prevent the kind of injuries people in physical jobs get.
1 reply →
"in the sixties when many go in rent" autocorrect from 'into retirement'?
Probably german, "Rente" = "retirement"
OP is probably German :)
1 reply →
> people also stop moving (exercising) significantly in their forties
Also likely that people who never experienced the negative outcomes of a sedentary or unhealthy life style start doing so due to the biomolecular changes. Drinking more likely to hurt your liver, soda more likely to cause diabetes, smoking more likely to cause cavities despite having done all that for 20 years without visible problems.
>20 years without visible problems.
Even with the most charitable steelman interpretation of "visible problems", 2 out of 3 things you've listed have strong evidence for being responsible for weight gain, and even smoking has some weaker evidence supporting it.
That's quite well-known already. The real question here: how do we stop these shifts from happening?
When I look into my biohacker bubble, the answer might be: enough sleep, regular workout routine with HIIT, healthy whole foods, no alcohol, socializing
and yet none of that makes even a dent
21 replies →
At what age?
1 reply →
> The real question here: how do we stop these shifts from happening?
Or what happens when we stop them? Perpetual adolescence seems mainstream now. But it would be nice to know if some of these changes should be brought up as well as pushed back.
Isn't perpetual adolescence a lifestyle description, not a biological one?
>The real question here: how do we stop these shifts from happening?
We don't - people inevitably age and die. All you can hope to do is postpone these shifts, and I suspect a large component in the timing is genetic, so there isn't a magical solution that will work for everybody just because it works for the guy posting about the one guaranteed solution for preventing ageing, because it's worked so far for him.
Possibly with a hyperbaric oxygen chamber.
and blood of the young.
2 replies →
strength training
[dead]
I'm wondering if I'm currently hitting '60' early or '40' late.
34, 60, and 78 according to this other one: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2019/12/stanford-scie...
The study in the post agrees on 60, but mentions 44 as the (average? median?) age of another intense change.
If you throw some data at a clustering algorithm, the clustering algorithm is guaranteed to give you clusters back. So I'm not convinced about the results suggesting a precise pattern of rapid aging.
Are you at or over 40?
Anecdotally I feel I noticed a very fast ageing speed between 38 and 40. Suddenly got white hairs, feel more tired, more wrinkles, way harder to keep VO2max up (I run a lot), muscle sores after training suddenly lasting up to 3 days instead of 1, face looks older, etc.
I feel like that all happened real fast around this age.
I'm 38. We had three kids over a period of 8 years. Looking at old pictures I seemingly held on for a long while, until something hit me at 35-36?!
It's like there's two versions of me now, the one who was somehow moderately fit by biochemical decree, with a healthy amount of flesh to his face, voluminous dark blonde hair and a pleasant complexion...
... And the grey haired, weathered, lined, dessicated mummy I see in the mirror. I love my kids dearly but the constant caring really takes something out of you. That and the whole getting older thing in TFA.
I keep telling myself I'll get a gym membership soon to reclaim some of my dignity.
10 replies →
I said I was skeptical of there being a precise pattern of rapid aging. I never said I was skeptical that rapid/non-linear aging can occur. If you did experience rapid aging in the way the paper measured this from 38-40 that is more evidence in support of my point that there is some broad random distribution of when rapid aging occurs and this paper and blog post overintepret the data to mean rapid aging occurs precisely in your mid-forties and at 60.
I'm well into my 40s. I've noticed aging in almost all my friends and work colleagues my age as well as those up to 10 years younger than me. I haven't noticeability aged myself yet though. Don't have any grey hairs, no wrinkles, don't look older than I did in my 20s.
It's not just my perception either, other people assume I'm early 20s.
I can't really relate to the physical stuff though because muscle sores after training was always 3 days for me and it was always difficult to keep VO2max up, even in my early teens. So I guess I just started out in middle age.
Sounds like something someone < 40 would say. To anyone over, I feel like this study is pretty obvious. I'm in my early 40's and whatever change this is, has been discussed multiple times with my peers, active lifestyle or not, wealth or not, married or not, physical career or not. Everything starts to feel a little harder, whether it's exercise, problem solving, memory, sleep, sex drive, appetite, fuckin everything. Things change in your late 30s, for sure.
All young people think they are special and age is just a number. The rest of the population knows that isn't true. Spare me your weight lifting 80 year old, or "my grandpa worked the farm til he was 90" stuff, we all know those are extreme outliers.
Turning 44 this year and none of this has hit me at all? Still staying up all night on weekends, working harder than I ever did (not more hours, though), feeling more motivated to take on both paid and unpaid work outside of my job. And my sex drive just as strong (and just as unfulfilled!) as in my 20s and 30s.
1 reply →
Is it possible that scientists employed at Stanford will have also had this insight, and worked around it?
possible, yes. did they? that's the question
3 replies →
It is also very possible that they have big incentives to ignore those just to get something published, don't you think?
Sounds like I still haven't gone through the molecular shifts that would have made me forget when this was first posted.
After a certain age, it's important not to give a shit about irrelevant things. Otherwise the stress catches up to you.
Finally, science has confirmed what our grandparents told us for generations.
Ringo Starr even sang the song, "Life Begins at 40".
There is a very famous German song with the (translated) title "Life begins at 66".
So here we have it, 40s and 60s, no science required.
I still stand by my claim that the most common cause of death is chronic iron poisoning, and living past 100 was a regular occurence in the bronze age.
The best explanation again seems that all the modern nutrition is nonsense fed by some double agent to the allies in WW2, (iron, and the toxicity of heavy metals) based supposedly on some secret concentration camp experiments, and nobody is allowed to question it in order to "not let their sacrifice go in vain" or some such bullshit.
Particularly interesting is that when they split the dataset by sex, the transitions were present and at a similar magnitude in both sexes. We make much in western culture of the (peri-)menopausal change in women. I read this as an indicator that at least significant parts of the transition in this age range for men - acknowledged for a long time now - are just as big as menopause.
I don't remember noticing that the last time this study came around, but then again, I am in my mid 40s. :)
> I read this as an indicator that at least significant parts of the transition in this age range for men - acknowledged for a long time now - are just as big as menopause
Men emerge from it with their fertility intact.
Sorry but your post as strong #notallmen vibes. The article itself mentions that part of those changes might just be explained by lifestyle changes at 40s. I quote:
> It's possible some of these changes could be tied to lifestyle or behavioral factors that cluster at these age groups, rather than being driven by biological factors, Snyder said.
Changes in women metabolism due to menopause are pretty known and proved, and men don't experience it. I'm a mid-40s male as well.