Nokia's made institutional mistakes that doomed Nokia phones before hiring Elop. (I was there).
In a sense Nokia was (organizationally) victim of its own success. During the dumb phone and feature phone era Nokia did everything better than others. Everything from the supply chain management, to the phone design and manufacturing worked so well. Why would you sideline leaders and organizations who build all that and wanted to build on that.
When Netflix made the decision to move from mail-based rental to streaming, they did not allow leaders involved in rental business to any meetings involving the company future planning. It's one of the best organizational decisions ever made.
Nokia had multiple choices to stay in game at the beginning. Adopt Android and be like Samsung. Create a new internal Linux based computing platform. Instead, Nokia allowed more senior leaders Symbian/Feature phone teams to interfere and sabotage in multiple big and small ways because their teams still made all the money. As a result, the response to Apple and Android was constant internal reorganization and failed American style compensation structure that caused talent to leave the company, not new stuff.
The teams that did Maemo stuff etc. weren't allowed to ship any features before the Symbian side (which had more political and monetary power) had achieved feature parity...
I never understood this memo. All they had to do was to switch to MeeGo. There was no burning platform.
Hardware was great and software was great, but needed a bit more polish. MeeGo was more advanced than iOS in many ways at the time of this memo, and Maemo had been released way before the iPhone. The 770 was released in late 2005 and it was totally futuristic.
However, Elop had no interest in going this route. When MeeGo was released they dumped the project publicly shortly afterwards and then N9 was sold with no advertising. Despite this, it had a phenomenal demand.
My company back then did some NDA'd research prototype work for Nokia about Linux and touchscreens. My personal conspiracy theory always was that they had tied the company so strongly to Symbian that they just couldn't announce anything else. I hypothesized that they only got some big companies on board Symbian by promising to be "exclusively Symbian for X years" -- and the X ended up being too long, the industry moved on before they could move off of Symbian. Or they were just too afraid of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
They had everything they needed to run Linux on (some of) their phones quite early on. Battery life might not have been great, but they had plenty of Linux-running mobile hardware around, kept in bags outside of the building.
> When Netflix made the decision to move from mail-based rental to streaming, they did not allow leaders involved in rental business to any meetings involving the company future planning.
I wonder, who was the “they” that successfully made such a decision? In most places, there wouldn’t be any senior leadership that isn’t “tainted”, so to speak, by the previous business model. Even a freshly appointed CEO is ineffective if not supported by the bulk of the organization. I wonder how Netflix managed to solve this.
A different example, from Amazon. The top down directive from Jeff was to build every new initiative in total secrecy completely cut off from rest of the organization. To an extent even the building would be cordoned off for other employees. Kindle reader, Eco line of devices, AWS and so on.
I guess the reason was to let them move fast and deliver 0-1 product without being shackled by existing strictures, including the leaders with vested interests. They would hire whole division worth of people within weeks. The downside was a whole bunch of duplicate systems, as everyone would build their own payment processor, order management, UI etc. The results are starting to show as AWS is struggling to piece everything together as coherent higher order offerings. Like there are some two dozen ways to control access, a dozen ways to deliver notifications and so on.
Reed Hastings was a founder and principal initial investor. He owned 70% of the company, so it was probably down to him.
There was a recent thread where Bezos was quoted as being against bet the company moves. I get where he’s coming from, ideally you’d avoid getting into that position, but faced with a fundamental technological shift like that, sometimes it’s just the right thing to do.
As an aside I’ve been at two companies that were sunk by mismanaged bet the company moves. In both cases they actually had plenty of time to change course, but management was so heavily invested in their pet project that by the time reality has punched them in the face hard enough to wake them up, it was too late.
I am Brazillian, and here this Nokia strategy was working just fine.
Android back then was crap, iPhone and Blackberry too expensive.
Symbian phones were spreading like wildfire in dry grass, people were switching from dumbphones to Symbian, and the community was having great growth, I saw children looking online for tutorials how to learn coding so they could make Symbian games, there was even a bootleg Counter-Strike for Symbian.
As soon the demo came out, Symbian sales tanked, and people switched instead to random cheap and crap Chinese phones, a popular one was "hiphone".
The effect in my view was devastating, all the hacking community that was starting, suddenly died, what proliferated now was poor quality phones or people doing crazy things (one waiter sold his kidneys to buy an iPhone, literally). Nokia had a very confortable first place in market share in Brazil, in a few months they had became irrelevant.
And now the effects are still felt, in Brazil it is hard to get a decent phone without going into debt, a lot of good phones with interesting features are not sold here, and you can't import them either, because the proliferation of chinese cheap phones that caused all sorts of trouble, the national regulator decided that they will ban from the cell towers any phone that they detect that doesn't have official permission to be sold in the country, this means there is no FairPhone in Brazil, no Shift phone, no Jolla, and so on.
And sadly, not even Nokia themselves are bothering with us anymore, they recently released some fairly interesting phones with WhatsAPP support using FireFox OS (KaiOS), and didn't bother asking permission to sell them here, so they can't be imported.
I agree, you can't just kill it. They clearly had to migrate to Megoo on the high end, but they should have continued both systems for some time to come.
I’d not heard that about Netflix before but it makes a lot of sense. The Apple case is an interesting counterpoint though. They seem to have a pretty solid culture of consensus and collaboration between teams at the top. But then they have an unusual functional organisation structure rather than being organised around product divisions. This means the functional teams have a stake in (basically) all the products, so don’t have as much of an incentive to play favourites. It’s just a different approach to addressing the same issue.
Ah yes I remember it being made a big thing of, like it was revolutionary or something, when I joined - however in the UK we'd understood functional vs product and indeed matrix management since forever. Welcome to the 1970s theme park that is the US I guess!
Sounds like classic Innovator's Dilemma: The money was in the old tech, the market was moving to new tech. They listened to where they money was instead of where it was going.
I had an early Nokia Linux tablet (770, I think?), and I really liked it. I was very sad when Elop turned over the keys to Microsoft. Not surprised, though.
> They listened to where they money was instead of where it was going.
You have to do both. A company pivoting to a new technology too quickly can run out of steam if there’s no adoption and no stable business to keep it afloat. The challenge is to make sure that your legacy team doesn’t stifle your innovation team yet remains profitable as long as it is strategically beneficial.
I am not sure Android could have saved Nokia. Samsung survived in smart phone business because of their display and memory. Chinese smart phone makers was able to compete because of the enormous support from CCP. I was on another oil platform call "HTC" when Nokia platform was "burning". Eventually HTC went down too.
People claim this about literally every single thing China was successful at. A government can't just magically make its companies successful in every single industry.
What did the CCP do exactly to make these phones better?
Edit:
Also, HTC didn't exactly have the market dominance of Nokia. So not sure the situations are comparable.
> In a sense Nokia was (organizationally) victim of its own success. During the dumb phone and feature phone era Nokia did everything better than others. Everything from the supply chain management, to the phone design and manufacturing worked so well.
They are still the best, Nokia "dumb" phones feel a bit like the f91 Casio watch... but just like those watches, they aren't as popular as they once were.
For people who want a no bullshit, inexpensive, bulletproof, practical phone that lasts and isn't horrible to use, Nokia is still the best. But without competing with smartphones Nokias only other option was to downsize, because as great as they are dumb phones are no longer popular enough - so as you say they were a victim of their own success, they reached a size that was unsustainable in the face of what was to come.
I think Nokia had a third choice: Explore new market segments.
Personally, I want a smartphone along the lines of traditional Nokia phones: Big and tough. I'm glad to have something double the thickness of a normal phone, but:
- The screen shouldn't crack if you squint at it funny (bezel is fine)
- The battery should last a week (double, or more, the thickness of modern smartphones is fine)
- The cell coverage should be spectacular. Again, thickness means more space for antennas.
- It should have good cameras, at least 1080 resolution
- Standard plugs and jacks (USB-C, headphone, SD, dual SIM, etc.)
- Ideally, software updates forever, as stock Android / open source as possible, as little tracking as possible, etc.
- Ideally, stylus (with built-in storage)
- Good security, app sandboxing, no data collection, no cloud sketchiness, reasonable ToS
I think there are a lot of corporate segments as well. Increasing size should also cut down on NREs and allow more modularity, making it easier to make niche devices. I think there are enough markets to have a diversity of devices if NREs can be brought in-line.
That anecdote about Netflix is not correct according to a friend of mine who was a manager there at the time. Quote below.
“It wasn't until the streaming business was massively ahead of the DVD business before the execs on the DVD side weren't going to the overall strategy meetings. A lot of us had roles on both sides until like 2012ish when there was a clear split internally and a DVD-only executive team was officially set up.”
They did, Nokia launched their first Symbian smartphone in 2001, the Nokia 7650. iPhone was launched in 2007. The Newton of 1997 is not exactly a phone, so I don't think it counts here, but if it does, so does the Nokia Communicator 9000 of 1996. Either way, Nokia was first to market.
Apple had the advantage of a nicer product, and was building products for the US first, rather than US maybe later. Tech news is mostly (but not completely) based in the US, so Nokia smartphones got little coverage as they were often unavailable or non functional in the US. Different GSM frequencies meant different builds, and CDMA was an even more different build. And Nokia had messed up relations with US carriers at a time when phones selling through carriers was the primary method of reaching customers.
I worked at Nokia as a SWE in Berlin when that email dropped into my inbox. A few days later, it reached the press. We mostly thought ok, fine. What’s next?
Before that, we’d been building an app for Nokia N97 handset users, an ever-decreasing market - all the engineers on the team had iPhones.
We thought after that email that the next step would be to go on Android. Sure, Nokia would contract a little as it lost its platform, but the platform wasn’t that valuable. It was the great handsets - software wasn’t Nokia’s forte - the leadership structure just didn’t have the vision to bring it together.
When the meeting rolled around, we all went to a big conference centre at the heart of Berlin to watch the announcement of the future vision. Stephen Elop appeared on a gigantic screen, talked a bit before laying down the new vision. It was going to be Android, right? It made perfect sense, the ecosystem was growing and aligned to Nokia. But, no - Stephen announced that the future of Nokia was with Microsoft.
I walked out of the conference when I heard that - standing outside of the conference hall. I knew two things at that moment. One, there wasn’t going to be a future for Nokia - there was no way Microsoft under Ballmer’s leadership could produce an ecosystem. Secondly, I realised that Elop was still Microsoft’s man - He didn’t make the logical choice that fit with Nokia’s culture - It was going to be a takeover by Microsoft.
The project I was working on soon got a new boss. We thought this would align with the new vision of the company. He took us into a room and projected a picture on the wall of a mountaintop surrounded by clouds. He said, “I know you must feel a bit like this, unclear about the direction, clouded about what the future holds. Don’t worry… I also feel like that, too”.
The new boss did eventually make a decisive decision - the N97 app that we were building was to be kept, but it was going to be focused on an even smaller niche of the market, N97 users who were pro skiers. I left soon after.
The takeover by Microsoft did eventually happen, and the rest is history.
If anyone wants to know what it was like at the time, for SWEs working anywhere in Nokia's phone division, this post captures it perfectly.
People sometimes think that we can see Android was the right route only with hindsight. No, every engineer at the time knew that Android was the right way to go and that there was huge opportunity for Nokia there. Sure enough, in the following years we all had to read reviews of Nokia's phone that always concluded: "The handset is fantastic, if only it was running Android". I won't bother going into all the reasons that Windows Phone was a disaster. Elop used some nonsense justification that Android would be a 'failure to differentiate'.
Ultimately though, I take a different view about what the real strategy was. The Nokia board had seen their phones business drop in value from around $120b to around a third of that. They wanted to get out, whilst there was still something left to sell. Choosing Windows Phone effectively saddled Microsoft with the risk too (a joint future), and at that point it was obvious they would have buy the unit entirely in time. Elop wasn't a Trojan horse, the Nokia board saw Microsoft flailing in phones and used their riches to get out.
It's sad because Nokia could have been an Android powerhouse. Particularly getting in early, with really interesting hardware innovation. But someone wanted to cash out. They weren't happy to risk having a phone business worth not 40bn but nothing at all.
The last company I worked for used the “burning platform” story a few years later after Elop’s memo. It was true, but it didn’t work.
The rank and file have no idea what to do with this information. The new platform looks great, but it isn’t proven, doesn’t replace the margin targets for sales, and the marketing is split telling the new story while trying not to accelerate the fire. Customers don’t know us for the new platform, so large effort is invested trying to get the smallest of wins at new clients. Invariably, the staff don’t really understand the new platform, quality is lower than the burning platform. Client decides this isn’t something you are good at, sales gets burned and says no thanks. Executives say, oh shit, our finances are a catastrophe, focus on the burning platform. We need quick wins!
Layoffs throw a bunch of people off the platform, repeat until the business is 10% of size, and languish for years with mediocre executives (well paid for skills /competency as no one that has a clue will work for them). People that should resign do the work for 8 people until they burnout. The situation messes with people’s minds and they stick around even though they know they must leave.
The analogy makes sense, but thought out, it is apparent why it can’t work. The whole business leaps from a platform, not to another platform, but to a life raft. It has no stability, can’t support the same people, processes, or way of thinking. Eventually it capsizes and sinks, or is collected by someone with a platform who will extract the last of the value as it goes away silently in the night.
Elop gets lots of shit for his role in this but to be fair, he was just the front man. The real power was with the board and in particular the ex-CEO Jorma Ollila. It was the board who hired Elop and it was the board who weighted and eventually made the call to go with Windows Phone instead of Android.
In a proper public company, crucial strategic decisions like these are not CEO-level but board-level. The CEO is called chief executive officer exactly because he executes the strategy set by the shareholders, whom the board represents. And that's exactly how it went down here. You can read it all from the 2014 book "Operation Elop" by Pekka Nykänen and Merina Salminen, Teos Publishing.
It might even have worked out.
Just that Microsoft still doesn't know how to run a proper app store besides the XBox Games one until this day.
They flooded this thing with crappy apps anyone could submit for some weird incentives just to get their weird app store metrics up, making the user experience horrible. I wonder what would have happened, if they ran a properly curated platform, where they didn't allow for keyword spamming. At a time Windows Phone had pretty much all the apps you needed back then and a more then decent camera at a competetive price.
I got a ton of free Nokia phones back in the day through these weird incentive programs. I was told at a meetup by one of the employees that each Microsoft division was to get N number of new apps in their local store each quarter, and they’d have developer programs along the line of “publish 5 Windows Phone apps, get a free Lumia phone.”
There were zero requirements other than publish N number of apps, there was zero form of quality control. I was a freshman in college at the time, could barely code my way out of a leetcode at that point and I’d have five calculator-esque apps ready to go whenever my local Microsoft division dropped a Tweet saying a new program was live since there was only a limited amount of phones.
Felt real good for me and my buddies but ironically we were left with phones that had these junk riddled app stores, amazing hardware devices though.
But yeah, Balmer did great developing the B2B side of things, consumer devices wasn’t it.
Crappy apps might be a problem, but what was a bigger problem was that every major release of the platform came with a new application framework, and developers would have to pick between using the old framework to keep existing customers and live with suboptimal experience on new devices, use the new one and drop support for old devices, or spend even more effort on supporting both (or really all three). Compare to iOS, where most users update to latest OS within months, or desktop Windows where win32 works for everything, or Android where version gated features don't usually require massive changes to enable.
It would have been nice if they didn't copy Apple so hard, leaving out copy and paste and restricting browsers in the store weren't the best decisions for an upstart platform. Mozilla had been excited to port Firefox early on, but Microsoft told them no, so WP users were stuck with Mobile IE and much later in WM10, the amazingly worse Mobile Edge.
Yeah I remember hearing that announcement about incentives and thought it was obvious that crappy apps would come to dominate the store.
Two things would’ve made the App Store better:
- First-party apps using the same SDK as third-party apps. This would’ve forced the third-party sdk to be awesome from the beginning, but it also would’ve delayed the launch of WP7 by at least 4-6 months. It wasn’t until a couple years later that some first-party apps switched to the public sdk and improvements were made, but by then it was too late.
- Google allowing us to build official apps for YouTube and maps. We even offered to build and maintain it, but they simply refused to allow those apps to exist on our platform.
I still had a wonderful time working on the product 2008-2012, but it’s really a shame WP never made it as a viable third platform.
To these days their gesture navigation implementation is the best. And they had Swype keyboard preinstalled.
Speaking of apps: Here maps, SoundHound, amazing mail client and calendar...
Gosh I miss that phone.
I used mine for about 3 years, I think, and sold it for more than a half of its original price in literally a couple of hours (which means my price was too low).
By the time the software started showing its age: no banking apps, browser failing to display more and more modern sites...
I believe, they should have pushed with Meego. With vendor support their OS could've been a hit.
Symbian was the biggest problem with Nokia phones. The hardware was always amazing.
I owned a Communicator 9290, and have yet to have a phone that performed as well on speaker. Bar none. Noise cancelling and volume both. I had an e90, and although it was less amazing on that front, the build quality, and look at feel just was... Great!
I'd pay iPhone Pro prices for (basically) an e90 running Android with a decent camera. Nobody's made one yet, but I keep hoping. And yes, in a matter of weeks I'll have my Astro Slide from Planet Computers, but I have little doubt the form factor will still fall short of the dream of a truly pocket phone you can type decently well on.
The N9 was not Symbian though. What I read was that there was a serious management culture issue at Nokia. Even before Elop Meego efforts were seriously sabotaged by the Symbian camp (the N9 was significantly delayed for example) .
Mind you that memo and the decisions made were either incredibly stupid or part of a strategy by the shareholders to break apart Nokia. I mean apart from the fact that you tell the public that you don't believe in your product while selling it, they also decided to axe the Meego version N9 successor even though it was essentially ready. Many believe that was done to not risk it being a success, which would have revealed the whole strategy change to be wrong.
> Symbian was the biggest problem with Nokia phones.
I actually miss it, those were simpler times where your phone didn't spam you with ads or notifications or didn't get outdated every 2 years. No constant data collection or surveillance to the scales we deal with now.
More so, I actually miss the feeling of how new everything was, in the sense that is you wanted to play some games you'd sometimes scour WAP sites for the game files (or pay exorbitant fees through magazines).
There was a certain charm to games back then, too, seeing what people could knock together with Java on such a limited platform. Games like Gravity Defied, Galaxy on Fire or Gish, or even Doom RPG.
I'm kind of nostalgic, admittedly, maybe for a time when not everything was so well optimized towards monetization. And before Wirth's law became so present on our devices.
Linux and Nokia were at one point the Crown Jewels of Finnish tech. One still remains. Would’ve been a match made in heaven but I believe they needed Microsoft’s cash to keep the company running. I remember testing the N900 at their store and was really impressed but I think it was too little too late
N900 was awesome, but it wasn't what the masses wanted. It had a lot of quirks, like UI freezing when someone calls you so you couldn't answer the call and suffering from slowing down over a relatively short period of time while being price competitive with the other high end phones.
The N9 was a regrettable purchase for me. I even feel that Nokia owes me, all these years later!
Paid a lot for the 64 gig N9. Soon after Nokia abandoned the OS, and I felt ripped off.
I remember the flash refused to stay off. I would disable flash for a photo, but next time I used camera the flash was back on. This was enough to move to a phone that remembered the flash setting.
Years later I tried to start my N9 but it was demanding a password that I didn't know. Some kind of recovery password I never knew I had set up. There was no way I could find to reset the phone even to factory settings. It's basically bricked with no way to restore, so I couldn't even sell it as a working phone.
My experience with the N9 was great, and never left me wishing I could go back to something more like a Sharp Zaurus with modern cell connectivity.
What is it that makes the N900 appealing? Is it strictly the physical keyboard? So the N950 would have been the N900 killer? Or was there something else about it?
Nokia transit / HERE transit was my favorite public transit app back when I used windows phone. It had a unique way [1] of presenting transit options that was far more convenient than the simple list that every other app does. Sadly the current HERE WeGo app also does the simple scrolling list, so I see no reason to use it.
Did you try the Jolla phones? They tried to carry the Meego torch in their Sailfish OS (which currently works well with "last year's" Sony phones). Even though it has different UI decisions than the N9 I found it reasonably good over time, and today some of it's decisions (like using swipes for navigation) made their way into other mainstream mobile OSes.
That thing had also fully functional car navigation with all maps for free, and it had busybox shell... gosh how miserable are we now with smartphone options...
The N900 did NOT run Meego. I agree with OP 100% that the N9 was an amazing phone. Honestly it was brilliant. Super smooth and well thought out. Polished too. With an android emulation layer on top it could have been a success. Alas Nokia got Elop’d.
Applications. You can't take an existing Windows app and run it on Windows Phone, because the APIs are not there. You can take an existing Linux app and run it on Meego, because it's just a regular ARM Linux with a custom UI.
Microsoft backing is a help? Seems to me having the backing of the Linux community would have been way better.
Making UI for mostly existing apps, porting lots of existing apps over. Lots of free continues investments. Like you get other companies on board who use the same basic distro and apps and help with bug fixes and so on.
You can use the same distro on phones, tables and even sell laptops with that software on it.
And you can do all of that for no cost to anybody. Every single Nokia with Windows gives money away to Microsoft.
I'm not saying this is a great letter, but he wasn't wrong. I owned both Symbian and Maemo devices, and the experience (both to use and develop) really was this bad. That's not to say everything about it was bad, or that there was nothing to like (as HN comments have often pointed out, there was), but it didn't hold a candle to iOS, or even Android. (And Android in those days was pretty hideous.)
Now what Nokia did in response... that may not have been right either. But they had to do something.
The letter talks about a man standing on a burning platform choosing to jump into the icy waters instead.
In this metaphor, Nokias actions were neither staying on the platform not jumping into the water but shooting itself in the head instead.
If the internally Nokia OSes were not going anywhere, which looked to be the case from the outside, the obvious solution was to go with Android. Something that already had the user base, had the apps, had the platform, was open source so it allowed for innovation and differentiation, and Nokia could tailor it to work well with their hardware.
Instead, he chose to go with Windows Phone which had absolutely no benefits. And had severe restriction the kind of phones Nokia could create and on the modifications they could make (they could barely even reskin it) and did not allow Nokia to leverage any software or hardware prowess they may have had.
Android was a choice. Not the obvious one. Seriously how many Android manufacturers are really successful? Samsung? Google? Pretty much everyone else is completely interchangeable in the crowd of low cost devices.
LG, HTC, Sony …etc have all but disappeared and they all chose Android. Sony especially had some solid hits back in the day.
Microsoft utterly failed Nokia but I don’t consider the decision at the time to be a terrible one.
But N9 was not a maemo it was Meego. It was incredibly polished it definitely was on par or better than android and IOS of the time.
While some of the assessments in the memo might be correct (it took way too long to get the N9 out for example), shouting this out to the public is incredibly stupid. I mean he is lamenting the fact they only have one top of the line phone out, but then decides to completely axe the system (and the pending new tip of the line phone) for making them and only sell the Symbian version which he just decried as being for lower end phones. And then wait another year or 2 until they have a Windows phone, a platform that they don't control and where they are completely reliant on MS and which is totally unproven?
Edit: OK reading up again, it seems I misremembered. It was actually the N9 which was the Meego phone released after the memo. It was essentially released that you had to be order specifically through an online system only at Nokia. It still gained wide critical acclaim, but at that point was poised to fail already.
> it took way too long to get the N9 out for example
...which is mostly because of infighting with Symbian team. Nokia N810 was supposed to be a phone already. Nokia N8 was supposed to me a lower end Meego device. Both didn't end up that way because of internal politics.
That his letter pointed out a real problem never seemed controversial. The shocking part was tying themselves to MS without a reasonable backup plan.
They thought they couldn't build hardware good enough to compete with other Android makers, but somehow convinced themselves that the solution to that was to put their less competitive hardware onto a less competitive platform.
> That his letter pointed out a real problem never seemed controversial.
Only in retrospect. At the time, the internet was full of people who thought Symbian was Just Fine. And they had sales figures of millions of (mostly 12-key) "smartphones[0]" to prove it. And then this shifted to "Lost Causeism" when whatever MooMooMo platform never got off the ground.
[0] Okay, I had one of these and you could check your email or do a google search, but obviously the iphone it was not.
I think it’s simple enough to see why Nokia thought Windows would be the right choice. It was far more polished than Android at the time. It ran well on cheap hardware. And they would have Microsoft backing them.
> I think it’s simple enough to see why Nokia thought Windows would be the right choice. It was far more polished than Android at the time
Everyone knew at the time Elop had made a terrible choice crafted to sell Nokia to Microsoft. Here's a nice HN comment I saved that was written a few days after the memo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206437
And then the Nokia transition was supposed to take two years! Posting a memo like this and then taking two years to transition while expecting customers to buy inventory on the old platform? That's just a way to kill a company.
As someone who owned a Windows phone around that time, and knew others who did as well, the shared opinion was that it was a pile of crap.
Nokia went for Windows because of the acquisition target, not because of quality of the OS. With that, they prioritized business strategy over product quality, and we all know what happened after.
They brought in a trojan horse with Elop. Any sensible company at the time would have bet on both horses. E.g. Samsung and HTC had both Android and Windows Phone devices. IIRC there was even one Samsung model (I think a Samsung ATIV) that you could install both Android and Windows Phone 8 on.
Any WP7 polish advantage was skin deep at best. It took approximately 3-5 interactions for something to break in 3rd party apps and maybe twice that in first party apps.
They already had Meego which was a true Linux distribution, already more polished than Android and fully Open Source; unfortunately the deal with Microsoft implied the termination of any further development of it in favor of Windows Mobile, and the rest is history.
WP7 was more polished than Android - I went from an HTC Evo to a Lumia - but a lot of that polish was in the same style as early-iOS: fewer features and capabilities, just done well and with better consistency.
I think betting on either (a) MS beating Apple at their own game or (b) there being room in the market for two premium-limited-but-smoother-UX systems was a dicey call.
Nokia's hardware design advantage over that HTC was MUCH larger than WP7's UI advantage over Android, anyway. I would've stuck with Android but moved to Nokia in a heartbeat if that sleek blue slab of plastic phone ran Android.
The cheapness of the hardware is an interesting point.
I worked with an ex Nokia hardware engineer around that time and he said lots of them had left / been laid off (can't remember which) since Windows Phone could only run on quite specific chipsets (Qualcomm, I think), which basically made their jobs less useful.
But if cost was a factor then maybe that was part of the point, rather than a side effect of the decision.
As a software engineer I'd have to disagree. In 2011 Windows on handheld devices was a consistently low quality product that had at least a decade of Microsoft failing at it behind it. Believing that Microsoft would suddenly be capable of producing a quality product after more than a decade of not being able to was a highly irrational view. And this isn't something you'd have to particularly clever to see back then.
Let's not forget just how bad Microsoft products for handhelds were in the 2000s. (In fact, if you have any devices from back then, dig them out and try them. They are a lot worse than everyone seems to remember. And Microsoft released this stuff with a straight face).
Android might have been behind in 2011, but it had more momentum and it didn't have bone cancer - it had sound bones. It was pretty obvious that Android was going to be the better bet when you have 1-2 years of lead time. As Nokia would have had anyway to get something put together.
It is really hard to see how rational people would make such poor choices - unless motivated to do so.
I worked in Nokia at the time this happened and saw from the inside how the company was ran into the ground by internal incompetence, years of mismanagement, arrogance, and ineptness.
Stephen Elop gets the blame for this often but he was merely the messenger boy. Put there by a board that allowed all this to happen long before he was installed to quickly execute what had been decided by that board. And that board was lead by its former CEO Jorma Ollila. Who made Nokia big in the nineties and was instrumental in its demise and involved with all the key blunders in the ten years prior to selling the remains of the phone division to Microsoft.
Nokia thought they were being smart by jumping ship to Microsoft's Windows Phone. But the reality was that was the merely the latest in a series of very misguided moves that started in the late nineties when they failed to see the potential of Linux and bet on Symbian instead. Nokia's leadership had an enormous blindspot when it came to software. It's technical leadership consisted of people with radio and electrical engineering backgrounds. They were simply incapable of seeing what was happening very clearly in the industry in the late nineties. Linux was happening in a very big and obvious way. And it was inevitably going to run on phones. That was clear in 1999 and a reality before the first Symbian phones even shipped.
By the time Google bought Android, backing Symbian had very obviously been a bad move. By that time there were so many people trying to get Linux going on phones that it was just a matter of time before someone succeeded. Google wanted in on the action. Linux/Android was their quick way in.
Nokia was struggling to get Symbian to market while all that was happening. It was crap. The first versions crashed all the time and were really sluggish and klunky. Incidentally, Nokia actually killed a touch screen platform for Symbian that they never launced. In 2005 as the rumors about the iphone started circulating. Nokia was instead obsessing over flip phones and saw Motorola's razr as its biggest threat. So, it killed the touch screen platform mistakingly thinking that it was not needed.
All this was so obvious that in fact a department in Nokia took it upon themselves to build a Linux based platform. Maemo. The first product launched in late 2005. It was based on Debian Linux and featuring a UI built using GTK and a web browser that was based on Mozilla. A full six years before the first Ipad launched, Nokia had an linux based tablet with a touch screen. Exactly the right kind of thing to be bringing to market around then. Except the Nokia management was completely blind to this and kept on favoring Symbian.
Years later when Google finally unveiled Android after Apple launched the iphone. Google had been relying on a lot of the R&D that went into Maemo. As they lacked a phone until they launched the first Nexus, they even used the N800 as a development platform for Android. There was even a port of Android that you could boot on an N800. I know because I had one and tried it.
Google bought and eventually launched Android between 2005 and 2009. But it was Nokia that was doing a lot of the heavy lifting on kernel development. By 2008 Nokia had a very coherent platform strategy for launching a Linux based range of phones. By 2010 that strategy included a UI platform (QT), Meego, and a then still secret entirely new platform based on Linux aimed at feature phones that got unceremoniously cancelled in 2012 without a product ever having been launched.
Nokia's failure was favoring Symbian throughout this chaotic period until it was crystal clear that the market was never going to favor Symbian and that all attempts at open sourcing it and fixing it were simply not succeeding. By then Google was succeeding with Android and Apple was growing market share with the iphone without Nokia ever having gotten serious at even trying to compete with the platform it had all along.
The thing is, it took Google many years to turn Android into a decent platform after they launched it. The first versions had all sorts of issues with poor UX, poor performance, stability, security, etc. Manufacturers used it mainly because Symbian and Windows CE were worse and there wasn't much else in the market that they could use. And they were hopeless at doing software themselves. And while the iphone was popular, the first versions were pretty limited in features.
So, Nokia had a chance for several years to launch a platform based on the same Linux kernel that Android was using that they were using in Meego. They had all the pieces to pull that off; including a large base of existing users that still loved their Nokias. But they blew their chances because internally Symbian was the darling and people backing that spend years frustrating and delaying Meego.
Phones that were intended to launch with Meego in fact launched with Symbian. They bought Trolltech (QT) to fix the UI for Meego but that turned into a project to fix Symbian instead. The original Maemo devices were using GTK. That move delayed a Meego launch by three years or so as the UI platform they had was scrapped in favor of QT. The only Linux phone with QT that ever launched was the N9. And only after they decided to kill the platform and fire the team. The N900 before that (2009) was still using GTK. It was fine. I had one. Pretty awesome device at the time. Way nicer than anything Google was shipping. But it was very obviously a developer phone and never aimed at consumers ,and a bit klunky, and limited from a hardware point of view. Almost as if they wanted it to fail.
The N9 was launched after Stephen Elop had been appointed around the time of this silly memo. The decision to can it was of course taken before he joined. One of his first moves was killing that at the same time as he was killing Symbian. Basically, he killed Symbian, Meego, and Meltemi (the linux based feature phone platform) to make room for windows phone. In a bizarre move of defiance, Nokia actually managed to launch an Android phone just before MS acquired the phone unit and promptly killed that.
For me as a young outside software developer I saw the N900 and it was my dream phone. I couldn't afford a smartphone but I was ready to buy the N1000 when it came out. And then, it just didn't.
In the IT school I was at Nokia was a regular topic of conversation. All of us completely frustrated that they were apparently unwilling to invest in a Linux based phone and everybody eventually getting an Android or IPhone.
They really had a chance, they were at the right time with the close to the right product and just failed.
He wasn’t wrong, but he didn’t seem to understand what the impact this memo would have on the world outside of Nokia. Nokia relies on orders for phones from network operators and this memo pulled the rug from under those orders.
The Maemo/Megoo devices did a ton of stuff better then android. The multitasking was amazing in comparison. Some of basic apps were better.
And there is a pretty clear path to making an android comparability layer.
Also, even if you want to switch to Android (or Windows) just 'burn it all down' is a bad strategy. That was a profitable business and still had huge market share. Just pissing all over it wasn't a good plan.
The N9 was a better phone than anything they released subsequently. The TI OMAP being eol and the lack of 4g were for sure problems but Elops cure was worse than the disease.
I'm surprised how positive HN was about this. I don't remember reading any positive coverage at the time. I personally thought the guy was an idiot. He wound up performing worse than my expectations.
Looks like that discussion was before Windows Phone was announced as the replacement. E.g. " The idea of a Nokia device running Android is pretty appealing. They've always had good hardware, but Symbian has become a develpment dead-end, and Meego isn't yet here. "
Symbian definitely wasn't the way forward. MeeGo wasn't looking like it was gonna be an iOS or Android killer.
Elop was right about needing to change horses. Terribly wrong about which one to pick, in retrospect. One could argue that MS fucked that up as much as Nokia, though - this was before MS continually screwed up their WP strategy for several subsequent years, like with the WP8 hard reset. Even best case, though, it was a high-risk/high-reward gamble to try to be "the" WP7 phone instead of one of many Android contenders. Would've been interesting to see them take on Samsung instead of just HTC and zombie Motorola, though.
> MeeGo wasn't looking like it was gonna be an iOS or Android killer.
I had an n900 in 2009. I think they theoretically had a winner there.
But they never prioritized it above Symbian.
Then between the n900 and the n9, they totally rewrote the UI on a new toolkit, wasting resources and making it clear that if you write an app for it they may completely discard 95% of the app platform from release to release.
If they had iterated on Maemo 5 in that time and put all hands on deck behind it they could have used those ~3 years more productively and been more competitive. Maemo 5 was actually pretty close to what they needed.
Blackberry had a similar situation. Like meego, in bb10 they had a qt based platform in the early 2010s. But it was too late. The biggest blunder is not doing it sooner, before Android solidified.
It was somewhat of a 3-body problem: carriers, oems, and developers. Carriers wanted branding and bundling. OEMs wanted to market a distinction design. Developers wanted a platform. Three cooks with competing tastes.
For example: the Moto-Q ran Windows, shoe-horned in some AT&T UX junk, and a huge nubin that stuck out in the middle. It pioneered the ever present "pocket dial." Was thinking of developing for it, but after a few dozen pocket dials, I wanted to go full Frisbee mode.
Apple cut through the 3-body problem. They controlled the UX. Such as integrated voice-mail. The carrier didn't mess with the UX. After a few months, Apple provided a decent development environment -- maybe as a response to all the jailbreak apps that we were making.
Around that time I was in a focus group. What struck me was a horror story from a Symbian developer. Their toolchain broke after an incremental update. Lost a week dealing with it. That kind-of put me off of Symbian.
Maybe the real choice for Nokia was: either the burning platform or the sharks.
I worked an application that was distributed as part of the OS for pretty much every nokia symbian phone. We hired quite a few folks who had worked directly for Symbian. The stories were crazy.
There were major components people refused to even touch (like messaging) because the code was basically unmaintainable. An aggressive refactor of the entire OS was needed but they never really got comfortable with that. Symbian was originally essentially an operating system targeted at a calculator that outgrew itself several times over.
The first modern slab phone I ever saw wasn’t an iPhone… it was a Nokia prototype in like 2005. If they had a real operating system in place maybe Nokia is the world’s most valuable company today.
The slab-phone was probably a response on the SonyEricsson P series that was really good, had a p900 myself (p800 2002,p900 2003,p910 2004). It's such a shame that SonyEricsson regressed in their design mojo because their 2006 followups of the series (p990, m600, w950) _decreased_ screen size and added front buttons (I started looking at other replacements until I got myself an iPhone 3G when they finally came out here).
Isn't the carrier concern US-only though? In many other countries carriers know nothing about phones. Carriers sell cell service, electronics stores sell unlocked phones.
Yes, the under appreciated secret sauce Apple had was a brand with enough prestige that they could dictate terms to Cingular Wireless. Cingular couldn't put bloatware on it, they couldn't load it with crappy video "services" that played 15 second clips of football games for $19.95 per month. They couldn't charge a fee for a map app. They couldn't even paste their logo on it. Etc., etc.
I liked my Nokia phones - they were ergonomic but not innovative; they were great "just a phone"-type phones. My wife even purchased a re-make of one of their classic phones recently.
But I loved my BlackBerries - they were the perfect tool for email/chat/calling and nothing else, the perfect complement to a laptop, whereas iPads partially overlap with both mobile phones AND laptops in terms of functionality, which is why at airports you now see so many people carrying three devices instead of one.
So while I have fond memories of Nokia, I don't miss their devices, but I'd give my metaphorical leg for getting my BB back.
Agreed on BB. I was interested when they moved to Android, and then they died. There still isn't a good, high-end Android with a keyboard from a company I know I can trust.
I was interested that Blackberry didn't use Android - their QNX based OS had a lot of potential. At the time, my Android phone would get hot and drain the battery whenever a batch process decided to reindex my media.
I had a Nokia N9 as my daily driver for years (2011-2015 if I recall right) and still have it.
That phone was absolutely top tier at the time. It lacked some apps but overall it was an amazing phone. Everyone always wanted to know what it was I was using.
It really was a nice device. Great size, took excellent photos for the time, and that AMOLED screen with the always-on clock and black blacks. I'd probably have one today if it were LTE capable.
Qt/Sailfish worked well enough too but it definitely had its defects. My biggest complaint was they didn't ship complete source prepared for convenient reproduction of the firmware and out-of-box encouraged flashing of self-made builds. Then I would have been fixing the bugs I tripped over.
They didn't lose when the iPhones and Androids came out. They lost when at their peak because they became complacent. It just took a few years to manifest itself. If the leadership had been worth their salaries they would have known with every fiber of their being that Symbian was already dead. Both due to where hardware was going and because of the rather obvious answer to "how do the next 5 billion people get online".
Nokia was "old people in suits". I don't think the company was ever going to be capable of transformation.
You seem to misremember a few things. MSFT paid $7.2bn. After 3 years Microsoft wrote it off as a loss.
That amount of money is roughly what the top two smart phone manufacturers make in one week of sales. The industry represents a multi trillion dollar combined market cap due to smart phone sales. Then there is all the new businesses it enabled, creating wealth for developers.
Oh yes, Nokia lost. There really isn't any spin one can put on that.
Are you talking about individuals or the organization? I’m sure some employees in management “won” financially, there are very few failed companies where that isn’t the case.
Great hw engineers let down by less than stellar software decisions.
Nokia owned a significant slice of late stage pre internet telephony infrastructure level equipment, bridged over to the emerging mobile world and .. kinda missed the boat when Apple happend in with iPhone and then Android's emergence killed them.
A lot of people loved their handsets. Just not enough in any single market to make up for some bad decisions.
A similar fate: I wonder if the myriad of vendors who glued to the Japanese market regretted it, as that model shrank as internet rose?
The network / infrastructure side of Nokia still exists. When the handsets division was split or sold off, the network division continued as Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN), and was rebranded to Nokia Networks I think after the merger with Alcatel-Lucent.
So for the big mobile wireless telco's, the big players are basically Nokia, Erricson, and Huawei these days. My experience with Nokia's equipment did reflect the burning platform memo, but all the big players had lots to be desired in my experience with them.
Note: I've been out of the industry for several years, so I'm not totally up to date on the vendors.
> the network division continued as Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN), and was rebranded to Nokia Networks
It wasn't just a rebranding. Nokia wisely bought Siemens out from the Networks joint venture already in 2013, before selling the phones to Microsoft. Then in 2015, they acquired Alcatel-Lucent (including Bell Labs) to the mix. This way, they stayed in Fortune Global 500 even without the phone business.
And nowadays there are new Nokia branded feature phones as well as Android phones and tablets: https://www.nokia.com/phones/
> Great hw engineers let down by less than stellar software decisions.
I remember reading a deep dive into how exactly Nokia run it's cellular department, in it's corporate culture... and things there were not great. Everything were behind the red tape and countless meetings, every feature had someone who was appointed as an 'owner' of that feature and if you need to change something what would somehow involve that feature you needed an approval from that owner. And if the guy didn't want to give the approval, because he was afraid to take the responsibility than there was nothing you could with it. Same in the Symbian dept.
People like to shit on Elop, but with or without him the mighty Finnish giant would die anyway. With Elop and MS deal they, at least, tried to do something and saved jobs for a couple of years (though not all). Without MS deal all those people would been on the street in 2013 at best.
That included me. I had fond memories of an near indestructible 3310 and I genuinely wish I did not miss the boat on N900 ( I just landed in US and phone was the least of my concerns then ).
<<Just not enough in any single market to make up for some bad decisions.
Sadly, clearly there are decisions that can sink even a dominant power in the market. He is not HP's Fiorina. He did have some wins in previous positions, which makes a person like me question whether the failures at Nokia was little more than a sabotage. Obviously, we will likely never really know.
Internally they didn't miss the boat. They literally were on the boat and were crushing it. But they failed to make actual products and continued selling crappy Synbian based phones.
> Maemo Leste continues the legacy of Maemo ... based on Devuan Beowulf (Debian Buster) and all the supported devices ship with recent mainline Linux kernels. We are currently in the development phase and we are actively searching for developers. For some devices, we have development images available - such as the Nokia N900, Motorola Droid 4, and the PinePhone. There is also a 64bit virtual machine you can use to try out Maemo Leste.
I wish I could speak more to the experience directly. I eventually got a n900 used but after the fall, & I was a college kid with no real need for it.
What was thrilling & exciting & totally different was that the n900 was a computer. A regular computer. Trying to learn how to make GNOME an ok experience, on very low res mobile. But we knew essentially what it was; it obeyed & played within the regularinux desktop environment world. it was a linux desktop environment, and that gave it open potential. Everything is/was orchestrateable/controllable by dbus, the user's control plane. All the apps exposed themselves over IPC. It played in the connected desktop world as best of breed.
The failure of this situation to talk about how intensely stupid it was to give up on the platform is farcically bad. What was here was incredible. It needed improvement & work but the architecture was immensely omni-potential, more capable clearly & growing well known existing tech well, rather than alternate reality symbian or then counter respondes danger or android. weird new alternates to actual linux desktop. Selling out to MS was one of the most shortsighted sorry pathetic givings ups, in a time of vast growth with fantastically little belief in yourself & your people doing good. There was no technical reason to refocus. (But bad numbers, as most players saw). They should have kept going. This was a decision made by people who had faint sense, gailed to appreciate hope, missed clarity on what creating value was like, what value was. This was a pathetic ignorant stupid business decision, to end Maemo. Things rocked, that was a great could do possibility, the OLE COM competitor kf DBus was winning, the market just didnt see yet.
Nokia had a chance, but their developer experience was terrible. They should have invested in it. And also open source. They could have open sourced their platform and compete with Android.
What did they do instead? They made an extremely stupid bet on Microsoft, which by that time was even further behind in mobile world than Nokia itself.
Symbian was open sourced at one point and before that, available for others to make phones with, SonyEricsson had a couple, I think there were one or two others as well. The Nokia linux phones were open sourceish as well, in partnership with Intel.
If your platform is trash just opening it up doesn't matter.
And their linux based phones were pretty open but they had no power in the organization and having an open source platform with no phones is pointless.
> We too, are standing on a “burning platform,” and we must decide how we are going to change our behaviour.
Aaaand that's where I would have decided to get a new job. I've survived two different "roll up your sleeves, plebs, the management set our house on fire" scenarios. Never again.
People pick on nokia for making the wrong choice, but i dont think they were wrong. Apps are important and they are a bit of a winner takes all market (or at least half). Nokia was screwed and i think the memo correctly identifies that.
Unfortunately identifying the problem is only half the battle. Figuring out what to do next is the other half, and that is where nokia failed.
As everybody at the time was pointing out. If you are unwilling to make your own platform (Maemo/MeGoo) work, then just make Andoird phones. It wasn't really tha difficult and many people had been screaming about this since 2009.
But instead they just continued with the Symbian feature phones that nobody wanted.
As a former Nokia/HERE employee, I agree. A really interesting read!
It is a book originally written in Finnish by two journalists who start out with the question of whether Elop was placed at Nokia with the goal of "handing over" the phone business to MS. Their final answer is "no": it is unlikely that this was the case, according to their research. Most decisions that were taken were rational and explainable, many of them risky but adequate given the desperate situation ...
I was not at the company at the time of the memo, having joined in 2012. I do remember the morning when every employee at Nokia got an SMS on their phone saying that the phone business was sold to Microsoft. I was part of the maps division that was later sold to a consortium of German, an event that was way less spectacular ...
>At the lower-end price range, Chinese OEMs are cranking out a device much faster than, as one Nokia employee said only partially in jest, “the time that it takes us to polish a PowerPoint presentation.” They are fast, they are cheap, and they are challenging us.
Never forget that no matter how brilliant you think your company is, there are five of those companies in China, four of which are brand new and working in a playground of mass production at scales you can't comprehend. If the world ever shifts power and relevance to China the whole West will collectively have a burning platform situation. China's not just "cheap", and when people start trusting them for the occasional higher-quality product, and there's a market for it, they'll come for all of us.
Make no mistake, China's industrial prowess will be the major game-changing force in the 2020's.
Nokia was slow. That's part of what got them when Apple launched the iPhone.
Chinese manufacturers are already doing top quality products. Huawei phone are/we're on par with the iPhone and were selling like hot cakes until the company was stopped "by any means necessary".
Nokia suffered from lack of direction from the top... They had both symbian and maemo, both officially blessed, but incompatible. Symbian was the past and maemo had promise, so what did management do... a hail mary bet on microsoft? It came out of nowhere and seemed desperate, I believe the market's reaction reflected this sadly.
I remember thinking at the time that is was a great metaphor, and then reading on HN that its straight from some business school text on how to motivate change.
A great metaphor, unless it’s used inappropriately, which is like 99% of the time. And Kotter is the excuse for a ton of change-by-imposition too. As someone interested in change, I kinda wish that the 1990’s hadn’t happened. There is a lot that’s good and exciting in the organisation development space, but that metaphor and Kotter’s model are not representative of it.
I just bought a new Nokia phone. Part from nostalgia since the last one I owned was over 10 years ago, part because it seemed to be good value for its price (300€).
Now, having used it for a while, I wouldn't say I'm impressed - design-wise Apple products for example are miles ahead. Yet I don't really have anything to complain about - it does what a modern phone should do. It's pretty big though so it's harder to put into your pocket but I guess that's just how phones are nowadays.
I'll be more interested to see though how long the phone will last, my previous OnePlus endured 5 years before the electronics started to show their age. I hope Nokia still has its built-quality and this one will be rocking way past that with couple of drops to concrete in-between.
> design-wise Apple products for example are miles ahead
Well yes, of course. The cheapest iPhone, the SE, which is of an old design and with an old chip, costs 500€+. You can't expect 50%+ price difference to result in no difference in what you get.
Premium Android phones closer to iPhone pricing are usually better design-wise.
Well by design I meant in general its shape and feel. Like the logo at the bottom of the screen, the way it's positioned little asymmetrically between the lighted and darkened area is to me a little jarring. Or why it's there in the first place. And the bevel between screen and the frame, I think it could have been done better.
So it's not really "of course, that's how it's supposed to be". I did not like the feel of some of the premium Android phones either, so I think it's just in general the vibe of the phone that I don't find that exciting.
It's a fine phone but it feels the people who made the phone were not overly passionate about making it. Which makes sense but I had hoped more distinct personality out of it. Not just another generic mid-range Android phone.
Boy, did Nokia elope after this with M$ft phone which was supposed to right Nokia's collective "ship". Elop joined the hallowed hall of fame of abysmal CEO's who ran their firms into the ground. Remember Lumia, Windows Phone 7,8 & 10 blehh.
I had a Windows 8 phone from Nokia around 2015 or so and other than the lack of apps it was a phone like pretty much any other at the time or even these days. By that I mean I don't remember anything really bad about it, especially because I mostly use the web anyway.
I have no idea why things succeed or fail and so I don't know for this either, but my guess is it was new, but didn't have anything that provoked an interest with mainstream users. And Microsoft does not have many faithful users.
I wonder if they threw in the towel too soon. I too had a Nokia Windows phone and I loved it. They were popular in South Africa as Nokia was a recognised brand. Bandwidth is still expensive here so most people just need WhatsApp and Facebook and they are fine. Perhaps the developed market needed more apps.
It didn't matter how good or bad it was, Windows was a toxic brand on mobile. A very large segment of potential customers was rejecting it off hand based on their desktop Windows experience. They may have been stuck with it on the desktop but on mobile even if they weren't sure what they wanted they definitely knew that it wasn't THAT.
I use to work for HTC. I was there when iPaq launched and saw the birth of first PocketPC phone, a black and white screen phone for Sagem/Mitsubishi. I would like to share my opinion on this issue of tech disruption. From my point of view, Nokia did not have enough resource and time to meet the challenge which was brought about by Apple and Google/Android. All the tech companies need at least one dominating advantage in order to survive. This dominating advantage needs to crush all challenger in that specific area. Apple has operating system. Samsung has display. Chinese phone makers have CCP. Nokia had nothing that matter. They had two choices, create one or buy one. They were not able to do either so they fade away.
High hardware quality is always important but it is not enough to build a moat to stop the competition. I remember a Siemens quality manager told me the high hardware quality of Siemens's phone when HTC was building a phone for Siemens. High hardware quality did not save Siemens's phone business either.
I'm pretty sure the metaphorical platform had already fully melted down by 2011, they just hadn't realized it yet. Nokia was not dead on January 9th, 2007 but maybe by 2008 when the App Store launched or perhaps in 2010 when FaceTime launched with the iPhone 4. At that time Nokia made very solid utility devices that admirably did their jobs. What they failed to ever make and what I suspect they failed to realize that Apple was making was a desire object - something that was more than the sum of its parts. The N9000 and the N9 were technically very good (on paper even better than the iPhone) but they lacked the integrated and holistic design decisions that made the iPhone special.
> Apple was making was a desire object - something that was more than the sum of its parts.
It's harder to do now with iPhone's market size, but I think we're looking at it with rosy glasses.
Where Apple succeeded is having a viable touch interface. That's where RIM, Nokia, Fujitsu, Compaq and countless other device makers failed at. Including Nokia.
Otherwise the iPhone was buggy and crashing all the time, battery life was trash compared to other phones or the iPod, I don't know anyone actually relying on it to make "serious" calls (we kept our feature phones) it would straight ignore some of the incomming calls and we just were willing to go through all of that to get a usable touch UI.
> I don't know anyone actually relying on it to make "serious" calls (we kept our feature phones) it would straight ignore some of the incomming calls
I know there was a lot of noise about dropped calls and all that in the US, but this was not a thing here in Europe. I would assume that the issue was at least as much with AT&T than with the iPhone.
Here there were controversies about a lot of things (for example, it became caught up in the electro-sensitivity pseudoscience argument, there was also some noise about the glass front being brittle), but not reception. At least not before the iPhone 4.
I believe Microsoft literally ran an advertisement suggesting that people were spending too much time on their phones. This was an ad for their own smartphones.
That's an interesting look into their corporate attitude at the time.
You could say that their Office app monopoly sabotaged their web browser (and the web in general) and their desktop monopoly sabotaged their phones (and phones in general) but both the web and smartphones proved stronger in the end.
Looking at Nokia stock over the past 3 decades, you’d be hard pressed to pinpoint where the burning memo happened or say if it killed the company (I’d say it didn’t, the value is pretty flat from before the memo until now. It did kill the handset division).
With all this talk of tech and business, am I the only one who's wondering about safety measures on oil rigs? Can you climb up the legs to stay away from sharks? Do they have life rafts and emergency supplies on the bottom of the legs so you can wait for rescue?
It seems like every tech company eventually reaches a similar fate of fading into irrelevance as more innovative competitors emerge (e.g. DEC, BlackBerry, Yahoo). Will today's tech giants suffer the same fate? If so, how soon?
Switching to Microsoft seemed like the best decision at that time. Those criticizing are underestimating the software engineering effort required to build a modern OS and the app ecosystem.
But what about Symbian and Ovi? I've had a bunch of Symbian devices with the Ovi store. They were simply not in the same league; the apps were basic because the development tools were just not good enough; and targeted basic low-end experiences. Windows Phone was the most modern OS out there (including the dev tooling); and had the best shot at competing with the Androids. I also bought the N800 (which ran Maemo) from Nokia in 2007. It was ok - but it never looked like a phone platform.
Why was Windows a better choice than Android? You mentioned that Windows had “the best shot of competing with Android”, but why was that desirable? The adage, if you can’t beat them, join them comes to mind.
Oddly, Windows Phone 8 had the best user experience of any phone I've ever used, by far.
I'd still be on it if it existed and wasn't laden with Windows 10 style telemetry. I don't care about having a wide selection of apps. I care about having a low-distraction, well organized UI that's optimized for specific tasks.
For instance, opening an entry in the address book produced a cross-social-network feed of everything they sent you recently (including call logs, email, SMS, twitter, etc...).
That was fantastic, but prepared to have your mind blown: Typing an address into the navigation app and hitting enter (or tapping on a destination) immediately started navigating.
8.1 was strictly a UI regression. I heard 8.5 was even worse.
Maybe they concluded (rightly) that there are no margins in Android devices. Samsung is a rare exception, but by then the signs were clear that manufacturing (including the R&D around it) was shifting to East Asia.
Did you forget about Meego? They shipped the N9 with it. 12 years of iteration on that would have yielded an experience comparable to iOS or Android for sure.
I ported it to a couple of Android devices and used it as a daily driver for a year or so.
It is technically a successor, but it just wasn't there. App story was worse than N9 (without considering alien dalvik/anbox/waydroid).
Some of the technical decisions they've made meant more headaches for developers (Old gcc version. Old Qt version. Repacking Fedora arm packages just to run on sfos wasn't fun). The browser was based on a very old and buggy Firefox version.
At the end of the day, it wasn't even fully open source.. so you always had to play catch up with their updates just to keep your mods working.
Despite all that, the community was vibrant and very talented.
Oddly enough, it was also smoother to use and feels more well designed than Android on the same device. Even little things like double tap to wake, being easier for one hand usage
> Has any Nokia B9 user also tried Sailfish OS? Is it a proper successor to the Harmattan Meego distro the N9 had?
Yes I have it installed on a Sony Xperia. It's not my main phone (I have a work phone that I mainly use), but I would say it works very similar to the N9 so yes a proper successor. The major downside is a relatively small selection of native apps and that the platform did not progress as much as it could have. I would recommend that anyone who has a phone that can run it should try it out.
I had the Jolla phone back in the day. It was kind of similar to N9, but nowhere the almost magical experience N9 PR1.3 was. The lack of apps was starting to show, the on screen keyboard wasn't that good, the browser was just bad (to be honest, N9 wasn't keeping up with the standards either) and the hardware didn't do anything to improve the experience.
Were they? I had a Lumia with WP7 and it had nearly zero apps, zero multitasking (accidentally click on the Bing button and your app state is lost) and near zero things to do. I remember a very visible metaphor for the whole device was the calendar's month view: it literally showed "Lorem ipsum" for the days you had some events. Supposedly due to performance concerns, and this lasted to WP8 as well.
The only cool thing was the grid but that only goes skin deep. Otherwise I hated the phone. Maybe WP8+ devices were better but WP7 was a piece of crap. I didn't want to try WP8 and got myself a Jolla instead.
The market's only thought about the OS is what features it supports. And lots of them are provided by 3rd party apps. Lots of people switch from Android to iPhone and back. People mostly just want to keep using their TikTok, Instagram, WhatsApp, ...
It's the app developers (and their companies) who wouldn't be happy with a third option, because the existing two cause enough problems, just think about how many frameworks for cross-platform app development exist, they were created for a reason..., and even with them you still have to do OS-specific stuff to tackle different app store policies, different privacy features, updated APIs breaking your app on new OS versions... or you can have two entirely separate teams working on two separate codebases and try to keep the feature parity...
No, they made a smartphone with UI/software first approach and thereby _matured_ it.
The 2002 SonyEricsson p800 (and the p900, p910 followups) kinda sniffed on the form-factor (it was basically the same if you disconnected the numpad) and software had all the features incl a "proper" browser (but not nearly the same polish).
Sadly it seems it was an isolated "enterprise" group that seems to have been hamstrung later (the followup phones made the form factor worse and the UI improvement was marginal compared to the leap the iPhone took).
When compared to Android devices, Windows devices have more computing power, more memory, and a more powerful CPU. This is useful if you have a fat client with a lot of data for things like real-time visualizations and you want your devices to keep up with your users as they complete their tasks. However, all of this extra power means that the battery drains faster and the devices run hotter. When using a unit that is mounted or placed in a docking station with a constant power supply, this is not an issue.
I covered quite a few Nokia reviews back in the day and Nokia was by far the most arrogant company to deal with.
Every company has it's rules and regulations regarding review devices but with Nokia you had to sign up to three forms just to do your work. Partly with ridiculous rules like a missing charger or cable was up to 50 Euros or so.
And they let you very much know where in the pecking order you were regarding your publication and who would get the devices first and last. This was in Germany.
Everybody at Nokia strived for not just being difficult but outright jerks to deal with... so when Apple came around and the disaster started to unfold it was quite the show to watch...
"ah Nokia would like to invite you to this and that shebang..." ah no thanks I think I'm good.
I'm not the guy who carries a grudge but Nokia really made it personal with their whole behavior.
Apple and Samsung aren't perfect but their marketing people are always nice and super helpful.
To dogpile into this, in ~2005 I had one of the worst preseed round experiences raising from Nokia.
They clearly had a mandate to make some moves in mobile, so we were in their target sphere. But the investor was just so slow about moving, lackadaisical in personality, and seemed like he was more paid to come into the office versus actually achieve results (regardless of whether they funded us).
I later read Clayton Christianson and immediately knew what he was talking about with old dinosaurs resting on their laurels.
Good riddance. Market forces don't always act in the interest of society, but when it does like this (v Apple, Android) it's refreshing to see.
The difference is the target audience. When a company reaches a huge size, employees have an incentive to act nice internally, because that's the way to promotion; but they have no incentive to be nice towards external folks. It takes effort from management to ensure people act nicely towards others, and Nokia clearly failed at that.
I met one of their "evangelist" when they were trying to push Qt. He came to a iOS usergroup, so clearly in "enemy territory", and just used a precooked slide deck that compared Qt to Symbian - nobody gave a shit about Symbian there, but that's how they lived, stuck in their bubble. He was quite off-putting and way too commercial-focused for a tech UG; I already knew Qt and left thinking I could have done a better job of selling the tech.
The difference is that no "developers are just tools that should be outsourced whenever cheaper" company has a chance against a true software company (which I count Apple towards even though they're more known for the hardware) deciding to enter the competition.
Nokia was not a software company at all. They treated their OS and UX as an afterthought and put hardware features first.
The same is currently happening in the automotive world with their in-car software. Auto makers aren't thinking of their OSs and UX and the people who develop them as the absolute center point of their industry, when they are.
I'm really having trouble understanding why this is even relevant in 2022. Who cares what the excuses and problems were within Nokia in 2011? Is Nokia's inability to keep up with cell phone technology in 2011 and important part of technical history? Business history? If so, why? I didn't even really get the burning oil rig analogy. It was a pretty melodramatic way of describing being beaten by a competitor, which happens all the time in business history.
Then I looked around the whole website, and there was interesting data. Which ended in 2018. The whole website seems abandoned.
My mother was one of 8 children born to Finnish immigrant parents in America. As an adult she used the local Mormon temple to research her ancestors, connected with them on Facebook, then re-established the family back into the old country. She then visited the matriarch and lived with her for 2 weeks as my distant cousins visited her and made their acquaintance.
Most recently my cousin, whose daughter has an extremely debilitating incurable illness, emigrated back to Finland on his sick daughter’s request. The whole family is attempting to learn Finnish but it is apparently a struggle compared to other languages they learned.
Totally off-topic, but Nokia is a sad story and Finland is a wonderful country with wonderful people.
The choice to go with Microsoft eventually saved Nokia.
Offloading the Mobile Phone unit to Microsoft for nice $7 billion gave them room to breath. Without this, the losses from mobile phones might have dragged the whole company down and somebody could have acquired them for a small price.
Nokia's made institutional mistakes that doomed Nokia phones before hiring Elop. (I was there).
In a sense Nokia was (organizationally) victim of its own success. During the dumb phone and feature phone era Nokia did everything better than others. Everything from the supply chain management, to the phone design and manufacturing worked so well. Why would you sideline leaders and organizations who build all that and wanted to build on that.
When Netflix made the decision to move from mail-based rental to streaming, they did not allow leaders involved in rental business to any meetings involving the company future planning. It's one of the best organizational decisions ever made.
Nokia had multiple choices to stay in game at the beginning. Adopt Android and be like Samsung. Create a new internal Linux based computing platform. Instead, Nokia allowed more senior leaders Symbian/Feature phone teams to interfere and sabotage in multiple big and small ways because their teams still made all the money. As a result, the response to Apple and Android was constant internal reorganization and failed American style compensation structure that caused talent to leave the company, not new stuff.
The teams that did Maemo stuff etc. weren't allowed to ship any features before the Symbian side (which had more political and monetary power) had achieved feature parity...
I never understood this memo. All they had to do was to switch to MeeGo. There was no burning platform.
Hardware was great and software was great, but needed a bit more polish. MeeGo was more advanced than iOS in many ways at the time of this memo, and Maemo had been released way before the iPhone. The 770 was released in late 2005 and it was totally futuristic.
However, Elop had no interest in going this route. When MeeGo was released they dumped the project publicly shortly afterwards and then N9 was sold with no advertising. Despite this, it had a phenomenal demand.
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Aah that's awful.
I remember when Maemo first arrived wanting one, and they never made it mainstream.
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My company back then did some NDA'd research prototype work for Nokia about Linux and touchscreens. My personal conspiracy theory always was that they had tied the company so strongly to Symbian that they just couldn't announce anything else. I hypothesized that they only got some big companies on board Symbian by promising to be "exclusively Symbian for X years" -- and the X ended up being too long, the industry moved on before they could move off of Symbian. Or they were just too afraid of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
They had everything they needed to run Linux on (some of) their phones quite early on. Battery life might not have been great, but they had plenty of Linux-running mobile hardware around, kept in bags outside of the building.
> When Netflix made the decision to move from mail-based rental to streaming, they did not allow leaders involved in rental business to any meetings involving the company future planning.
I wonder, who was the “they” that successfully made such a decision? In most places, there wouldn’t be any senior leadership that isn’t “tainted”, so to speak, by the previous business model. Even a freshly appointed CEO is ineffective if not supported by the bulk of the organization. I wonder how Netflix managed to solve this.
A different example, from Amazon. The top down directive from Jeff was to build every new initiative in total secrecy completely cut off from rest of the organization. To an extent even the building would be cordoned off for other employees. Kindle reader, Eco line of devices, AWS and so on.
I guess the reason was to let them move fast and deliver 0-1 product without being shackled by existing strictures, including the leaders with vested interests. They would hire whole division worth of people within weeks. The downside was a whole bunch of duplicate systems, as everyone would build their own payment processor, order management, UI etc. The results are starting to show as AWS is struggling to piece everything together as coherent higher order offerings. Like there are some two dozen ways to control access, a dozen ways to deliver notifications and so on.
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Reed Hastings was a founder and principal initial investor. He owned 70% of the company, so it was probably down to him.
There was a recent thread where Bezos was quoted as being against bet the company moves. I get where he’s coming from, ideally you’d avoid getting into that position, but faced with a fundamental technological shift like that, sometimes it’s just the right thing to do.
As an aside I’ve been at two companies that were sunk by mismanaged bet the company moves. In both cases they actually had plenty of time to change course, but management was so heavily invested in their pet project that by the time reality has punched them in the face hard enough to wake them up, it was too late.
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I am Brazillian, and here this Nokia strategy was working just fine.
Android back then was crap, iPhone and Blackberry too expensive.
Symbian phones were spreading like wildfire in dry grass, people were switching from dumbphones to Symbian, and the community was having great growth, I saw children looking online for tutorials how to learn coding so they could make Symbian games, there was even a bootleg Counter-Strike for Symbian.
As soon the demo came out, Symbian sales tanked, and people switched instead to random cheap and crap Chinese phones, a popular one was "hiphone".
The effect in my view was devastating, all the hacking community that was starting, suddenly died, what proliferated now was poor quality phones or people doing crazy things (one waiter sold his kidneys to buy an iPhone, literally). Nokia had a very confortable first place in market share in Brazil, in a few months they had became irrelevant.
And now the effects are still felt, in Brazil it is hard to get a decent phone without going into debt, a lot of good phones with interesting features are not sold here, and you can't import them either, because the proliferation of chinese cheap phones that caused all sorts of trouble, the national regulator decided that they will ban from the cell towers any phone that they detect that doesn't have official permission to be sold in the country, this means there is no FairPhone in Brazil, no Shift phone, no Jolla, and so on.
And sadly, not even Nokia themselves are bothering with us anymore, they recently released some fairly interesting phones with WhatsAPP support using FireFox OS (KaiOS), and didn't bother asking permission to sell them here, so they can't be imported.
I agree, you can't just kill it. They clearly had to migrate to Megoo on the high end, but they should have continued both systems for some time to come.
I’d not heard that about Netflix before but it makes a lot of sense. The Apple case is an interesting counterpoint though. They seem to have a pretty solid culture of consensus and collaboration between teams at the top. But then they have an unusual functional organisation structure rather than being organised around product divisions. This means the functional teams have a stake in (basically) all the products, so don’t have as much of an incentive to play favourites. It’s just a different approach to addressing the same issue.
> The Apple case is an interesting counterpoint though
Isn't the story that iphone development was a secret project with competing teams, one of which proposed the touch-screen interface?
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Ah yes I remember it being made a big thing of, like it was revolutionary or something, when I joined - however in the UK we'd understood functional vs product and indeed matrix management since forever. Welcome to the 1970s theme park that is the US I guess!
Sounds like classic Innovator's Dilemma: The money was in the old tech, the market was moving to new tech. They listened to where they money was instead of where it was going.
I had an early Nokia Linux tablet (770, I think?), and I really liked it. I was very sad when Elop turned over the keys to Microsoft. Not surprised, though.
> They listened to where they money was instead of where it was going.
You have to do both. A company pivoting to a new technology too quickly can run out of steam if there’s no adoption and no stable business to keep it afloat. The challenge is to make sure that your legacy team doesn’t stifle your innovation team yet remains profitable as long as it is strategically beneficial.
I am not sure Android could have saved Nokia. Samsung survived in smart phone business because of their display and memory. Chinese smart phone makers was able to compete because of the enormous support from CCP. I was on another oil platform call "HTC" when Nokia platform was "burning". Eventually HTC went down too.
> because of the enormous support from CCP.
People claim this about literally every single thing China was successful at. A government can't just magically make its companies successful in every single industry.
What did the CCP do exactly to make these phones better?
Edit:
Also, HTC didn't exactly have the market dominance of Nokia. So not sure the situations are comparable.
Android itself probably not, but their Maemo efforts were far ahead of Android already.
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> In a sense Nokia was (organizationally) victim of its own success. During the dumb phone and feature phone era Nokia did everything better than others. Everything from the supply chain management, to the phone design and manufacturing worked so well.
They are still the best, Nokia "dumb" phones feel a bit like the f91 Casio watch... but just like those watches, they aren't as popular as they once were.
For people who want a no bullshit, inexpensive, bulletproof, practical phone that lasts and isn't horrible to use, Nokia is still the best. But without competing with smartphones Nokias only other option was to downsize, because as great as they are dumb phones are no longer popular enough - so as you say they were a victim of their own success, they reached a size that was unsustainable in the face of what was to come.
I think Nokia had a third choice: Explore new market segments.
Personally, I want a smartphone along the lines of traditional Nokia phones: Big and tough. I'm glad to have something double the thickness of a normal phone, but:
- The screen shouldn't crack if you squint at it funny (bezel is fine)
- The battery should last a week (double, or more, the thickness of modern smartphones is fine)
- The cell coverage should be spectacular. Again, thickness means more space for antennas.
- It should have good cameras, at least 1080 resolution
- Standard plugs and jacks (USB-C, headphone, SD, dual SIM, etc.)
- Ideally, software updates forever, as stock Android / open source as possible, as little tracking as possible, etc.
- Ideally, stylus (with built-in storage)
- Good security, app sandboxing, no data collection, no cloud sketchiness, reasonable ToS
I think there are a lot of corporate segments as well. Increasing size should also cut down on NREs and allow more modularity, making it easier to make niche devices. I think there are enough markets to have a diversity of devices if NREs can be brought in-line.
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That anecdote about Netflix is not correct according to a friend of mine who was a manager there at the time. Quote below.
“It wasn't until the streaming business was massively ahead of the DVD business before the execs on the DVD side weren't going to the overall strategy meetings. A lot of us had roles on both sides until like 2012ish when there was a clear split internally and a DVD-only executive team was officially set up.”
Perhaps, this a silly question but since you are an insider I would love to know why did Nokia not beat Apple to the smart phone punch?
They did, Nokia launched their first Symbian smartphone in 2001, the Nokia 7650. iPhone was launched in 2007. The Newton of 1997 is not exactly a phone, so I don't think it counts here, but if it does, so does the Nokia Communicator 9000 of 1996. Either way, Nokia was first to market.
Apple had the advantage of a nicer product, and was building products for the US first, rather than US maybe later. Tech news is mostly (but not completely) based in the US, so Nokia smartphones got little coverage as they were often unavailable or non functional in the US. Different GSM frequencies meant different builds, and CDMA was an even more different build. And Nokia had messed up relations with US carriers at a time when phones selling through carriers was the primary method of reaching customers.
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Do you have a reference for that Netflix story?
I worked at Nokia as a SWE in Berlin when that email dropped into my inbox. A few days later, it reached the press. We mostly thought ok, fine. What’s next?
Before that, we’d been building an app for Nokia N97 handset users, an ever-decreasing market - all the engineers on the team had iPhones.
We thought after that email that the next step would be to go on Android. Sure, Nokia would contract a little as it lost its platform, but the platform wasn’t that valuable. It was the great handsets - software wasn’t Nokia’s forte - the leadership structure just didn’t have the vision to bring it together.
When the meeting rolled around, we all went to a big conference centre at the heart of Berlin to watch the announcement of the future vision. Stephen Elop appeared on a gigantic screen, talked a bit before laying down the new vision. It was going to be Android, right? It made perfect sense, the ecosystem was growing and aligned to Nokia. But, no - Stephen announced that the future of Nokia was with Microsoft.
I walked out of the conference when I heard that - standing outside of the conference hall. I knew two things at that moment. One, there wasn’t going to be a future for Nokia - there was no way Microsoft under Ballmer’s leadership could produce an ecosystem. Secondly, I realised that Elop was still Microsoft’s man - He didn’t make the logical choice that fit with Nokia’s culture - It was going to be a takeover by Microsoft.
The project I was working on soon got a new boss. We thought this would align with the new vision of the company. He took us into a room and projected a picture on the wall of a mountaintop surrounded by clouds. He said, “I know you must feel a bit like this, unclear about the direction, clouded about what the future holds. Don’t worry… I also feel like that, too”.
The new boss did eventually make a decisive decision - the N97 app that we were building was to be kept, but it was going to be focused on an even smaller niche of the market, N97 users who were pro skiers. I left soon after.
The takeover by Microsoft did eventually happen, and the rest is history.
If anyone wants to know what it was like at the time, for SWEs working anywhere in Nokia's phone division, this post captures it perfectly.
People sometimes think that we can see Android was the right route only with hindsight. No, every engineer at the time knew that Android was the right way to go and that there was huge opportunity for Nokia there. Sure enough, in the following years we all had to read reviews of Nokia's phone that always concluded: "The handset is fantastic, if only it was running Android". I won't bother going into all the reasons that Windows Phone was a disaster. Elop used some nonsense justification that Android would be a 'failure to differentiate'.
Ultimately though, I take a different view about what the real strategy was. The Nokia board had seen their phones business drop in value from around $120b to around a third of that. They wanted to get out, whilst there was still something left to sell. Choosing Windows Phone effectively saddled Microsoft with the risk too (a joint future), and at that point it was obvious they would have buy the unit entirely in time. Elop wasn't a Trojan horse, the Nokia board saw Microsoft flailing in phones and used their riches to get out.
It's sad because Nokia could have been an Android powerhouse. Particularly getting in early, with really interesting hardware innovation. But someone wanted to cash out. They weren't happy to risk having a phone business worth not 40bn but nothing at all.
So they went from 120b$ business to a 7 billion $ sale. Not exactly amazing.
The last company I worked for used the “burning platform” story a few years later after Elop’s memo. It was true, but it didn’t work.
The rank and file have no idea what to do with this information. The new platform looks great, but it isn’t proven, doesn’t replace the margin targets for sales, and the marketing is split telling the new story while trying not to accelerate the fire. Customers don’t know us for the new platform, so large effort is invested trying to get the smallest of wins at new clients. Invariably, the staff don’t really understand the new platform, quality is lower than the burning platform. Client decides this isn’t something you are good at, sales gets burned and says no thanks. Executives say, oh shit, our finances are a catastrophe, focus on the burning platform. We need quick wins!
Layoffs throw a bunch of people off the platform, repeat until the business is 10% of size, and languish for years with mediocre executives (well paid for skills /competency as no one that has a clue will work for them). People that should resign do the work for 8 people until they burnout. The situation messes with people’s minds and they stick around even though they know they must leave.
The analogy makes sense, but thought out, it is apparent why it can’t work. The whole business leaps from a platform, not to another platform, but to a life raft. It has no stability, can’t support the same people, processes, or way of thinking. Eventually it capsizes and sinks, or is collected by someone with a platform who will extract the last of the value as it goes away silently in the night.
Elop gets lots of shit for his role in this but to be fair, he was just the front man. The real power was with the board and in particular the ex-CEO Jorma Ollila. It was the board who hired Elop and it was the board who weighted and eventually made the call to go with Windows Phone instead of Android.
In a proper public company, crucial strategic decisions like these are not CEO-level but board-level. The CEO is called chief executive officer exactly because he executes the strategy set by the shareholders, whom the board represents. And that's exactly how it went down here. You can read it all from the 2014 book "Operation Elop" by Pekka Nykänen and Merina Salminen, Teos Publishing.
It might even have worked out. Just that Microsoft still doesn't know how to run a proper app store besides the XBox Games one until this day.
They flooded this thing with crappy apps anyone could submit for some weird incentives just to get their weird app store metrics up, making the user experience horrible. I wonder what would have happened, if they ran a properly curated platform, where they didn't allow for keyword spamming. At a time Windows Phone had pretty much all the apps you needed back then and a more then decent camera at a competetive price.
I got a ton of free Nokia phones back in the day through these weird incentive programs. I was told at a meetup by one of the employees that each Microsoft division was to get N number of new apps in their local store each quarter, and they’d have developer programs along the line of “publish 5 Windows Phone apps, get a free Lumia phone.”
There were zero requirements other than publish N number of apps, there was zero form of quality control. I was a freshman in college at the time, could barely code my way out of a leetcode at that point and I’d have five calculator-esque apps ready to go whenever my local Microsoft division dropped a Tweet saying a new program was live since there was only a limited amount of phones.
Felt real good for me and my buddies but ironically we were left with phones that had these junk riddled app stores, amazing hardware devices though.
But yeah, Balmer did great developing the B2B side of things, consumer devices wasn’t it.
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Crappy apps might be a problem, but what was a bigger problem was that every major release of the platform came with a new application framework, and developers would have to pick between using the old framework to keep existing customers and live with suboptimal experience on new devices, use the new one and drop support for old devices, or spend even more effort on supporting both (or really all three). Compare to iOS, where most users update to latest OS within months, or desktop Windows where win32 works for everything, or Android where version gated features don't usually require massive changes to enable.
It would have been nice if they didn't copy Apple so hard, leaving out copy and paste and restricting browsers in the store weren't the best decisions for an upstart platform. Mozilla had been excited to port Firefox early on, but Microsoft told them no, so WP users were stuck with Mobile IE and much later in WM10, the amazingly worse Mobile Edge.
Yeah I remember hearing that announcement about incentives and thought it was obvious that crappy apps would come to dominate the store. Two things would’ve made the App Store better:
- First-party apps using the same SDK as third-party apps. This would’ve forced the third-party sdk to be awesome from the beginning, but it also would’ve delayed the launch of WP7 by at least 4-6 months. It wasn’t until a couple years later that some first-party apps switched to the public sdk and improvements were made, but by then it was too late.
- Google allowing us to build official apps for YouTube and maps. We even offered to build and maintain it, but they simply refused to allow those apps to exist on our platform.
I still had a wonderful time working on the product 2008-2012, but it’s really a shame WP never made it as a viable third platform.
> but it was going to be focused on an even smaller niche of the market, N97 users who were pro skiers.
I can’t stop laughing at this.
Nokia N9 was the best phone I have ever owned.
To these days their gesture navigation implementation is the best. And they had Swype keyboard preinstalled.
Speaking of apps: Here maps, SoundHound, amazing mail client and calendar...
Gosh I miss that phone.
I used mine for about 3 years, I think, and sold it for more than a half of its original price in literally a couple of hours (which means my price was too low).
By the time the software started showing its age: no banking apps, browser failing to display more and more modern sites...
I believe, they should have pushed with Meego. With vendor support their OS could've been a hit.
Symbian was the biggest problem with Nokia phones. The hardware was always amazing.
I owned a Communicator 9290, and have yet to have a phone that performed as well on speaker. Bar none. Noise cancelling and volume both. I had an e90, and although it was less amazing on that front, the build quality, and look at feel just was... Great!
I'd pay iPhone Pro prices for (basically) an e90 running Android with a decent camera. Nobody's made one yet, but I keep hoping. And yes, in a matter of weeks I'll have my Astro Slide from Planet Computers, but I have little doubt the form factor will still fall short of the dream of a truly pocket phone you can type decently well on.
The N9 was not Symbian though. What I read was that there was a serious management culture issue at Nokia. Even before Elop Meego efforts were seriously sabotaged by the Symbian camp (the N9 was significantly delayed for example) .
Mind you that memo and the decisions made were either incredibly stupid or part of a strategy by the shareholders to break apart Nokia. I mean apart from the fact that you tell the public that you don't believe in your product while selling it, they also decided to axe the Meego version N9 successor even though it was essentially ready. Many believe that was done to not risk it being a success, which would have revealed the whole strategy change to be wrong.
> Symbian was the biggest problem with Nokia phones.
I actually miss it, those were simpler times where your phone didn't spam you with ads or notifications or didn't get outdated every 2 years. No constant data collection or surveillance to the scales we deal with now.
More so, I actually miss the feeling of how new everything was, in the sense that is you wanted to play some games you'd sometimes scour WAP sites for the game files (or pay exorbitant fees through magazines).
There was a certain charm to games back then, too, seeing what people could knock together with Java on such a limited platform. Games like Gravity Defied, Galaxy on Fire or Gish, or even Doom RPG.
I'm kind of nostalgic, admittedly, maybe for a time when not everything was so well optimized towards monetization. And before Wirth's law became so present on our devices.
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I wonder if we ever going to see anything other than Android or iOS. A third ecosystem wouldn’t be so bad.
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Linux and Nokia were at one point the Crown Jewels of Finnish tech. One still remains. Would’ve been a match made in heaven but I believe they needed Microsoft’s cash to keep the company running. I remember testing the N900 at their store and was really impressed but I think it was too little too late
N900 was awesome, but it wasn't what the masses wanted. It had a lot of quirks, like UI freezing when someone calls you so you couldn't answer the call and suffering from slowing down over a relatively short period of time while being price competitive with the other high end phones.
N900 was a great beta. We never got a 1.0 though.
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Agreed. I loved my Nokia N9. The software was great! The Nokia N9 alarm clock was the best alarm clock app I've ever used.
Android have copied some elements of this but it's nowhere near as simple!
The hardware was fantastic as well. I dropped mine several times without a case and it never broke.
The TI dac sounded great with my Sony XBA-3 iems I had at the time.
I did hate the USB port cover though. And hated that they didn't have a dedicated camera button like the N8 and n97.
The N9 was a regrettable purchase for me. I even feel that Nokia owes me, all these years later!
Paid a lot for the 64 gig N9. Soon after Nokia abandoned the OS, and I felt ripped off.
I remember the flash refused to stay off. I would disable flash for a photo, but next time I used camera the flash was back on. This was enough to move to a phone that remembered the flash setting.
Years later I tried to start my N9 but it was demanding a password that I didn't know. Some kind of recovery password I never knew I had set up. There was no way I could find to reset the phone even to factory settings. It's basically bricked with no way to restore, so I couldn't even sell it as a working phone.
> Nokia N9 was the best phone I have ever owned.
I'll counter with the Nokia N900.
> I believe, they should have pushed with Meego. With vendor support their OS could've been a hit.
So say we all.
> I'll counter with the Nokia N900.
I've never understood this about N900 fans.
My experience with the N9 was great, and never left me wishing I could go back to something more like a Sharp Zaurus with modern cell connectivity.
What is it that makes the N900 appealing? Is it strictly the physical keyboard? So the N950 would have been the N900 killer? Or was there something else about it?
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> Here maps
HERE was spun off, and is a great platform today. HERE WeGo is available for Android and iOS, plus web.
Nokia transit / HERE transit was my favorite public transit app back when I used windows phone. It had a unique way [1] of presenting transit options that was far more convenient than the simple list that every other app does. Sadly the current HERE WeGo app also does the simple scrolling list, so I see no reason to use it.
[1] https://mspoweruser.com/nokia-here-transit-now-covers-46-uk-...
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Did you try the Jolla phones? They tried to carry the Meego torch in their Sailfish OS (which currently works well with "last year's" Sony phones). Even though it has different UI decisions than the N9 I found it reasonably good over time, and today some of it's decisions (like using swipes for navigation) made their way into other mainstream mobile OSes.
I bought the Xperia X and paid for Jolla with android support.
It's a horrible buggy mess. Nothing like the smooth experience of the meego/Maemo n9
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Aw man the N9, good times. I still rock my glossy white N9 from time to time. Just realized that thing had 64GB of storage in 2011.
That thing had also fully functional car navigation with all maps for free, and it had busybox shell... gosh how miserable are we now with smartphone options...
Lol, I had an N900 and it was clunky at best. It was ok as a tech preview, but it wasnt a fantastic product by any means.
The N900 did NOT run Meego. I agree with OP 100% that the N9 was an amazing phone. Honestly it was brilliant. Super smooth and well thought out. Polished too. With an android emulation layer on top it could have been a success. Alas Nokia got Elop’d.
How would Meego have succeeded where Windows Phone, which had Microsoft’s backing, failed?
Applications. You can't take an existing Windows app and run it on Windows Phone, because the APIs are not there. You can take an existing Linux app and run it on Meego, because it's just a regular ARM Linux with a custom UI.
Microsoft backing is a help? Seems to me having the backing of the Linux community would have been way better.
Making UI for mostly existing apps, porting lots of existing apps over. Lots of free continues investments. Like you get other companies on board who use the same basic distro and apps and help with bug fixes and so on.
You can use the same distro on phones, tables and even sell laptops with that software on it.
And you can do all of that for no cost to anybody. Every single Nokia with Windows gives money away to Microsoft.
I'm not saying this is a great letter, but he wasn't wrong. I owned both Symbian and Maemo devices, and the experience (both to use and develop) really was this bad. That's not to say everything about it was bad, or that there was nothing to like (as HN comments have often pointed out, there was), but it didn't hold a candle to iOS, or even Android. (And Android in those days was pretty hideous.)
Now what Nokia did in response... that may not have been right either. But they had to do something.
The letter talks about a man standing on a burning platform choosing to jump into the icy waters instead.
In this metaphor, Nokias actions were neither staying on the platform not jumping into the water but shooting itself in the head instead.
If the internally Nokia OSes were not going anywhere, which looked to be the case from the outside, the obvious solution was to go with Android. Something that already had the user base, had the apps, had the platform, was open source so it allowed for innovation and differentiation, and Nokia could tailor it to work well with their hardware.
Instead, he chose to go with Windows Phone which had absolutely no benefits. And had severe restriction the kind of phones Nokia could create and on the modifications they could make (they could barely even reskin it) and did not allow Nokia to leverage any software or hardware prowess they may have had.
Android was a choice. Not the obvious one. Seriously how many Android manufacturers are really successful? Samsung? Google? Pretty much everyone else is completely interchangeable in the crowd of low cost devices.
LG, HTC, Sony …etc have all but disappeared and they all chose Android. Sony especially had some solid hits back in the day.
Microsoft utterly failed Nokia but I don’t consider the decision at the time to be a terrible one.
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But N9 was not a maemo it was Meego. It was incredibly polished it definitely was on par or better than android and IOS of the time.
While some of the assessments in the memo might be correct (it took way too long to get the N9 out for example), shouting this out to the public is incredibly stupid. I mean he is lamenting the fact they only have one top of the line phone out, but then decides to completely axe the system (and the pending new tip of the line phone) for making them and only sell the Symbian version which he just decried as being for lower end phones. And then wait another year or 2 until they have a Windows phone, a platform that they don't control and where they are completely reliant on MS and which is totally unproven?
Edit: OK reading up again, it seems I misremembered. It was actually the N9 which was the Meego phone released after the memo. It was essentially released that you had to be order specifically through an online system only at Nokia. It still gained wide critical acclaim, but at that point was poised to fail already.
> it took way too long to get the N9 out for example
...which is mostly because of infighting with Symbian team. Nokia N810 was supposed to be a phone already. Nokia N8 was supposed to me a lower end Meego device. Both didn't end up that way because of internal politics.
That his letter pointed out a real problem never seemed controversial. The shocking part was tying themselves to MS without a reasonable backup plan.
They thought they couldn't build hardware good enough to compete with other Android makers, but somehow convinced themselves that the solution to that was to put their less competitive hardware onto a less competitive platform.
> They thought they couldn't build hardware good enough to compete with other Android makers,
But that is so wrong. Hardware was their strength. They could've sticked to what they knew best and over time do what's necessary.
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> That his letter pointed out a real problem never seemed controversial.
Only in retrospect. At the time, the internet was full of people who thought Symbian was Just Fine. And they had sales figures of millions of (mostly 12-key) "smartphones[0]" to prove it. And then this shifted to "Lost Causeism" when whatever MooMooMo platform never got off the ground.
[0] Okay, I had one of these and you could check your email or do a google search, but obviously the iphone it was not.
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I think it’s simple enough to see why Nokia thought Windows would be the right choice. It was far more polished than Android at the time. It ran well on cheap hardware. And they would have Microsoft backing them.
Elop did, Nokia engineering not so much.
Our culture was pretty much anti-MS before he came on board.
On the server side we were using HP-UX, Perl, C++, in 2005 the transition for Red-Hat Linux and Java started.
On the devices, Symbian and the Maemo (Linux based).
Symbian was finally getting usable with PIPS, Qt and Eclipse based Carbide.
I happened to be in Espoo the week after this memo was published, I haven't found anyone that agreed with it.
Everyone thought the community would never jump of joy with Microsoft technologies, and right they were.
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> I think it’s simple enough to see why Nokia thought Windows would be the right choice. It was far more polished than Android at the time
Everyone knew at the time Elop had made a terrible choice crafted to sell Nokia to Microsoft. Here's a nice HN comment I saved that was written a few days after the memo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206437
And then the Nokia transition was supposed to take two years! Posting a memo like this and then taking two years to transition while expecting customers to buy inventory on the old platform? That's just a way to kill a company.
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As someone who owned a Windows phone around that time, and knew others who did as well, the shared opinion was that it was a pile of crap.
Nokia went for Windows because of the acquisition target, not because of quality of the OS. With that, they prioritized business strategy over product quality, and we all know what happened after.
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They brought in a trojan horse with Elop. Any sensible company at the time would have bet on both horses. E.g. Samsung and HTC had both Android and Windows Phone devices. IIRC there was even one Samsung model (I think a Samsung ATIV) that you could install both Android and Windows Phone 8 on.
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I owned a WP7 and an Android around that time.
Any WP7 polish advantage was skin deep at best. It took approximately 3-5 interactions for something to break in 3rd party apps and maybe twice that in first party apps.
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They already had Meego which was a true Linux distribution, already more polished than Android and fully Open Source; unfortunately the deal with Microsoft implied the termination of any further development of it in favor of Windows Mobile, and the rest is history.
WP7 was more polished than Android - I went from an HTC Evo to a Lumia - but a lot of that polish was in the same style as early-iOS: fewer features and capabilities, just done well and with better consistency.
I think betting on either (a) MS beating Apple at their own game or (b) there being room in the market for two premium-limited-but-smoother-UX systems was a dicey call.
Nokia's hardware design advantage over that HTC was MUCH larger than WP7's UI advantage over Android, anyway. I would've stuck with Android but moved to Nokia in a heartbeat if that sleek blue slab of plastic phone ran Android.
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The cheapness of the hardware is an interesting point.
I worked with an ex Nokia hardware engineer around that time and he said lots of them had left / been laid off (can't remember which) since Windows Phone could only run on quite specific chipsets (Qualcomm, I think), which basically made their jobs less useful.
But if cost was a factor then maybe that was part of the point, rather than a side effect of the decision.
As a software engineer I'd have to disagree. In 2011 Windows on handheld devices was a consistently low quality product that had at least a decade of Microsoft failing at it behind it. Believing that Microsoft would suddenly be capable of producing a quality product after more than a decade of not being able to was a highly irrational view. And this isn't something you'd have to particularly clever to see back then.
Let's not forget just how bad Microsoft products for handhelds were in the 2000s. (In fact, if you have any devices from back then, dig them out and try them. They are a lot worse than everyone seems to remember. And Microsoft released this stuff with a straight face).
Android might have been behind in 2011, but it had more momentum and it didn't have bone cancer - it had sound bones. It was pretty obvious that Android was going to be the better bet when you have 1-2 years of lead time. As Nokia would have had anyway to get something put together.
It is really hard to see how rational people would make such poor choices - unless motivated to do so.
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I worked in Nokia at the time this happened and saw from the inside how the company was ran into the ground by internal incompetence, years of mismanagement, arrogance, and ineptness.
Stephen Elop gets the blame for this often but he was merely the messenger boy. Put there by a board that allowed all this to happen long before he was installed to quickly execute what had been decided by that board. And that board was lead by its former CEO Jorma Ollila. Who made Nokia big in the nineties and was instrumental in its demise and involved with all the key blunders in the ten years prior to selling the remains of the phone division to Microsoft.
Nokia thought they were being smart by jumping ship to Microsoft's Windows Phone. But the reality was that was the merely the latest in a series of very misguided moves that started in the late nineties when they failed to see the potential of Linux and bet on Symbian instead. Nokia's leadership had an enormous blindspot when it came to software. It's technical leadership consisted of people with radio and electrical engineering backgrounds. They were simply incapable of seeing what was happening very clearly in the industry in the late nineties. Linux was happening in a very big and obvious way. And it was inevitably going to run on phones. That was clear in 1999 and a reality before the first Symbian phones even shipped.
By the time Google bought Android, backing Symbian had very obviously been a bad move. By that time there were so many people trying to get Linux going on phones that it was just a matter of time before someone succeeded. Google wanted in on the action. Linux/Android was their quick way in.
Nokia was struggling to get Symbian to market while all that was happening. It was crap. The first versions crashed all the time and were really sluggish and klunky. Incidentally, Nokia actually killed a touch screen platform for Symbian that they never launced. In 2005 as the rumors about the iphone started circulating. Nokia was instead obsessing over flip phones and saw Motorola's razr as its biggest threat. So, it killed the touch screen platform mistakingly thinking that it was not needed.
All this was so obvious that in fact a department in Nokia took it upon themselves to build a Linux based platform. Maemo. The first product launched in late 2005. It was based on Debian Linux and featuring a UI built using GTK and a web browser that was based on Mozilla. A full six years before the first Ipad launched, Nokia had an linux based tablet with a touch screen. Exactly the right kind of thing to be bringing to market around then. Except the Nokia management was completely blind to this and kept on favoring Symbian.
Years later when Google finally unveiled Android after Apple launched the iphone. Google had been relying on a lot of the R&D that went into Maemo. As they lacked a phone until they launched the first Nexus, they even used the N800 as a development platform for Android. There was even a port of Android that you could boot on an N800. I know because I had one and tried it.
Google bought and eventually launched Android between 2005 and 2009. But it was Nokia that was doing a lot of the heavy lifting on kernel development. By 2008 Nokia had a very coherent platform strategy for launching a Linux based range of phones. By 2010 that strategy included a UI platform (QT), Meego, and a then still secret entirely new platform based on Linux aimed at feature phones that got unceremoniously cancelled in 2012 without a product ever having been launched.
Nokia's failure was favoring Symbian throughout this chaotic period until it was crystal clear that the market was never going to favor Symbian and that all attempts at open sourcing it and fixing it were simply not succeeding. By then Google was succeeding with Android and Apple was growing market share with the iphone without Nokia ever having gotten serious at even trying to compete with the platform it had all along.
The thing is, it took Google many years to turn Android into a decent platform after they launched it. The first versions had all sorts of issues with poor UX, poor performance, stability, security, etc. Manufacturers used it mainly because Symbian and Windows CE were worse and there wasn't much else in the market that they could use. And they were hopeless at doing software themselves. And while the iphone was popular, the first versions were pretty limited in features.
So, Nokia had a chance for several years to launch a platform based on the same Linux kernel that Android was using that they were using in Meego. They had all the pieces to pull that off; including a large base of existing users that still loved their Nokias. But they blew their chances because internally Symbian was the darling and people backing that spend years frustrating and delaying Meego.
Phones that were intended to launch with Meego in fact launched with Symbian. They bought Trolltech (QT) to fix the UI for Meego but that turned into a project to fix Symbian instead. The original Maemo devices were using GTK. That move delayed a Meego launch by three years or so as the UI platform they had was scrapped in favor of QT. The only Linux phone with QT that ever launched was the N9. And only after they decided to kill the platform and fire the team. The N900 before that (2009) was still using GTK. It was fine. I had one. Pretty awesome device at the time. Way nicer than anything Google was shipping. But it was very obviously a developer phone and never aimed at consumers ,and a bit klunky, and limited from a hardware point of view. Almost as if they wanted it to fail.
The N9 was launched after Stephen Elop had been appointed around the time of this silly memo. The decision to can it was of course taken before he joined. One of his first moves was killing that at the same time as he was killing Symbian. Basically, he killed Symbian, Meego, and Meltemi (the linux based feature phone platform) to make room for windows phone. In a bizarre move of defiance, Nokia actually managed to launch an Android phone just before MS acquired the phone unit and promptly killed that.
For me as a young outside software developer I saw the N900 and it was my dream phone. I couldn't afford a smartphone but I was ready to buy the N1000 when it came out. And then, it just didn't.
In the IT school I was at Nokia was a regular topic of conversation. All of us completely frustrated that they were apparently unwilling to invest in a Linux based phone and everybody eventually getting an Android or IPhone.
They really had a chance, they were at the right time with the close to the right product and just failed.
He wasn’t wrong, but he didn’t seem to understand what the impact this memo would have on the world outside of Nokia. Nokia relies on orders for phones from network operators and this memo pulled the rug from under those orders.
The Maemo/Megoo devices did a ton of stuff better then android. The multitasking was amazing in comparison. Some of basic apps were better.
And there is a pretty clear path to making an android comparability layer.
Also, even if you want to switch to Android (or Windows) just 'burn it all down' is a bad strategy. That was a profitable business and still had huge market share. Just pissing all over it wasn't a good plan.
The N9 was a better phone than anything they released subsequently. The TI OMAP being eol and the lack of 4g were for sure problems but Elops cure was worse than the disease.
Here's a contemporaneous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2195520
I'm surprised how positive HN was about this. I don't remember reading any positive coverage at the time. I personally thought the guy was an idiot. He wound up performing worse than my expectations.
Looks like that discussion was before Windows Phone was announced as the replacement. E.g. " The idea of a Nokia device running Android is pretty appealing. They've always had good hardware, but Symbian has become a develpment dead-end, and Meego isn't yet here. "
Symbian definitely wasn't the way forward. MeeGo wasn't looking like it was gonna be an iOS or Android killer.
Elop was right about needing to change horses. Terribly wrong about which one to pick, in retrospect. One could argue that MS fucked that up as much as Nokia, though - this was before MS continually screwed up their WP strategy for several subsequent years, like with the WP8 hard reset. Even best case, though, it was a high-risk/high-reward gamble to try to be "the" WP7 phone instead of one of many Android contenders. Would've been interesting to see them take on Samsung instead of just HTC and zombie Motorola, though.
> Elop was right about needing to change horses.
What was wrong with MeeGo?
The memo just states:
> at this rate, by the end of 2011, we might have only one MeeGo product in the market.
But that's not soo bad considering that they started the platform in 2010.
It's not like changing to a different platformbat this point would make things faster anyway.
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> MeeGo wasn't looking like it was gonna be an iOS or Android killer.
I had an n900 in 2009. I think they theoretically had a winner there.
But they never prioritized it above Symbian.
Then between the n900 and the n9, they totally rewrote the UI on a new toolkit, wasting resources and making it clear that if you write an app for it they may completely discard 95% of the app platform from release to release.
If they had iterated on Maemo 5 in that time and put all hands on deck behind it they could have used those ~3 years more productively and been more competitive. Maemo 5 was actually pretty close to what they needed.
Blackberry had a similar situation. Like meego, in bb10 they had a qt based platform in the early 2010s. But it was too late. The biggest blunder is not doing it sooner, before Android solidified.
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Couldn’t they have gone for both? Say an Android line and a Win line?
Yeah. In that thread at the time [0] I remarked that the "burning platform" theme/metaphor was highly unoriginal, and therefore, not a good sign.
I was afraid disaster would ensue...
Maybe it was impossible to do better, but it seems it would have been difficult to do worse.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2196311
Heh, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2195785 seemly that post and Sahaj response to it unfortunately were the ones that were correct.
It was somewhat of a 3-body problem: carriers, oems, and developers. Carriers wanted branding and bundling. OEMs wanted to market a distinction design. Developers wanted a platform. Three cooks with competing tastes.
For example: the Moto-Q ran Windows, shoe-horned in some AT&T UX junk, and a huge nubin that stuck out in the middle. It pioneered the ever present "pocket dial." Was thinking of developing for it, but after a few dozen pocket dials, I wanted to go full Frisbee mode.
Apple cut through the 3-body problem. They controlled the UX. Such as integrated voice-mail. The carrier didn't mess with the UX. After a few months, Apple provided a decent development environment -- maybe as a response to all the jailbreak apps that we were making.
Around that time I was in a focus group. What struck me was a horror story from a Symbian developer. Their toolchain broke after an incremental update. Lost a week dealing with it. That kind-of put me off of Symbian.
Maybe the real choice for Nokia was: either the burning platform or the sharks.
I worked an application that was distributed as part of the OS for pretty much every nokia symbian phone. We hired quite a few folks who had worked directly for Symbian. The stories were crazy.
There were major components people refused to even touch (like messaging) because the code was basically unmaintainable. An aggressive refactor of the entire OS was needed but they never really got comfortable with that. Symbian was originally essentially an operating system targeted at a calculator that outgrew itself several times over.
The first modern slab phone I ever saw wasn’t an iPhone… it was a Nokia prototype in like 2005. If they had a real operating system in place maybe Nokia is the world’s most valuable company today.
The slab-phone was probably a response on the SonyEricsson P series that was really good, had a p900 myself (p800 2002,p900 2003,p910 2004). It's such a shame that SonyEricsson regressed in their design mojo because their 2006 followups of the series (p990, m600, w950) _decreased_ screen size and added front buttons (I started looking at other replacements until I got myself an iPhone 3G when they finally came out here).
I've heard rumors that Android was originally supposed to be an OS for digital cameras.
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Isn't the carrier concern US-only though? In many other countries carriers know nothing about phones. Carriers sell cell service, electronics stores sell unlocked phones.
Yes, the under appreciated secret sauce Apple had was a brand with enough prestige that they could dictate terms to Cingular Wireless. Cingular couldn't put bloatware on it, they couldn't load it with crappy video "services" that played 15 second clips of football games for $19.95 per month. They couldn't charge a fee for a map app. They couldn't even paste their logo on it. Etc., etc.
I liked my Nokia phones - they were ergonomic but not innovative; they were great "just a phone"-type phones. My wife even purchased a re-make of one of their classic phones recently.
But I loved my BlackBerries - they were the perfect tool for email/chat/calling and nothing else, the perfect complement to a laptop, whereas iPads partially overlap with both mobile phones AND laptops in terms of functionality, which is why at airports you now see so many people carrying three devices instead of one.
So while I have fond memories of Nokia, I don't miss their devices, but I'd give my metaphorical leg for getting my BB back.
Agreed on BB. I was interested when they moved to Android, and then they died. There still isn't a good, high-end Android with a keyboard from a company I know I can trust.
I was interested that Blackberry didn't use Android - their QNX based OS had a lot of potential. At the time, my Android phone would get hot and drain the battery whenever a batch process decided to reindex my media.
I had a Nokia N9 as my daily driver for years (2011-2015 if I recall right) and still have it.
That phone was absolutely top tier at the time. It lacked some apps but overall it was an amazing phone. Everyone always wanted to know what it was I was using.
I wish they had continued pushing it forward.
It really was a nice device. Great size, took excellent photos for the time, and that AMOLED screen with the always-on clock and black blacks. I'd probably have one today if it were LTE capable.
Qt/Sailfish worked well enough too but it definitely had its defects. My biggest complaint was they didn't ship complete source prepared for convenient reproduction of the firmware and out-of-box encouraged flashing of self-made builds. Then I would have been fixing the bugs I tripped over.
How Stephen Elop destroyed Nokia
https://seekingalpha.com/article/916271-how-stephen-elop-des...
Ironically, it looks like Nokia, on the other hand, rescued Microsoft (out of its ideology-obsessed acting) by providing it with a great new CEO.
They didn't lose when the iPhones and Androids came out. They lost when at their peak because they became complacent. It just took a few years to manifest itself. If the leadership had been worth their salaries they would have known with every fiber of their being that Symbian was already dead. Both due to where hardware was going and because of the rather obvious answer to "how do the next 5 billion people get online".
Nokia was "old people in suits". I don't think the company was ever going to be capable of transformation.
Funny how getting acquihired by Microsoft, pocketing $5bn+, and still making the best phones to this date, is considered "losing".
You seem to misremember a few things. MSFT paid $7.2bn. After 3 years Microsoft wrote it off as a loss.
That amount of money is roughly what the top two smart phone manufacturers make in one week of sales. The industry represents a multi trillion dollar combined market cap due to smart phone sales. Then there is all the new businesses it enabled, creating wealth for developers.
Oh yes, Nokia lost. There really isn't any spin one can put on that.
Are you talking about individuals or the organization? I’m sure some employees in management “won” financially, there are very few failed companies where that isn’t the case.
Great hw engineers let down by less than stellar software decisions.
Nokia owned a significant slice of late stage pre internet telephony infrastructure level equipment, bridged over to the emerging mobile world and .. kinda missed the boat when Apple happend in with iPhone and then Android's emergence killed them.
A lot of people loved their handsets. Just not enough in any single market to make up for some bad decisions.
A similar fate: I wonder if the myriad of vendors who glued to the Japanese market regretted it, as that model shrank as internet rose?
The network / infrastructure side of Nokia still exists. When the handsets division was split or sold off, the network division continued as Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN), and was rebranded to Nokia Networks I think after the merger with Alcatel-Lucent.
So for the big mobile wireless telco's, the big players are basically Nokia, Erricson, and Huawei these days. My experience with Nokia's equipment did reflect the burning platform memo, but all the big players had lots to be desired in my experience with them.
Note: I've been out of the industry for several years, so I'm not totally up to date on the vendors.
> the network division continued as Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN), and was rebranded to Nokia Networks
It wasn't just a rebranding. Nokia wisely bought Siemens out from the Networks joint venture already in 2013, before selling the phones to Microsoft. Then in 2015, they acquired Alcatel-Lucent (including Bell Labs) to the mix. This way, they stayed in Fortune Global 500 even without the phone business.
And nowadays there are new Nokia branded feature phones as well as Android phones and tablets: https://www.nokia.com/phones/
> Great hw engineers let down by less than stellar software decisions.
I remember reading a deep dive into how exactly Nokia run it's cellular department, in it's corporate culture... and things there were not great. Everything were behind the red tape and countless meetings, every feature had someone who was appointed as an 'owner' of that feature and if you need to change something what would somehow involve that feature you needed an approval from that owner. And if the guy didn't want to give the approval, because he was afraid to take the responsibility than there was nothing you could with it. Same in the Symbian dept.
People like to shit on Elop, but with or without him the mighty Finnish giant would die anyway. With Elop and MS deal they, at least, tried to do something and saved jobs for a couple of years (though not all). Without MS deal all those people would been on the street in 2013 at best.
<<A lot of people loved their handsets.
That included me. I had fond memories of an near indestructible 3310 and I genuinely wish I did not miss the boat on N900 ( I just landed in US and phone was the least of my concerns then ).
<<Just not enough in any single market to make up for some bad decisions.
Sadly, clearly there are decisions that can sink even a dominant power in the market. He is not HP's Fiorina. He did have some wins in previous positions, which makes a person like me question whether the failures at Nokia was little more than a sabotage. Obviously, we will likely never really know.
Internally they didn't miss the boat. They literally were on the boat and were crushing it. But they failed to make actual products and continued selling crappy Synbian based phones.
https://maemo-leste.github.io/
> Maemo Leste continues the legacy of Maemo ... based on Devuan Beowulf (Debian Buster) and all the supported devices ship with recent mainline Linux kernels. We are currently in the development phase and we are actively searching for developers. For some devices, we have development images available - such as the Nokia N900, Motorola Droid 4, and the PinePhone. There is also a 64bit virtual machine you can use to try out Maemo Leste.
Software WIP status: https://leste.maemo.org/Status
I wish I could speak more to the experience directly. I eventually got a n900 used but after the fall, & I was a college kid with no real need for it. What was thrilling & exciting & totally different was that the n900 was a computer. A regular computer. Trying to learn how to make GNOME an ok experience, on very low res mobile. But we knew essentially what it was; it obeyed & played within the regularinux desktop environment world. it was a linux desktop environment, and that gave it open potential. Everything is/was orchestrateable/controllable by dbus, the user's control plane. All the apps exposed themselves over IPC. It played in the connected desktop world as best of breed.
The failure of this situation to talk about how intensely stupid it was to give up on the platform is farcically bad. What was here was incredible. It needed improvement & work but the architecture was immensely omni-potential, more capable clearly & growing well known existing tech well, rather than alternate reality symbian or then counter respondes danger or android. weird new alternates to actual linux desktop. Selling out to MS was one of the most shortsighted sorry pathetic givings ups, in a time of vast growth with fantastically little belief in yourself & your people doing good. There was no technical reason to refocus. (But bad numbers, as most players saw). They should have kept going. This was a decision made by people who had faint sense, gailed to appreciate hope, missed clarity on what creating value was like, what value was. This was a pathetic ignorant stupid business decision, to end Maemo. Things rocked, that was a great could do possibility, the OLE COM competitor kf DBus was winning, the market just didnt see yet.
Nokia had a chance, but their developer experience was terrible. They should have invested in it. And also open source. They could have open sourced their platform and compete with Android.
What did they do instead? They made an extremely stupid bet on Microsoft, which by that time was even further behind in mobile world than Nokia itself.
Symbian was open sourced at one point and before that, available for others to make phones with, SonyEricsson had a couple, I think there were one or two others as well. The Nokia linux phones were open sourceish as well, in partnership with Intel.
Open or closed source wasn't the problem, really.
> I think there were one or two others as well
Motorola A925, Motorola A1000, Motorola RIZR Z8, Motorola RIZR Z10 (aka 'banana')
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Motorola+Z8&t=ffcm&iar=images&iax=...
If your platform is trash just opening it up doesn't matter.
And their linux based phones were pretty open but they had no power in the organization and having an open source platform with no phones is pointless.
> We too, are standing on a “burning platform,” and we must decide how we are going to change our behaviour.
Aaaand that's where I would have decided to get a new job. I've survived two different "roll up your sleeves, plebs, the management set our house on fire" scenarios. Never again.
People pick on nokia for making the wrong choice, but i dont think they were wrong. Apps are important and they are a bit of a winner takes all market (or at least half). Nokia was screwed and i think the memo correctly identifies that.
Unfortunately identifying the problem is only half the battle. Figuring out what to do next is the other half, and that is where nokia failed.
As everybody at the time was pointing out. If you are unwilling to make your own platform (Maemo/MeGoo) work, then just make Andoird phones. It wasn't really tha difficult and many people had been screaming about this since 2009.
But instead they just continued with the Symbian feature phones that nobody wanted.
I can really recommend reading “Operation Elop” - https://asokan.org/operation-elop/ it’s a fascinating look at everything that happened.
As a former Nokia/HERE employee, I agree. A really interesting read!
It is a book originally written in Finnish by two journalists who start out with the question of whether Elop was placed at Nokia with the goal of "handing over" the phone business to MS. Their final answer is "no": it is unlikely that this was the case, according to their research. Most decisions that were taken were rational and explainable, many of them risky but adequate given the desperate situation ...
I was not at the company at the time of the memo, having joined in 2012. I do remember the morning when every employee at Nokia got an SMS on their phone saying that the phone business was sold to Microsoft. I was part of the maps division that was later sold to a consortium of German, an event that was way less spectacular ...
>At the lower-end price range, Chinese OEMs are cranking out a device much faster than, as one Nokia employee said only partially in jest, “the time that it takes us to polish a PowerPoint presentation.” They are fast, they are cheap, and they are challenging us.
Never forget that no matter how brilliant you think your company is, there are five of those companies in China, four of which are brand new and working in a playground of mass production at scales you can't comprehend. If the world ever shifts power and relevance to China the whole West will collectively have a burning platform situation. China's not just "cheap", and when people start trusting them for the occasional higher-quality product, and there's a market for it, they'll come for all of us.
Make no mistake, China's industrial prowess will be the major game-changing force in the 2020's.
Nokia was slow. That's part of what got them when Apple launched the iPhone.
Chinese manufacturers are already doing top quality products. Huawei phone are/we're on par with the iPhone and were selling like hot cakes until the company was stopped "by any means necessary".
Nokia suffered from lack of direction from the top... They had both symbian and maemo, both officially blessed, but incompatible. Symbian was the past and maemo had promise, so what did management do... a hail mary bet on microsoft? It came out of nowhere and seemed desperate, I believe the market's reaction reflected this sadly.
It wasn't also that well received inside, as we were pretty much a UNIX shop.
Yeah, and then they jumped from this (allegedly) burning platform to a sinking platform - lot of good it did them...
Operation Elop is also a fascinating read.
https://medium.com/@harrikiljander/operation-elop-6f2b043f52...
I remember thinking at the time that is was a great metaphor, and then reading on HN that its straight from some business school text on how to motivate change.
"Leading Change" by John Kotter as far as I recall.
A great metaphor, unless it’s used inappropriately, which is like 99% of the time. And Kotter is the excuse for a ton of change-by-imposition too. As someone interested in change, I kinda wish that the 1990’s hadn’t happened. There is a lot that’s good and exciting in the organisation development space, but that metaphor and Kotter’s model are not representative of it.
I just bought a new Nokia phone. Part from nostalgia since the last one I owned was over 10 years ago, part because it seemed to be good value for its price (300€).
Now, having used it for a while, I wouldn't say I'm impressed - design-wise Apple products for example are miles ahead. Yet I don't really have anything to complain about - it does what a modern phone should do. It's pretty big though so it's harder to put into your pocket but I guess that's just how phones are nowadays.
I'll be more interested to see though how long the phone will last, my previous OnePlus endured 5 years before the electronics started to show their age. I hope Nokia still has its built-quality and this one will be rocking way past that with couple of drops to concrete in-between.
> its price (300€)
> design-wise Apple products for example are miles ahead
Well yes, of course. The cheapest iPhone, the SE, which is of an old design and with an old chip, costs 500€+. You can't expect 50%+ price difference to result in no difference in what you get.
Premium Android phones closer to iPhone pricing are usually better design-wise.
Well by design I meant in general its shape and feel. Like the logo at the bottom of the screen, the way it's positioned little asymmetrically between the lighted and darkened area is to me a little jarring. Or why it's there in the first place. And the bevel between screen and the frame, I think it could have been done better.
So it's not really "of course, that's how it's supposed to be". I did not like the feel of some of the premium Android phones either, so I think it's just in general the vibe of the phone that I don't find that exciting.
It's a fine phone but it feels the people who made the phone were not overly passionate about making it. Which makes sense but I had hoped more distinct personality out of it. Not just another generic mid-range Android phone.
Boy, did Nokia elope after this with M$ft phone which was supposed to right Nokia's collective "ship". Elop joined the hallowed hall of fame of abysmal CEO's who ran their firms into the ground. Remember Lumia, Windows Phone 7,8 & 10 blehh.
Was it Balmer that hired Elop?
I had a Windows 8 phone from Nokia around 2015 or so and other than the lack of apps it was a phone like pretty much any other at the time or even these days. By that I mean I don't remember anything really bad about it, especially because I mostly use the web anyway.
I have no idea why things succeed or fail and so I don't know for this either, but my guess is it was new, but didn't have anything that provoked an interest with mainstream users. And Microsoft does not have many faithful users.
I wonder if they threw in the towel too soon. I too had a Nokia Windows phone and I loved it. They were popular in South Africa as Nokia was a recognised brand. Bandwidth is still expensive here so most people just need WhatsApp and Facebook and they are fine. Perhaps the developed market needed more apps.
It didn't matter how good or bad it was, Windows was a toxic brand on mobile. A very large segment of potential customers was rejecting it off hand based on their desktop Windows experience. They may have been stuck with it on the desktop but on mobile even if they weren't sure what they wanted they definitely knew that it wasn't THAT.
I use to work for HTC. I was there when iPaq launched and saw the birth of first PocketPC phone, a black and white screen phone for Sagem/Mitsubishi. I would like to share my opinion on this issue of tech disruption. From my point of view, Nokia did not have enough resource and time to meet the challenge which was brought about by Apple and Google/Android. All the tech companies need at least one dominating advantage in order to survive. This dominating advantage needs to crush all challenger in that specific area. Apple has operating system. Samsung has display. Chinese phone makers have CCP. Nokia had nothing that matter. They had two choices, create one or buy one. They were not able to do either so they fade away.
>Nokia had nothing that matter
Nokia had extremely high hardware quality. Indestructible Nokia 3310 meme and all that.
High hardware quality is always important but it is not enough to build a moat to stop the competition. I remember a Siemens quality manager told me the high hardware quality of Siemens's phone when HTC was building a phone for Siemens. High hardware quality did not save Siemens's phone business either.
By the time they admitted this to themselves, it was like a decade too late to do anything about it
I'm pretty sure the metaphorical platform had already fully melted down by 2011, they just hadn't realized it yet. Nokia was not dead on January 9th, 2007 but maybe by 2008 when the App Store launched or perhaps in 2010 when FaceTime launched with the iPhone 4. At that time Nokia made very solid utility devices that admirably did their jobs. What they failed to ever make and what I suspect they failed to realize that Apple was making was a desire object - something that was more than the sum of its parts. The N9000 and the N9 were technically very good (on paper even better than the iPhone) but they lacked the integrated and holistic design decisions that made the iPhone special.
> Apple was making was a desire object - something that was more than the sum of its parts.
It's harder to do now with iPhone's market size, but I think we're looking at it with rosy glasses.
Where Apple succeeded is having a viable touch interface. That's where RIM, Nokia, Fujitsu, Compaq and countless other device makers failed at. Including Nokia.
Otherwise the iPhone was buggy and crashing all the time, battery life was trash compared to other phones or the iPod, I don't know anyone actually relying on it to make "serious" calls (we kept our feature phones) it would straight ignore some of the incomming calls and we just were willing to go through all of that to get a usable touch UI.
> I don't know anyone actually relying on it to make "serious" calls (we kept our feature phones) it would straight ignore some of the incomming calls
I know there was a lot of noise about dropped calls and all that in the US, but this was not a thing here in Europe. I would assume that the issue was at least as much with AT&T than with the iPhone.
Here there were controversies about a lot of things (for example, it became caught up in the electro-sensitivity pseudoscience argument, there was also some noise about the glass front being brittle), but not reception. At least not before the iPhone 4.
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Windows Phone was quite good, but Microsoft had a terrible case of chronically fucking everything up.
They made everyone buy new phones for Windows Phone 8, which did not have any user-visible changes (though it did switch the OS to NT).
They took multiple years to add basic functionality like a notification center, and by the time they did, it was too late.
They actually shot themselves in the foot and had extremely poor Office support - behind even the competitor platforms that got a proper set of apps.
They bought Nokia's phone business and then just gave up completely.
What's a shame. I liked the minimalist Zune-like UI - it was perfect for a phone. And it just looked cool.
I believe Microsoft literally ran an advertisement suggesting that people were spending too much time on their phones. This was an ad for their own smartphones.
That's an interesting look into their corporate attitude at the time.
You could say that their Office app monopoly sabotaged their web browser (and the web in general) and their desktop monopoly sabotaged their phones (and phones in general) but both the web and smartphones proved stronger in the end.
Looking at Nokia stock over the past 3 decades, you’d be hard pressed to pinpoint where the burning memo happened or say if it killed the company (I’d say it didn’t, the value is pretty flat from before the memo until now. It did kill the handset division).
However, it is easy to find the iPhone.
https://g.co/kgs/MVvYKr (click more -> max)
Anyone remember Nokia plan B?
When that came out I created nokiaplanc.com
https://web.archive.org/web/20110218174018/http://www.nokiap...
Which was then followed by others creating nokiaplane.com and so on
With all this talk of tech and business, am I the only one who's wondering about safety measures on oil rigs? Can you climb up the legs to stay away from sharks? Do they have life rafts and emergency supplies on the bottom of the legs so you can wait for rescue?
It seems like every tech company eventually reaches a similar fate of fading into irrelevance as more innovative competitors emerge (e.g. DEC, BlackBerry, Yahoo). Will today's tech giants suffer the same fate? If so, how soon?
Switching to Microsoft seemed like the best decision at that time. Those criticizing are underestimating the software engineering effort required to build a modern OS and the app ecosystem.
But what about Symbian and Ovi? I've had a bunch of Symbian devices with the Ovi store. They were simply not in the same league; the apps were basic because the development tools were just not good enough; and targeted basic low-end experiences. Windows Phone was the most modern OS out there (including the dev tooling); and had the best shot at competing with the Androids. I also bought the N800 (which ran Maemo) from Nokia in 2007. It was ok - but it never looked like a phone platform.
Why was Windows a better choice than Android? You mentioned that Windows had “the best shot of competing with Android”, but why was that desirable? The adage, if you can’t beat them, join them comes to mind.
Oddly, Windows Phone 8 had the best user experience of any phone I've ever used, by far.
I'd still be on it if it existed and wasn't laden with Windows 10 style telemetry. I don't care about having a wide selection of apps. I care about having a low-distraction, well organized UI that's optimized for specific tasks.
For instance, opening an entry in the address book produced a cross-social-network feed of everything they sent you recently (including call logs, email, SMS, twitter, etc...).
That was fantastic, but prepared to have your mind blown: Typing an address into the navigation app and hitting enter (or tapping on a destination) immediately started navigating.
8.1 was strictly a UI regression. I heard 8.5 was even worse.
Maybe they concluded (rightly) that there are no margins in Android devices. Samsung is a rare exception, but by then the signs were clear that manufacturing (including the R&D around it) was shifting to East Asia.
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Did you forget about Meego? They shipped the N9 with it. 12 years of iteration on that would have yielded an experience comparable to iOS or Android for sure.
You know it's going to be a bad memo when it starts with a LinkedIn story. Very sad they chose to jump instead of innovating their way out.
The best phone I owned was Nokia Lumia with Windows phone 7 OS. Too bad Microsoft was led by Ballmer at the time.
Has any Nokia B9 user also tried Sailfish OS? Is it a proper successor to the Harmattan Meego distro the N9 had?
I ported it to a couple of Android devices and used it as a daily driver for a year or so.
It is technically a successor, but it just wasn't there. App story was worse than N9 (without considering alien dalvik/anbox/waydroid).
Some of the technical decisions they've made meant more headaches for developers (Old gcc version. Old Qt version. Repacking Fedora arm packages just to run on sfos wasn't fun). The browser was based on a very old and buggy Firefox version. At the end of the day, it wasn't even fully open source.. so you always had to play catch up with their updates just to keep your mods working.
Despite all that, the community was vibrant and very talented. Oddly enough, it was also smoother to use and feels more well designed than Android on the same device. Even little things like double tap to wake, being easier for one hand usage
> Has any Nokia B9 user also tried Sailfish OS? Is it a proper successor to the Harmattan Meego distro the N9 had?
Yes I have it installed on a Sony Xperia. It's not my main phone (I have a work phone that I mainly use), but I would say it works very similar to the N9 so yes a proper successor. The major downside is a relatively small selection of native apps and that the platform did not progress as much as it could have. I would recommend that anyone who has a phone that can run it should try it out.
I had the Jolla phone back in the day. It was kind of similar to N9, but nowhere the almost magical experience N9 PR1.3 was. The lack of apps was starting to show, the on screen keyboard wasn't that good, the browser was just bad (to be honest, N9 wasn't keeping up with the standards either) and the hardware didn't do anything to improve the experience.
I mean the Nokia-Microsoft phones were great
Everyone who had one said so. It was the best of all the “third option” OS devices. All the WebOSes and such.
But the market just doesn’t want a third option… even back then the Android and iOS were ossified
Were they? I had a Lumia with WP7 and it had nearly zero apps, zero multitasking (accidentally click on the Bing button and your app state is lost) and near zero things to do. I remember a very visible metaphor for the whole device was the calendar's month view: it literally showed "Lorem ipsum" for the days you had some events. Supposedly due to performance concerns, and this lasted to WP8 as well.
The only cool thing was the grid but that only goes skin deep. Otherwise I hated the phone. Maybe WP8+ devices were better but WP7 was a piece of crap. I didn't want to try WP8 and got myself a Jolla instead.
The market's only thought about the OS is what features it supports. And lots of them are provided by 3rd party apps. Lots of people switch from Android to iPhone and back. People mostly just want to keep using their TikTok, Instagram, WhatsApp, ...
It's the app developers (and their companies) who wouldn't be happy with a third option, because the existing two cause enough problems, just think about how many frameworks for cross-platform app development exist, they were created for a reason..., and even with them you still have to do OS-specific stuff to tackle different app store policies, different privacy features, updated APIs breaking your app on new OS versions... or you can have two entirely separate teams working on two separate codebases and try to keep the feature parity...
Nokia had so many missed opportunities…
> Apple disrupted the market by redefining the smartphone
Apple invented the smartphone. The fact Nokia didn't understand that shows why it failed.
No, they made a smartphone with UI/software first approach and thereby _matured_ it.
The 2002 SonyEricsson p800 (and the p900, p910 followups) kinda sniffed on the form-factor (it was basically the same if you disconnected the numpad) and software had all the features incl a "proper" browser (but not nearly the same polish).
Sadly it seems it was an isolated "enterprise" group that seems to have been hamstrung later (the followup phones made the form factor worse and the UI improvement was marginal compared to the leap the iPhone took).
Apple should get the credit for making the smartphone industry what it is today but there's no need to rewrite history.
When compared to Android devices, Windows devices have more computing power, more memory, and a more powerful CPU. This is useful if you have a fat client with a lot of data for things like real-time visualizations and you want your devices to keep up with your users as they complete their tasks. However, all of this extra power means that the battery drains faster and the devices run hotter. When using a unit that is mounted or placed in a docking station with a constant power supply, this is not an issue.
Please update the title with [2011]
I covered quite a few Nokia reviews back in the day and Nokia was by far the most arrogant company to deal with.
Every company has it's rules and regulations regarding review devices but with Nokia you had to sign up to three forms just to do your work. Partly with ridiculous rules like a missing charger or cable was up to 50 Euros or so.
And they let you very much know where in the pecking order you were regarding your publication and who would get the devices first and last. This was in Germany.
Everybody at Nokia strived for not just being difficult but outright jerks to deal with... so when Apple came around and the disaster started to unfold it was quite the show to watch...
"ah Nokia would like to invite you to this and that shebang..." ah no thanks I think I'm good.
I'm not the guy who carries a grudge but Nokia really made it personal with their whole behavior.
Apple and Samsung aren't perfect but their marketing people are always nice and super helpful.
To dogpile into this, in ~2005 I had one of the worst preseed round experiences raising from Nokia.
They clearly had a mandate to make some moves in mobile, so we were in their target sphere. But the investor was just so slow about moving, lackadaisical in personality, and seemed like he was more paid to come into the office versus actually achieve results (regardless of whether they funded us).
I later read Clayton Christianson and immediately knew what he was talking about with old dinosaurs resting on their laurels.
Good riddance. Market forces don't always act in the interest of society, but when it does like this (v Apple, Android) it's refreshing to see.
Nokia has been one of the companies I had most fun working at, you just met the wrong folks.
The difference is the target audience. When a company reaches a huge size, employees have an incentive to act nice internally, because that's the way to promotion; but they have no incentive to be nice towards external folks. It takes effort from management to ensure people act nicely towards others, and Nokia clearly failed at that.
I met one of their "evangelist" when they were trying to push Qt. He came to a iOS usergroup, so clearly in "enemy territory", and just used a precooked slide deck that compared Qt to Symbian - nobody gave a shit about Symbian there, but that's how they lived, stuck in their bubble. He was quite off-putting and way too commercial-focused for a tech UG; I already knew Qt and left thinking I could have done a better job of selling the tech.
You were on the other side of the table
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The difference is that no "developers are just tools that should be outsourced whenever cheaper" company has a chance against a true software company (which I count Apple towards even though they're more known for the hardware) deciding to enter the competition.
Nokia was not a software company at all. They treated their OS and UX as an afterthought and put hardware features first.
The same is currently happening in the automotive world with their in-car software. Auto makers aren't thinking of their OSs and UX and the people who develop them as the absolute center point of their industry, when they are.
Is this a website that hasn't been updated in four years?
The memo is from 2011, so that hardly matters?
I'm really having trouble understanding why this is even relevant in 2022. Who cares what the excuses and problems were within Nokia in 2011? Is Nokia's inability to keep up with cell phone technology in 2011 and important part of technical history? Business history? If so, why? I didn't even really get the burning oil rig analogy. It was a pretty melodramatic way of describing being beaten by a competitor, which happens all the time in business history.
Then I looked around the whole website, and there was interesting data. Which ended in 2018. The whole website seems abandoned.
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My mother was one of 8 children born to Finnish immigrant parents in America. As an adult she used the local Mormon temple to research her ancestors, connected with them on Facebook, then re-established the family back into the old country. She then visited the matriarch and lived with her for 2 weeks as my distant cousins visited her and made their acquaintance.
Most recently my cousin, whose daughter has an extremely debilitating incurable illness, emigrated back to Finland on his sick daughter’s request. The whole family is attempting to learn Finnish but it is apparently a struggle compared to other languages they learned.
Totally off-topic, but Nokia is a sad story and Finland is a wonderful country with wonderful people.
The comments here mostly have the flavour of "RIP Nokia".
Nokia got out of the phone business in 2014. They still exist and are a mjor force in networking equipment.
True, they are of less interest to people here as they do not make many hackable consumer devices, but an obituary is premature
The choice to go with Microsoft eventually saved Nokia.
Offloading the Mobile Phone unit to Microsoft for nice $7 billion gave them room to breath. Without this, the losses from mobile phones might have dragged the whole company down and somebody could have acquired them for a small price.