The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1]
What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable prices in electric and gasoline versions is the Ford Transit.
BYD says that their strategy for now is to dominate in every country that does not have its own auto industry. Worry about the left-behind countries later.
BYD did it by 1) getting lithium-iron batteries to be cheaper, safer, and faster-charging, although heavier than lithium-ion, 2) integrating rear wheels, differential, axle, and motor into an "e-axle" unit that's the entire mechanical part of the power train, and 3) building really big auto plants in China.
Next step is to get solid state batteries into volume production, and build a new factory bigger than San Francisco.
I think one of the biggest problems in the United States is the misallocation of ambitious people. The highly educated and ambitious people see finance, government, tech, and corporate executive tracks, as the way to convert their energies into social status.
Even startups these days seem to be a case of too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
Well the problem is US wants to be the world's managers. And all we cared about is writing messenger apps. Totally missed the boat on building things, like houses, boats, and most of all new weird things we don't even have a concept for.
BYD's allowed to sell in Europe. They're not crushing the market here. They're not substantially cheaper, or better for what they offer for the price compared to other manufacturers.
I agree with the gist of that piece; focusing on specific engineering choices (important as they are) is missing the forest for a particularly interesting tree. Any American EV maker is heavily disadvantaged right now, no matter how clever they are.
What went wrong is that the federal government didn't build or legislate a national charging infrastructure to match the scale of the interstate highway system.
They could have strong-armed the states into it with a combination of funding the construction and the way they mandated the 21 drinking age: by threatening to withhold highway funds.
> They could have strong-armed the states into it with a combination of funding the construction and the way they mandated the 21 drinking age: by threatening to withhold highway funds.
Yea let's give the federal government more power. That's going so well right now.
Isn't this lack of forward thinking somewhat the general problem now?
From an EU perspective the world as it has existed in the living memory is a world shaped by decisive US-actions. The way EVs have been approached were anything but that. Arguably neither did Germany, because of the way their politicians are entangled with the car manufacturers.
I adored my Spark EV til it sadly died (fairly scarily, on a highway access road) one day. Chevy was never able to repair it and ultimately gave me a nice payout after paying for a rental for me for nearly a year.
But if you sold the Spark EV for 20k today with like 120mi of range, it would be perfect and would satisfy all my needs 99% of the time. Even mine (13k all in) was great here in LA with ~60mi of range. I loved how small and easy to park it was without feeling cramped to me at all. If it had CarPlay I'd've said it was the perfect car haha.
It's a shame they haven't rebooted it yet as a pure EV. It's right there in the name!
I don't really see how any car company can "fall behind" in EV.
Fundamentally, IMO, EVs are such a simple concept mechanically that any company capable of building a conventional ICE vehicle can build an EV.
It's glib to say that - obviously there's a lot of unsaid complexity (battery back cooling, fitting into the frame, and so on), but the actual drivetrain component is just so simple. That EVs are still expensive is to me a sign that production hasn't ramped up yet. So long as production is limited EVs will remain a luxury product - but I can't imagine that's going to continue for all that much longer with an increasing backlog of used EVs on the market and decreasing battery prices.
Even if there were no improvements to be had in the vehicle itself, improvements in manufacturing processes determine how expensive the product is and thus how competitively priced the vehicle can be. Falling behind on price means falling behind on market share which means falling behind on efficiencies of scale which often means going out of business or at best becoming a niche producer.
Honda and Toyota weren't able to outcompete US manufacturers in the 1980s by offering higher performance vehicles but by delivering similar quality products at lower prices by making use of superior production techniques like Lean and JIT inventory management.
Are you serious? EVs have been the biggest disruption in the auto industry. It has created major corporations who made the attempts of traditional manufacturers seem obsolete.
VW Group and Stellantis totally failed to compete with Chinese manufacturers and were driven out of the Chinese EV market almost entirely. Competition is extremely fierce.
>That EVs are still expensive
Look up what they cost in China.
>So long as production is limited EVs will remain a luxury product
Around 50% of new sales in China. Not "luxury" in any meaningful way.
The issue is that EVs do not differentiate themselves by power train. They differentiate themselves by battery and software.
That is not that much in terms of subsidy for a critical industry. I tried finding the awards for Tesla but the articles lump in government contracts and report the figure to be in tens of billions. I am sure they have received a comparable amount of funding. BYD has just been able to make better use of it I suppose.
No. Five years ago BYD introduced their "blade battery", which is a lithium iron phosphate battery built up of plate-like "blades" in rectangular casings.[1] Wh/L is about the same as lithium ion, Wh/Kg is not as good, and Wh/$ is better. It will survive the "nail test" and does not not go into thermal runaway.
Today, most of BYD's products use this technology. It's been improved to handle higher charging rates. Seems to work fine. Lithium-ion has better Wh/Kg, and it's still used in some high-end cars, mostly Teslas. BYD's approach has captured the low and medium priced markets.
BYD has announced that they plan first shipments of cars with solid state batteries (higher Wh/Kg) in 2027. Price will be high at first, and they will first appear in BYD's high-end cars. Like these.[3] BYD has the Yangwang U8, a big off-road SUV comparable to the Rivian, and the Yangwang U9, a "hypercar". Just to show that they can make them, probably.
For anyone curious, if you made a similarly sized gas-powered pickup with an i4 engine, it would be penalized more than a full-sized pickup for being too fuel inefficient, despite likely getting much better mileage than an F-150 because, since 2011, bigger cars are held to a lesser standard by CAFE[1].
Automotive industry is one of the biggest scams on planet earth. One of my favorite cases recently is how Suzuki Jimny is banned in Europe and US because of emission standards allegedly, so the little Jimny is emitting 146g/km but somehow there is no problem to buy a G-Class that is emitting 358g/km oh and surprise surprise Mercedes are going to release a smaller more affordable G-Class [1].
Manufacturers must hit a level of CO2 emissions on average across their whole fleet. As such, Suzuki is choosing to discontinue the Jimny because of the tougher fleet average targets starting in 2025.
Overall you’re right that it’s a bit of a fix; Mercedes ‘pools’ its emissions with other manufacturers/brands. It currently pools with Smart, but may also pool with Volvo/Polestar? [0]
It’s such an obvious approach to ‘game’ the targets, it’s a wonder the EU didn’t see it coming when they introduced the scheme.
[0] https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/mercedes-benz-intends-to...
The Jimny or similar Suzuki models would not be offered for sale in the U.S. because it’s basically the latest iteration of the Samuri, which died there after Consumer Reports falsely claimed that it was dangerously prone to rollover.
1. Poorer people tend to drive older vehicles, so if you solely encourage higher fuel economies by taxing carbon emissions, then the tax is (at least short-term) regressive.
2. You can work around #1 by applying incentives for manufacturers to make more efficient cars should lead any carbon tax
3. If you just reward companies based on fleet-average fuel economy without regard to vehicle size, then it would be rather bad for US car companies (who employ unionized workers) that historically make larger cars than Asian and European companies.
4. So the first thing done was to have a separate standard for passenger vehicles and light-trucks, but this resulted in minivans and SUVs being made in such a way as to get the light-truck rating
5. We then ended up with the size-based calculation we have today, but the formula is (IMO) overly punitive on small vehicles. Given that the formula was forward looking, it was almost certain to be wrong in one direction or the other, but it hasn't been updated.
This has been a known problem and could be changed if the political will to make common sense policy changes and corrections when needed was anywhere near existing. Unfortunately, we live in a [political] dystopia
> a simple carbon tax would be miles better than the complex morass of regulations we currently have
Doesn't this just punt the morass into the magic variable of one's carbon footprint?
How about this: fleet efficiency standards are stupid, anachronistic and counterproductive. Scrap them. Then, separarately, create a consumer-side rebate based on a vehicle's mileage. (Because a gas tax breaks American brains.)
And what you’re describing is exactly the reason Kei trucks aren’t a thing despite most farmers actually liking them for their utility.
You can’t import them unless they are old because we want to protect the automotive industry. But we can’t build them new either because they don’t meet the safety standards (FMVSS) and are penalized more for being fuel efficient because the standards are stricter for smaller vehicles.
Fine print: The truck in the link is only $20K after government subsidies/rebates. So if the government gives my tax dollars to buyers of this truck, then it will cost $20K.
Even finer print: the $7,500 federal incentive is a tax rebate. If you don't have a $7,500 tax liability, you won't get the full amount. (this also applies if you transfer the credit to the dealer at point of sale). I mean, money is fungible and all, but your particular tax dollars aren't going to people who buy EVs, they are just paying less in taxes.
It's ~28k without them, particularly when considering recent inflation it's an attractive price... inflation corrected it's in the vague ballpark of other small IC trucks when they were still available.
E.g. a early 2000's Nissan frontier base model was $23k in today's money. It was a somewhat better speced (e.g. more hauling capacity) and much better range, but this new car likely has significantly lower operating costs that would easily justify a 5k uplift.
So I think it ought to be perfectly viable without the subsidy, especially so long as the absurd CAFE standards continue to exist giving EV's a monopoly on this truck size.
My favorite thing to come out of CAFE regulations was the Aston Martin Cygnet. It was just a re-badged Toyota iQ whose sole purpose was to raise the average fuel economy within their fleet.
Later they made a one off version for Goodwood that has a V8 stuffed under the hood.
> My favorite thing to come out of CAFE regulations was the Aston Martin Cygnet. It was just a re-badged Toyota iQ whose sole purpose was to raise the average fuel economy within their fleet.
Maybe that's a good thing. It compelled Aston Martin to provide their customers with a fuel-efficient option.
It's also who sedans and compact cars have largely ceased to exist. The vast majority of new vehicles are crossovers or _light trucks_, which aren't held to the same emission/efficiency standards.
Anybody know how it got to this point? It can't be because of regulatory capture, right? I don't think small cars are getting made for the US because of SUV mania and something like a 67 MPG requirement for the Honda Fit based on it's build.
I have a small(*) twenty year old i4 pickup and I regularly get cash offers for it while out and about. There is a lot of demand for the small inexpensive and relatively fuel efficient utility vehicles that the government currently prohibits manufacturing.
(*Ironically, though small it has a considerably longer bed than many currently produced larger and less fuel efficient trucks... I'm mystified by trucks that can't even contain a bike without removing a wheel or hanging one over a gate. Looks like the bed on this EV is a bit short too, but a short bed on a small truck is more excusable than a short bed on a huge truck)
This is extremely refreshing. I think that it would be possible to make something like this in the US for under $15K even. Cars and trucks are so over-engineered and come with tons of low value options intended to drive up the price.
For a case in point, consider that headlights that turn on and off automatically in response to darkness (or rain) are not a standard feature on many cars, yet they include a manual switch that costs more than a photosensor only because of the trim-level upgrades.
Cars could include a slot for a tablet but instead come with overpriced car stereos and infotainment systems that are always light years worse than the most amateurish apps on any mobile app store.
As should be very clear by now after the 2008 US auto industry bailouts and the 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs, the US auto industry is heavily protected and faces virtually no competition, which is why a common sense vehicle like the one in the article sounds revolutionary, though I imagine BYD could deliver something a lot more impressive for $10K if allowed to compete in the US without tariffs.
BYD is also heavily subsidized by the Chinese government.
If the us were not to fight back, the non subsidized industries would die, Chinese would stop subsidizing, rack up the price and competition would be too difficult to start again because of the monopoly on lithium and advance on technology.
It's been done thousands of times with other industries and countries.
Most recently Google, who had been giving Android for free when windows phone were licensed and Samsung tyzen cost money to develop, then forced manufacturer to accept outrageous terms to ship Google play service in their phone when all competition was already dead, is now under scrutiny for antitrust.
China’s approach to funding BYD is meant to replace much of the capital it might raise in freer markets, providing subsidies, tax breaks, and preferential policies to offset limited access to liquid equity and debt markets.
This support, totaling $10-12 billion from 2018-2022 plus in-kind benefits, mirrors the role of U.S. automakers’ $160-220 billion in public market raises and $50-100 billion in private capital, but with less financial risk for BYD due to state backing.
I think what people are missing is that EVs can be dramatically simpler to manufacture than internal combustion vehicles. This leverages manufacturing advantages and so with or without subsidies, China has big advantages due to its advancements in manufacturing tech.
Recall when China started making hoverboards for a fraction of the price of a Segway? Making EVs at scale required largely the same manufacturing pipeline.
It is the foresight of China’s industrial policy, not the amount of subsidy that has created the manufacturing powerhouse China has become.
US attempts are crude (sledgehammer) methods that leave the market far less free with mostly downside for everyone and no industrial policy goals, only domestic incumbents being protected from reality.
To be honest most of those accessories are actually incredibly cheap at manufacturing time and several have a direct impact on safety (e.g. ensuring people don't drive around with lights off). The cost usually comes as companies use them for pricing tiers where they market them as suggested extras to ratchet up profits.
Driving with your lights off at dusk or dark gets you (rightfully) pulled over by law enforcement in CA. It's well-correllated with driving under the influence.
I'm a huge fan of many car safety regulations, but this isn't one.
(Sign me up for car-hiding-in-blind-spot notification lights on side mirrors, though, those are great)
Parents who sit in their idling cars for (fucking) ages while their cars are facing the tennis courts thus blinding the player on the other side of the court for however long it takes them to either turn their car off, drive off, or someone to tell them turn their fucking headlights off.
Personally I feel like cars with headlights in the daytime on days with good visibility can be too noticeable. I find myself giving them too much attention because they stand out more in my visual field.
When the oncoming cars do not have headlights on I find it easier to give them just enough attention to see that they are behaving normally leaving more attention to devote to things other than oncoming cars.
>I think that it would be possible to make something like this in the US for under $15K even.
The closest this comes to is a Dacia spring. Which is not a great car. The dacia could not be made at US labor costs. 15k is an absurd price, Chinese companies can do it because they pay Chinese labor costs and have serious economies of scale. Unless you sell hundreds of thousands of these a year AND pay US workers like Chinese ones, 15k will not happen.
BYD could totally avoid the tariffs by making in the USA (well, they were planning a factory in Mexico, and tariffs on car parts will kill that if something doesn’t change). They already set up a bus factory in SoCal. My guess is that Chinese automakers are still hesitant about introducing their brands to Americans given politics (Volvo and Polestar are Chinese owned but I think the design is still mainly done in Sweden?).
Japanese, Korean, and European brands already make a lot of vehicles to get around tariffs, although it makes sense for some sedans to be made abroad given American lack of interest in them (so economy of scales doesn’t work out), and sedans typically not being tariffed as harshly as trucks.
BYD could totally avoid the tariffs by making in the USA (well, they were planning a factory in Mexico, and tariffs on car parts will kill that if something doesn’t change). They already set up a bus factory in SoCal. My guess is that Chinese automakers are still hesitant about introducing their brands to Americans given politics (Volvo and Polestar are Chinese owned but I think the design is still mainly done in Sweden?).
Yea you nailed it in the end. No way BYD would invest in a factory when the entire government and media are anti-China and could expel you out of the country any moment. The US is not predictable for businesses and investments right now.
Chinese investment in the US is inherently risky. For example TikTok. BYD would be stomping GM and Ford. The next thing you know, they would need to sell their factory.
Wouldn’t they still need to pay tariffs on all the parts they manufacture in china? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the tariffs but it sounds like Chinese companies would have to build completely separate supply chains to keep the US market
>heavily protected and faces virtually no competition
Huh? Out of the top 25 vehicles sold in the US in 2024, 16 of them are non-US automakers. Just because the US is actively blocking China from dumping heavily subsidized vehicles into the north american market, doesn't mean they "face no competition". Kia and Hyundai alone show that it's VERY possible to break into the US market if you have even a little bit of interest playing fair.
The only real way to break into the US market is to have factories in the US. Trucks in particular are protected by the notorious 25% "chicken tax", which has been in place since the 1960s.
I LOVE it! THIS is the kind of truck I'd be looking at to replace my 1998 Ford Ranger.
Here is what could be potential deal-breakers:
- Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
- Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both!
- Comparable hauling and towing capacity to the 1998 Ford Ranger. Those numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I do use the truck as a truck, and I occasionally need the hauling capacity (weight).
- Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
If anyone from Slate is reading this, this is how I'm looking at this truck. FYI, I'll be comparing this to the Ford Maverick.
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!
EDIT: Ughhh, according to the video that another user posted, it looks like there's an app, and yes, "updates" go through it :(
> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both!
Yes to a simple battery system!
> - Comparable hauling and towing capacity to the 1998 Ford Ranger. Those numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I do use the truck as a truck, and I occasionally need the hauling capacity (weight).
Yes!
> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families. You really want a bench seat to at least stick a small child between the driver and passenger. Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.
The article mentions an SUV upgrade kit that will bolt onto the back of the truck. Ugh, OK I guess. Sad that that's the way it will probably have to go.
> Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families.
What you need is not a pickup truck. Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.
> Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.
Rightfully so. Back in the day we did so many things we shouldn't have, and survivorship bias makes us default to thinking it was ok. As kids, we used to go barrelling down dirt roads in the back of pickups or played in the backs of station wagons. There's a reason automobile deaths have gone down.
Battery balancing and conditioning does not need to be fancy, and does not need a fancy screen; a couple of LEDs should suffice.
But I'd like my batteries charged competently, recharged efficiently while braking, worn uniformly, and kept at reasonable temperature. It's not hard to do completely automatically and invisibly; a quality electric bike would have it.
I absolutely agree with you on the NO APP thing. I too just want air conditioning knobs and that's it. A truck from 1980 that is an EV that can haul lumber to build a house.
I wish devices could have web servers and web-based UI rather than thick "apps" that end up rotting when device manufacturers arbitrarily decide that old software won't work anymore (cough, cough-- Apple-- cough, cough).
I know we can't because "security", no end-to-end over the Internet anymore, etc. >sigh<
It seems like we've engineered the networking and software ecosystem to promote disposable "smart" devices. It's almost like somebody profits from it. Hmm...
But you realize this will make cold-weather range suck and on-the-road charging suck, right?
Preheating the battery and cabin on "shore power" is something EV buyers just expect at this point because that can consume 2-3kWh of energy (equivalent to 6-10 miles or 10-16 km). That's almost 10% of Slate's range (see below).
Preheating the battery about 10-15 minutes before you arrive at a supercharger is another expected feature. It can increase charge acceptance rate by over 50% (reduce charge time by 1/3).
The 150 mile range is extremely optimistic given the size of the battery and shape of the truck. With just 5% top and bottom buffers, you'd need to achieve over 3.1 miles/kWh... which is the consumption expected of a small aerodynamic sedan. I would bet real money that highway range (at 75 mph) for the small battery is less than 120 miles from 100% to 0.
>Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!
What car is tied to your phone? A mustang mach-e, for instance, does not require your phone at all. It has a FOB for opening the doors and starting it, you can program the charging times from the in-car screen.
The app is optional, exactly as it should be. This car DESPERATELY is going to need an app when it comes to charging whether you know it or not. With no in-car screen you'll have absolutely no way to control charging which WILL come back to bite you.
>Yes to a simple battery system!
"simple" in this case will add cost. Nearly every EV has the battery as a part of the structural frame of the vehicle for a reason (there are some niche exceptions in China). Nothing is impossible, but I don't see them making the battery easily swappable, while also being structurally sound, and keeping the low price point.
> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
Take her car on those trips then. You wouldn't complain you can't take a Miata camping, why would you complain you can't take a 2-seat pickup? camping? The product isn't trying to do everything. It's trying to be the minimum viable truck and be good at it. And just like the purpose built roadster you give up unrelated stuff, like family hauling.
I think you're assuming a mobile app would mean that the car is dependent on your phone. Just because an app can be connected to your car doesn't mean the app controls your car.
Bench seats are almost certainly not coming back in modern low cost vehicles due to side impact safety regulations. They aren't _illegal_ but its extremely difficult to meet those standards with a bench configuration and ironically probably why a budget pickup is less likely to have them. Cutting those corners by not having a bench at all is an easy way to save money in the design.
The hauling and towing is another one. Unfortunately batteries are much heavier than a combustion engine and take away from the total capacity of the vehicle. It's curb weight is 500lbs more than the 1998 Ford Ranger. Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.
The problem with bench seating is not side impact but accidental steering wheel input during hard cornering. In the typical 10 and 2 hand position having your butt move makes your shoulders move, the shoulders make the hands move, and now you’re understeering. Understeering on a mountain road likely means death, and on other roads a ditch or hitting a phone pole.
I had no idea bench seats had such an impact to side impact safety regulations. Thanks for that insight!
It also makes sense that the total capacity of the vehicle would diminish, but at the same time, and engine isn't weightless (though neither is an electric motor). If I had 1,500 pounds capacity, then I should be good to go.
> Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.
Leaf sprung solid axle is great for doing things on a budget.
But it's probably impossible to put one in a new vehicle because the hiring pool of the automotive industry is too indoctrinated against that sort of stuff at this point.
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
I get that cars have these, but my PHEV (which I don't often charge) lost its app when Ford pulled the plug as 3G was sunsetting and I don't think I'm missing anything. If there's anything wrong with the car, it can show the check engine light (or whatever it's called when there's no engine).
> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning.
Seems like a little early to declare this on a vaporware product? I don't think you need a screen or an app to have reasonable battery conditioning?
Anyway, I would love small trucks to return. I had a 2007 Ranger and I have a 2003 S-10, and there's nothing in the US new vehicle market that fits the small truck niche anymore. CAFE standards can't be met with a small footprint truck, so we only get large footprint trucks. But EV trucks don't have efficiency standards, so maybe we'll see the niche again. (I think you could maybe hit the CAFE standards with a single cab ranger and a hybrid drive train, but I also think automakers prefer to sell luxury trucks rather than base model trucks)
This is why it's so hard for companies to introduce stripped-down or small models of anything: People will tell you how much they want it, but as soon as they see it they realize they actually miss something from the models that are already out there.
It happens with small phones (iPhone mini) to laptops and cars. There are comments throughout this thread claiming that everyone would be buying small sedans if not for CAFE regulations, but we have plenty of small sedans on the market that aren't selling well.
It always comes down to market demand. The big companies have market demand figured out better than many give them credit for, even if it's not exactly the product you want.
I'm grateful they don't make truly stripped down models of cars anymore, because those were always what would end up in the rental car inventory. Every time I'd rent a car, it felt like I was taking a step back in time.
Now all rental cars actually have some reasonable set of features, without you having to pay for any up-sells.
I'd recommend folks watch the video – it's fascinating.
The truck gets OTA updates through your phone and not some LTE modem. It doesn't have one. They moved all car management including OBD-like functionality to the phone, too, which I think is awesome.
This is how I want the interior design philosophy of manual controls to be digitized – with digital control. I'd pay $10k more for physical buttons, though.
This sounds like the feature creep tesla always struggled with.
also, no mobile app? that is a feature.
The appeal of this vehicle is that it IS like your 1998 ranger, not: mobile app = data collection = monetized vehicle = mobile upgrades = basically all the things that are bad with technology.
Honestly, all these "monetized experience" companies forget that (like matt ridley's rational optimist says) with trust, trade is unlimited.
Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog.
Ah, there's the problem. You have violated Pauli's "spouse/dog size exclusion principle". You need to either have a dog that can sleep curled up on the spouse's lap during the trip, or a dog big enough that the spouse can sleep curled up on the dog.
Bench seats also aren't a panacea, I still feel the burn of my dog's stink eye when then girlfriend was prompted to center of bench seat and dog on the side.
> I occasionally need the hauling capacity [of a] 1998 Ford Ranger
Then rent a suitable vehicle for the occasion.
- Your example Ford Ranger[1] seems to have towing capacity of 6,000lbs (~2700kg), and a payload capacity of 1,260lbs (~570kg).
- Compare that to the worst model Toyota Hilux[2], which has a payload of up to 1240kg, and can tow 2500kg. These can be rented for like $65 AUD per day (~$40 USD).
Battery expansion is a user installable option. It might not be as easy to replace the main battery, but the expansion battery will be, and will make it easier to install newer tech down the road, etc.
This truck has 150 miles of range at 100% charge with no weight. I like the idea of the truck, but you won’t be doing “glamping” with it and you probably won’t be using the battery for anything but driving
I also Love the direction of this truck. It would be nice if they installed speakers…two door and a small sub and just left a space in the dash for a standard radio of your choice. Or at the very least cut out the spaces and run wire so installing a proper stereo isn’t a nightmare. I don’t need “infotainment” but I do consider a radio with decent sound to enjoy the ride standard equipment.
I think you are way off on the target demographics. The idea is to have a car that is minimalist in nature, which does mean:
- no app
- no bells
- no whistles
Slate.. I will add one more thing. If you will make it spy on me like all the other new cars now, its a nogo either. I might as well just get an old car from 90s... which amusingly will still work for what I need it to do ( move some stuff around ).
The Maverick apparently has poor build quality but I'm hoping Toyota comes up with a pickup using the same small footprint + bare bones + hybrid drivetrain formula.
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
God, please, no. Why on Gods green earth would I want that? Stop doing this to stuff. It is an abomination. I am sure many others echoed this point but holy crap. No. I am all for technology. But I do not want some tracker in my car. Apps are anathema to my freedom.
Your passion is something that market researches for this company should salivate over, especiall from a curated forum like HN.
Unforuntatley, this company and this project are VC expenditure "throw away projects", made to fail.
No motor vehicle satisfying NHTSA can be made in america for below 20k cost of materiels, nevermind msrp.
This article and the company are pitching that this is "realistic" due to cutting costs of paint, radios. Which...are pennies on the dollar compared to what satifys US road requiremnents for EV; safety, suspension, manufacturer support, parts availability, reparability. Are they skimping there too? will this 2025 electric vehicle have LEAF springs?
20k is the pre-production estimates. When in history has that not balloned especially for car platforms made in USA? What will a made in USA replacement lead acid accessory battery cost? 3k?
Once this goes over 40k (which, is guaranteed. A mazda miata which is as bare bones as it gets, old technology, is still 32k base, and thats made in a cheaper labor market.), the funding will back off, and all the R and D money wasted.
It's a $20k, street-legal, EV modding platform. Sounds like you can mount your own infotainment system. Just an electric motor, battery, and chassis, and the rest is up to you. Isn't this what we've been asking for?
Yea, it's pretty exciting. I'd like to see how much more they could strip out to reduce the price and still have a viable commercial product. I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car. Then again, I haven't bought a car new since the 90s, so I'm probably just an old fart who hasn't grokked what things cost today. I still remember the day when the base-model Corolla started costing more than $9999 and I thought the world was coming to an end.
EDIT: Yep, I'm just old. Another commenter linked to a "10 cheapest new cars" list and there seems to be a price floor of around $20K. No major manufacturer seems capable of making one cheaper!
According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics[1], $9999 in 1995 is equivalent to $21,275.25 today, so it's a pretty spot on price for a barebones car.
The average price of new cars sold in the US last year was nearly $50k. The manufacturers make more money from expensive cars than cheap cars, and people keep buying them, so that's what they sell. Before they canceled the Fit, Honda was selling almost 10 times as many of the larger CR-V each year.
You can find numerous new cars for sale in Mexico for under $15k USD.[0] Even Europe has several new cars under €20k.[1] These are the same manufacturers we have here, but lower cost models that are only sold in lower-income countries.
I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car.
You're not even living in the past. Our 20 year old Scion xB cost us $20K out the door new (granted, that's with most of the paltry list of options added, $15K base). And that was a cheap car at the time, Toyota marketing to "the kids".
The last time $20K was "a high price" for a new car was probably before most HN folk were born.
For those price-comparing, it is $20K after the federal incentives. So, its real cost is around $27K which makes it way more expensive than what the article claims.
That's with federal incentive and likely before they factored in the tariffs. Those 500 parts aren't all coming from US. I wouldn't expect any usable version of it to be below 30k once it's actually available.
> a comprehensive active safety system that includes everything from automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection to automatic high beams
No stereo, but luckily they still found space for a few DNN accelerators that will slam on the brakes randomly when getting false detections. Likely still has a 4G uplink and all the modern car cancer to make sure they can datamine their clients as much as possible and offset the subsidized purchase cost.
Is it? They show speakers mounted in the front as a "soundbar". Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
I just want some power ports and good mounting points, then I can put whatever I want there, and upgrade it. I'd imagine that people will come up with a mountable radio kit, like the DIN format radios of old, but with less restrictions.
> Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
No, because they knew what they were getting into when they bought this truck. And I'm sure there will be a dozen DIY ways to add a more traditional sound system.
I like it. My wife runs a riding academy and we use a Honda Fit the way some people would use a pickup truck: we can fit 10 bales of wood shavings in the back. [1] We’re dreading when it fails because they don’t make the fit anymore and compact hatchbacks seem to be on the way out. Recent experiences have made me a bit of a Buick enthusiast and I can see driving a 2005-ish sedan except that I won’t get those sawdust bales into the trunk. We are also thinking of fitting in EV into the fleet, so far the used Nissan Leaf has been the main contender but this is a pickup truck I could get into.
[1] We were profitable from day one because we didn’t buy a $80,000 pickup on day one the way everybody else does.
The Honda Fit is great. You can probably squeeze an extra decade out if you're willing to swap out the motor or transmission (used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable), and if you're using it heavily then you have the advantage that most cara on the market take less abuse, so you can maybe grab a decade beyond that by picking up somebody else's used Fit when you're done repairing yours.
> used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable
Where are you finding a 100k mile Honda Fit for $3k? Before I bought my current daily driver, Honda Fits were on my list to look out for and in the central NJ area I never saw one in decent condition around that mileage for less than $5k. Even looking now I see people trying to part out theirs for $2k or looking for $4k for a 200k mile one. I messaged someone on FB Marketplace that had a 2013 with 65k miles on it to try and bring down their $11k asking to $8k and just got ignored.
NJ is probably on the higher end of the market but the deviation can't be that big.
I also love this design and I'm happy that someone is doing it. I think it's unlike anything else on the market.
But, they won't necessarily be competing against other new things on the market. My wife also rides horses and we got a $5000 20 year old F250 which is very basic but has been bulletproof, and it can tow. I imagine old, basic trucks, either cheap domestic ones or kei trucks will be what this thing competes against.
I hope it does well. This is the kind of design thinking that the auto industry needs.
Also I'm increasingly convinced that the Honda fit is what peak performance looks like. But when it dies you do have options - maybe a Ford Transit Connect or a Metris.
All micro cargo van providers have stopped building them. The Transit Connect, Metris, Promaster City and NV200 are all now discontinued. The VW Caddy isn't sent to the states.
There are rumors that they will make a cargo van based on the Maverick but they make them in Mexico, and with the tariff situation I'm not sure if they will be going through with that anymore.
All of the perfect compacts and hatchbacks are slowly disappearing, and solid work trucks have been replaced with $60k+ fake trucks that will melt their gaskets with crappy turbos and can't even fit a piece of 2x4 in the back. There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized. Almost nobody is serving them right now.
To be fair, a lot of farms need a big-ass pickup truck because they are always towing horses to go to shows or trailheads. We have 70 beautiful acres and a network of trails my wife built that were inspired by Het Vondelpark in Amsterdam. [1] If everything goes right we trailer in a horse once and never have to trailer it out although some horses don't fit in or have to go to the vet.
The Fit, however, is really genius. It's got the utility of an SUV in the body of a compact. I can't believe Honda's excuse that it wasn't selling -- in my area it is a running gag that if you have a blue Fit somebody will park another blue Fit next to you at the supermarket or that it makes a great getaway car, if somebody catches you doing donuts in their lawn you can say it musta been somebody elese.
I'm also a Honda Fit fan. Technically, it is still made, just not sold in the North American market. It's had a new generation come out since they stopped selling it here, matching the new Civics' style.
The closest Honda offerings are probably the Civic Hatchback (lower roof, but the seats still fold down) and the HR-V, which is basically a Fit on stilts with more weight and slightly less room.
I went with a hatchback Civic Sport Touring to replace my Fit (which has 210K miles on it and is still reliable, though I'm passing it on to someone else) and my girlfriend is about to try the HR-V to replace her (newer) Fit that was just lost in an accident, since she needs more roof height for dog crates.
The Fit is a wonderful car. I'd buy one if I could find one for a decent price, but 40k miles 2020 (last year for them in the US) still runs around $20k at dealers and Carvana! For five grand more, I can get a brand new Corolla Hatchback, which is what I'll likely do, but I'd pick up a Fit without thinking if I could find a good price.
The rear seat legroom is absurdly good for a car that size. It's been our only car for the past 10 years for a family of 2 adults and 2 kids. Zero issues outside of regular maintenance. Bought for $18k new in 2014 (2015 model). Good times.
Would a used Metris cargo work? We have the passenger version and it’s excellent. True 1000kg load rating, and the cargo version can be had extremely cheaply.
We also have our eye on this truck, but with less urgency since our van does everything we could want.
Most small SUVs should be fine though. You switched between wood shavings and hay bales, but I reliably fit 7 hay bales in a 2005 Saturn Vue (wife always managed to get 9 in there), which means that 10 bales of shavings should not be a problem since they're much smaller.
I run a Honda Pilot for this reason. With the seats folded I can haul 8’ lumber or 10’ PVC pipe inside the vehicle, no tie down needed. If I need to tow, I have a 5,000LB tow rating so most anything around the property is possible with a good trailer for a couple thousand extra.
I bought reasonably used, spent about 30k instead of 50k+ for a comparable pickup truck which lacks the ability to haul 7-8 passengers when needed.
Also has the benefit of being one of the most “Made in America” vehicles out there, #3 IIRC.
I use a 2018 Subaru Forester to move stuff like this, with the seats folded flat the cargo space is decent. You can add some cargo boxes on the back trailer hitch as well.
The dream is a Pacifica minivan - they make a hybrid version.
Love my Honda fit - had to replace the transmission at 160k km (in-warranty!) only thing I wish is it had AWD and just a little more clearance for the snow
The Chevy Bolt is very similar shape and size to the fit. Supposedly there is going to be a 2026 model. People have thrown after market tow hitches and towed (small) trailers pretty far even. Check out the BoltEV subreddit.
A Mazda 5 might be a good option in the future. I used to run esports events and could get 20(!) 6’ tables in the back, with some rope to keep the back door down.
how do you haul hoss though? i would imagine you then outsource to professional hauling services? what do you do for vet visits, when it's not a farm call?
Just pay somebody. In a rural area there are a lot of farmers with a big truck and a trailer and it costs less than the monthly payment on a big truck.
As a car audio enthusiast, the biggest obstacle to putting a system into a new high-tech car is bypassing the deeply-embedded infotainment system while retaining decent aesthetics and steering wheel controls. The idea of getting an electric drivetrain and new-car safety with a 90's-style blank canvas for audio is amazing.
I hope that the noise isolation and intended speaker mounting locations are good!
Its a cool car, but forgive me for not getting Lucy-Footballed again by an electric car startup claiming to be able to "change the game" while never actually getting any cars sold.
Yeah, the completely unrealistic timeline, price point, and the fact that the company is only now looking to hire engineers sets off my "fun looking product that will never be available for sale" alarms. I don't think they even have a prototype built yet, everything you see is just a render. They have not even started planning how to start building the factory.
The price point is assuming the R&D is already paid off, the factory is built, the supply lines are optimized, and they're building a million of these things every year. History has shown that you can't start off with a cheap mass produced car as your only product because mass production requires way too much startup capital. The success stories started with hand built extremely expensive cars that were used to pay down R&D costs and keep the company afloat while they built the factory for the mass production model.
About the only way I see this happening is if Bezos goes all in and dumps an outrageous amount of money into getting the production line running knowing that he won't see a return for at least a decade or more, and I don't think he's quite that generous. Also this assumes that cheap lightweight powerful batteries become widely available in the next couple of years.
If they could produce 100,000 of these instantaneously and sell at a 20K price point they'd sell all of them before the end of tomorrow and they'd immediately go out of business because they would be about a billion dollars in the hole, at a minimum.
Absolutely love this. Love brands taking the SLC (simple, lovable, complete: https://longform.asmartbear.com/slc/) approach - minimalism is an absolute delight in a world where everything is crammed with unnecessary/unused feature bloat.
(That said, I'd love a stereo - even if it was just a built in bluetooth speaker/aux-in, which feels like a perfect compromise!)
I like this comment because it both argues for "SLC" design and contains the reason why we don't get it: "Sure this thing looks great if only it had <FEATURE>" where <FEATURE> is different for every buyer.
> A Bluetooth speaker holder that fits under the climate knobs is available, but there is also a soundbar that can be installed in the dashboard storage compartment.
Technically you could zip tie or duct tape an Amazon Basics Bluetooth speaker to just anything even a lawnmower. This looks like just one step above that.
It’s a shame they didn’t add a DIN head unit slot and throw a plastic cover over it, preinstall install speaker wires. Anyone could then DIY a real stereo for less than they are probably selling the Bluetooth speaker/soundbar.
I loved the Saturn plastic doors. The salesdroids were conditioned to call them "polymer panels" and I got corrected when I bought my SL2 back in the day, but I was sold when in their own showroom he kicked the door in, it visibly dented, and then popped itself right back out with no damage to either the paint or the pla, uh, polymer.
That SL2 went from California to Maine, down to Georgia and back to California. It never had any dings and had only a few scratches in the paint. My Civics seem to get dinged if you look at them wrong.
I wish I could have said the same about the Saturn's stickshift, though. That actually fractured when I was in Gilroy. I mean, the shaft literally snapped.
My first car was a Saturn, they performed that same trick in the salesroom as well. They didn't keep that trend up forever though, in the late 2000s my father went to go purchase another Saturn, and he was reeling up to give it a kick before the salesman had to hurriedly tell him they didn't make them like that anymore.
That was probably by the time they had become a glorified Opel rebadge shop. I was probably going to buy another Saturn and I might have settled for an Ion, but the Astra was, to borrow from Dan Neil, "hewn from solid blocks of mediocrity." So now I drive Hondas again.
Yeah, the problem with Saturn was the general level of QA of GM cars of that era. I could make the "check engine" light come on by pressing the accelerator with a small amount of force in my SL2. And it didn't handle very well.
I put down $50 to reserve one. I grew up with an old car that I tinkered with endlessly. Mostly because it was simple enough for me to get my head around! This car reminds me of that time.
I'm hoping that they go with a lot of "off-the-shelf" electronics and mechanical parts. Standards are a blessing.
It feels like they're going with a different business model to traditional car manufacturers. AFAIK most manufacturers make a lot of their money via servicing. I'd love to take a look at what their long-term business strategy is.
Depending on where you live you can almost build certain older cars from new parts. For the UK I believe you can get every single part of an Morris Mini either brand new or at least refurbished. For France you can probably built a Citroen 2CV for parts, including an EV version.
>The rather extreme omission of any kind of media system in the car is jarring, but it, too, has secondary benefits.
>“Seventy percent of repeat warranty claims are based on infotainment currently because there’s so much tech in the car that it’s created a very unstable environment in the vehicle,” Snyder says.
I'm totally cool with them not having an infotainment screen or even a stereo itself. But speaker management might be a pain.
I really hope they decide to either include speakers to which you connect to your own infotainment system or at the very least, have the space or brackets where you can bring your own speakers and install them without cutting.
Having a bluetooth speaker take care of all the sound is just too bulky and cumbersome for those of us who need to live with constant music in the car. Plus, I don't want to leave a $150 bluetooth speaker in my car all the time and encourage break-ins.
There is a video going around showing Slate’s answer is an optional, removable Bluetooth speaker. It looked similar to a JBL. There’s a bracket to mount it on the dash.
I'd rather have my Bluetooth speaker stolen than an installed stereo stolen where they just gut parts of the car and rip things up. But it will be a bigger target since it's easier to resell.
Looks like the dash and door cards are pretty much just flat plas- er, reinforced polymer. Aftermarket stereos and speakers come with mounting brackets and bezels to cover the holes you’ll need to cut.
Very exciting! Electric vehicles have the ability to be very simple, much simpler than an ICE.
Although electric can't be 100% analog, I miss the old days when a car has no software updates, no telemetry, no privacy issues, no mandatory subscription for features.
I don't mind too much if there's still microcontrollers in the car, but I'd really rather they didn't have internet connectivity. The only antenna should be for AM/FM radio.
AM is on its way out with EVs though. there's no reason that a car that has all of that internet connectivity cannot have the same features just without sending the telemetry. upgrades do not need to be OTA, and be upgraded through a USB or even bluetooth from a device. the only reason for it is that there's money to be made from that telemetry.
And TPMS. And key-fob remote lock/unlock. And BTLE for BYO music / calls.
> but I'd really rather they didn't have internet connectivity.
This is the one big thing that has me leaning towards "used, 2015 or older" for my next car.
With an EV, you really do want a way to specify how much power / when should be used for charging though; some "discounted" electric utility plans require being able to shed / schedule big loads on demand, too.
If this vehicle doesn't have any screen, you need to use a phone or similar to configure all this. Yes, schedule data can be done over BTLE, but something big like an OTA update can not be (at least, practically).
There's also a lot of value (for some people) in being able to change/monitor charge capacity from distances further away than what BTLE would support.
If the modem could be toggled and there was a USB port for software updates, I'd be _thrilled_.
While the processing is practically necessarily digital it is possible to build an analog of an analog system - which is to say a digital device that acts in very much the same way that an analog device would. I think many people are underestimating the mini revolution still going on in the quality and price of electronic components.
What do you mean by "analog?" It's not possible to make an "analog" vehicle of any kind due to regulation:
* It would be impossible to pass modern car emissions standards without electronic engine control.
* Backup cameras are mandatory, so you need an electronic pixel display somewhere.
* Lane keeping is required in Europe as of 2022, so that's a suite of sensors and computer-steering as a requirement.
* AEB will be required as of 2029 in the US, so that's a full electronic braking system (some form of pressure accumulator/source, solenoids/valves) and forward looking sensors (radar, lidar, visual, etc.).
I doubt CAN bus will be around that much longer, I know several EV manufacturers are actively phasing it out. Yes, it was revolutionary in it's time but it's a 40 year old standard that doesn't have enough bandwidth for the requirements of modern cars, and it was designed before security was even a thought. It's also unnecessarily complex wiring that adds weight to the car. Even the updated FD standard is only 8 mbps, so it's barely enough for video from a backup camera.
However I wonder about the overlap between people that need a truck and this particular truck. I have only owned trucks when I needed to go out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with a payload, in places with poor access to electricity. If I need to go in bumfuck nowhere without payload then there is no need for the truck, and if I need a payload in the city it's just way way cheaper to have it delivered when you factor in depreciation of even a cheap truck.
Would really love to see something like this with a simple 4 cylinder motor. Like the old s-10 / ranger. Until then the solution I have found is to just tag a trailer on small passenger vehicle, since it is now impossible to find a compact gas truck.
I think that you're looking at extremes exclusively when it comes to your assessment. I live in a "city" in WV and need my truck all the time to get to rural areas, but that doesn't mean that I don't have reasonable access to electricity. Furthermore delivery around my city really isn't affordable or available in a lot of cases.
That being said, I really wish we had a small ICE truck in the USA, or an equivalent to the s-10/ranger. Even the ford maverick is exceptionally tall and it doesn't come with a bed that is big enough to conveniently move building materials.
The maverick bed is only 54" or 4.5ft and older model rangers and S10s can be had with up to a 6ft bed.
I bought a Maverick and it wasn't noticeably larger than my extended bed ranger, I actually feel like it is smaller, especially considering modern A pillars and such are very thick and rigid compared to the death trap of the old ranger.
I have had no issues moving construction materials with the Maverick. I've moved around 12ft boards and stacks of drywall. The only real difference I noticed is I can't lazily hang things off the tailgate, which tailgate latches aren't specced to do anyways.
The Maverick is also kind of dumb because of the choice to do unibody instead of body on frame. I'm sure there's some weight savings or whatever, but at least on a body on frame truck, I can opt to change the bed out even on a short bed truck and add a flatbed when it makes sense. When someone using it like a truck inevitably beer cans the bed, they're going to be really sad that it's not a relatively quick and simple thing to fix (by just going and getting another bed).
Yes. I want this truck...but with a 4 cylinder ice engine. Nothing fancy. No needed stereo or seat warmers or complicated anything. I want a small, simple, and affordable truck with good reliability. Before anyone asks, I can't drive the tiny Japanese trucks in my state. They are cool, but look too small when people are driving what are essentially container ships with wheels these days.
Rural areas tend to not have gas close. 10 miles or so. I know farmers who get gas delivery just because some cars never go to town, just field to field. Charge an ev at home and they avoid a lot of fuel headaches.
I remember in the '70s in central California many farmers did a similar thing, except with propane instead of electricity. They already had large propane tanks and regular propane delivery because they used propane for heating and cooking, so converting a truck to run on propane brought the same kind of convenience that an EV brings today.
In my experience "bumfuck nowhere" has better access to electricity than the city. Every farmer has a welder plugged into a handy accessible high amperage socket.
My experience of rural areas is that few are actual farmers. After all, farming has largely consolidated and become automated. Most country people just don't want a city lifestyle. They might have some of the accoutrements of a farmer and have added lifestyle (enjoyable/fulfilling) overhead and significant attitude (independence & sometimes xenophobia) for themselves, but it's a lifestyle choice. Therefore most don't have a welder (though they probably know someone who has one).
Definitely depends. Most my neighbors in the country have 100 amp service and they are sucking that dry already now that they have heated water and electric HVAC. Many more run solar only since it can cost $30K+ for a half mile extension.
It sounds like the truck is very modular so maybe they’ll offer a generator option for gasoline-powered charging. Otherwise you could throw a normal generator in the bed.
Due to it being electric or due to the specific design? EVs are generally much easier to design for water crossings. I actually drove an electric motorcycle across a river fully submerged, which it wasn't even designed for (had to do a thorough check afterwards but it was completely fine). This is not even remotely possible with the bike I normally ride (Africa Twin).
I'm living in a suburb but been thinking about a pick up
Some uses are, impulse Craigslist and local furniture purchases, outdoor sports equipment, home garden projects.
My sedan is trashed from ocean related stuff I'm always putting in it. I was in a rush the other day, accidently left something wet in the car all day and have a mildew smell now to deal with. Dumb stuff like that seems avoidable.
Keep a desiccant pack in the car, it'll go a long way towards avoiding damp-related issues. The reusable silica gel ones market for gun safes come in a metal can that's easy to handle & recharge in the oven at low temperature. We have muddy gear in/out of our cars constantly and this has worked for us.
By the way, THIS is how we stop inflation. We make new things that cost less and are innovative. People on here are so scared of "deflation" but the reality is, if you don't have deflation your not innovating enough!
I have said this and will reiterate - building an 'afforable' EV is impossible with the current level of technology - by which I mean a vehicle that competes on price with affordable ICE vehicles, and doesn't make compromises that would make it impractical to own as the only car.
There are $20k cars with infotainment, bodypaint and probably a lot more creature comforts than this thing. Also this thing has a 150 mile range (less probably IRL), which is not practical.
Looking at the basic shape, the drag looks horrible, and probably the efficiencys bad too, considering they only manage 150k with an 52kWh battery.
Euros have already tried this, they put out abominable shitboxes where they tried to save money everywhere but the battery and charger, and the result were poverty cars which barely cost less than a Model 3.
Once you spend the money on a 400 mile battery and a fast enough charger to be practical, you're most of the way in terms of BOM to a 300HP electric upmarket road monster. Tesla understood this, and are dominating the market.
BYD also knows this, and there's a reason their C-segment EVs cost more than their D-segment plug-ins, despite the latter having tons of electric range.
Also doesn't cost $20k from the factory, it costs $20k with tax credit.
I'm quite excited about this. Ticks all my boxes for "low" tech, simple, moddable, useful, and cheap. I'm hoping my aging Pontiac Vibe holds out long enough to upgrade to one of these, if they succeed. I put in a preregistration!
My 30-year-old daughter is still driving the Toyota version, the Matrix, also 2008, that we bought in about 2013. She loves the thing. If she didn't have it, I'm sure I would still be driving it.
I find it hilarious that it's a limited-edition M Theory model. It has a badge glued to the dash that says "1926 of 5000." For a Toyota econobox.
The problem is, the kind of person who cares about those things, as valid as they are, buys 0-1 cars per 20 years, and the market is driven (ha ha) by people who buy 2-3 cars every 2 years.
Very true. This truck appeals to me very much. My wife and I have a 2010 Accord and a 2014 CR-V. We could afford newer and/or fancier cars, but we just don't care about those things.
We're thinking of buying a newer car at some point, but between interest rates and, now, tariffs, we're not in any hurry.
> It only seats two yet has a bed big enough to hold a sheet of plywood.
Not really the point of the article, but, does it? This[0] says the bed is 60 inches long and 43 wide, and plywood is 96x48 inches. Is it like, any vehicle fits plywood if you cut it to the size of the truck or stack it on top?
Yeah, it's interesting that their FAQ [1] just says it can fit "full size sheets of plywood" and their specs page [2] also does not list the actual dimensions, only the volume. A 60"x43" bed would technically fit a 96"x48" sheet, but you would have to lean one edge against the side of the bed.
That said, the article you linked appears to list the bed width at the wheel wells. They say the Maverick's bed is 42.6" wide but above the wheel wells it 53" wide or so. You can find plenty of pictures of people hauling plywood with one. I suspect the Slate is similar.
That appears to be the bed width between the wheel wells. I assume it would fit width wise on top of the wheels, which is still in the bed. As to the length, not even most full size trucks are long enough to fit the whole sheet. I guess the main point is that you wouldn't have any trouble getting the sheet of plywood home.
In my old Ranger there were a couple of spots in the bed where you could put a couple of 2x8 beams across it and have a place to stack 4x8 sheets. You did have to lower the tailgate, but they didn't stick out past the end of the lowered tailgate so there was no special requirements (flags etc...) for hauling them. It was very convenient. I would hope this truck has a similar feature, since it's almost free to add and increases the utility greatly.
> Looks like the biggest thing isn’t even mentioned: no telematics control unit to track your behavior.
Is that confirmed? I would buy one *today* if this was known to be true... but I am 80% sure that they don't have any in production; all I see are renders.
There will almost certainly be a WiFi radio (for at home OTA updates) but there will likely be a modem, too, for people that like to remotely manage charge. The modem may be an optional extra and the WiFi traffic is something I can block/inspect as needed.
> There will almost certainly be a WiFi radio (for at home OTA updates) but there will likely be a modem, too, for people that like to remotely manage charge.
The truck will come with a choice of two battery packs: a 57.2 kWh battery pack with rear-wheel drive and a target range of 150 miles and an 84.3 kWh battery pack with a target of 240 miles (386 km).
It is an interesting idea, but there is obviously a lot which can go wrong here.
Can you actually build an EV like that, conforming to all regulations, with significant cost reduction? VW is currently trying to build a 20k EV, which seem extremely difficult in Europe and US labor costs are probably higher. The Dacia EVs (which seem closest in concept to a pickup) suffer from many downsides, to make low prices happen.
Do people actually want less screens or do they just say that?
Is customization a road to profitability? VWs ID.1 concept has a similar idea to lower entry price, by making several upgrades user installable, so they can be bought over time.
This is obviously a US only car and the US is very lacking in EV adoption. Will this sell in significant numbers?
Can you actually make it cheaply? Rivian is notoriously unprofitable and making cheap cars is, far, far harder than making expensive cars.
This should really be mainstream car manufacturing. I can't wait for the day when we have choice of cheap cars, with DiY upgrades and no fucking tracking mechanisms built in and something that works without a phone. I wish them all the success and for the first time in my adult life, I'm excited about technology in cars again!
The issue with this is they claim the cost savings came from not having a screen and other silly features, but that’s not where money is spent.
The real cost savings came a tiny, 150 mile battery. It could easily be <100 miles loaded up after a few years of use, which means there are very few use cases for this truck, and it certainly doesn’t make sense without the tax credit. Cool idea, but there’s no getting around the price of batteries
Right, but it needs to be competitive with ICE cars that travel several hundred miles per tank and fill up in minutes. Literally 0 of my friends have been willing to transition to electric due primarily to range anxiety, and that's for vehicles that achieve over 200 miles per charge. I drive an EV and even I would simply never, ever consider this vehicle based on the range.
There are plenty of use cases in the narrow band that it can operate, but it is a pretty narrow band.
Around town commuter in climate that doesn't need AWD/4WD, like great for shopping, commuting, or for small contractors doing jobs. Two people in the vehicle plus luggage, it will be interesting to see what happens to range.
Love the concept.
Yes, exactly. And a 150 mile battery is still not that tiny in terms of size and weight, and still probably costs more than 20k alone, (unless you source it from China.)
> The simplification goes simpler still. Slate will make just one vehicle, in just one trim, in just one color, with everything from bigger battery packs to SUV upgrade kits added on later.
Makes me wonder if, once "normal" features are added, cost and reliability will be a problem?
In contrast, I could see this really helping the dealer model work because dealers could compete with different customizations.
That being said: At least when it comes to the battery, efficiencies come from a single large battery instead of a modular battery. I suspect they'll need to offer a larger battery at the factory.
Not a truck guy, but I like it. What I like the most is that it's not batshit fucking insane.
I recently visited America after a couple of years away, and spent a couple of weeks in California, driving from SF to LA. The thing which I found the most striking was the sheer insanity of the pickup trucks that were absolutely everywhere. These things were true Idiocracy-class monster trucks, which are clearly lethal to operate in any environment which includes pedestrians. In some cases, my five-year-old's head barely reached the bumper, and my wife's head didn't clear the hood. And these were highly-polished, un-dented behemoths that had clearly never seen a dirt road in their lives. The whole thing is clearly all about aesthetics and identity politics. Absolutely revolting.
(If you haven't visited the US recently, I think it's almost impossible to appreciate how obscene the phenomena is. 10 years ago, trucks were far more restrained, but could still do everything they needed to do. 30 years ago, trucks were fully half the size, but could still carry the same-size loads and do honest work. There's honestly no possible justification for their corpulent growth.)
Anyhow, this thing looks like it can do honest work without killing everyone who crosses its path. I really appreciate that. I hope it starts a trend.
I see this and I don't see it as an every day, driving-on-my-commute style vehicle. As someone who (previously) drove a 2014 honda civic, cheaper cars leave a lot of comfort for longer drives. I can't imagine this barebones vehicle being fun to drive for any extended period of time, or any extended distance, unless you'd spent considerable time customizing it to those needs (at which point, you've probably spent more than buying something off the shelf).
I do see this being great for short utility trips (think running errands, picking something up, etc), and as a utility vehicle (would be nice to be able to have an 8ft bed).
It would be really interesting to me to see a fleet of vehicles like this that are ultra-rentable; think a Bird/Lime scooter, but a utility truck.
> I do see this being great for short utility trips (think running errands, picking something up, etc), and as a utility vehicle (would be nice to be able to have an 8ft bed).
Japan and the rest of the world figured this out decades ago. They're called kei trucks. You can buy pre-2000 imported ones in the US from like $5-15k depending on the miles/condition/year/transmission. I have a 1990 Suzuki Carry that is solely used for trips to Home Depot and picking up random furniture from FB Marketplace that I got for $6k.
If the timing weren't so off (I just bought a compact electric car), then this would have been a real possibility for me: 150 miles is about 1 weeks worth of driving for me, it's usually just me (or occasionally +1), and we have my wife's car for driving the whole family long distances. Of course I'm skeptical that it will come in under $27,500 (implied by the "Under $20k after federal incentives), and if it's much more than that it will start to get squeezed by other options.
Completely agree. It has to end up cheap enough to be a "tool", rather than a "vehicle". If there isn't a clear price-based market segmentation between the two, this will get crushed.
Perfect. Instant buy for me if they can deliver on their promises. No other car in recent memory has spoken to my minimalist frugal engineering mind like this one. Hope my 2000 4runner lasts until the Slate gets delivered to my door!
I'm looking for a vehicle which doesn't track my location, and doesn't have complex software controlling vehicle functions which could kill me. Maybe this is for me.
Not when they're constantly failing. I've a 2020 Honda Civic with a lane assist that has quite a few times tried to spontaneously squeeze me into the wrong lane. I was better off without it.
If this can’t compete head to head (no tariffs or other import restrictions) with BYD and the like, then I don’t know why one would get excited. Feels like an expensive consolation prize with tons of compromises. I want competition.
You can't really compete in a any real sense when the labor price differential is so massive and the companies and supply chains are directly subsidized. The price does not reflect the product, but all its inputs.
I never said that I’d expect that a US automaker would “win”. I want the best car at the cheapest price to be made available. And for that to be done within a level playing field with regards to safety / workforce / environmental / labor regulations. My expectation is that US automakers do not win, even with subsidies. But I do think keeping an industrial base in the US would be worth that compromise.
>"If this can’t compete head to head (no tariffs or other import restrictions) with BYD and the like, then I don’t know why one would get excited."
Would you prefer our roads flooded with cheap Chinese EVs that are the automotive equivalent of Shein hauls? Protectionism has its place in certain areas, and I would say building a thriving domestic EV industry that isn't beholden to a single weirdo is one of them.
I’m pretty sure there are more possible outcomes than “this one truck or cheap, dangerous Chinese EVs.” False choice fallacy.
A lack of import restrictions in no way prevents safety regulations. You could also subsidize the domestic automobile industry without having tariffs, so that we protect our domestic industrial base. These things take no imagination.
The fact that it’s so bare bones (no stereo, etc. unless you put one in) makes me really hope that it doesn’t phone home with a firehose of telemetry like pretty much every other new car. If so, they’ve got my interest
I've seen that it doesn't have the ability to phone home on it's own but that OTA updates and other connectivity relies on you using their optional phone app and your phones internet connection.
That's the killer feature for me, if this actually comes out the after market mods are going to be amazing, having a test bed for creating your own self driving rigs is going to be a complete game changer.
It's so hackable (in a good way) that this platform could foster a whole knew segment of the population getting into EV manufacturing and dramatically increase the talent pool the same way the VW beetle and the Lisa Computer did, hobbyist hackers are the greatest pool for technical founders.
Not to mention replacing the exterior panels with custom displays and other amazing "Art Car" opportunities.
I could imagine this being popular for company and fleet trucks, but I can't imagine it being popular for personal vehicles with the general public. The people I know who drive personal pickup trucks want the absolute biggest one they can find and have zero interest in actually doing any truck activities with it. They drive their Raptors and 2500s to work and to burger king and that's it. If they do any customization, they might take it to a shop and pay them to put a louder muffler on it.
This has much the same design philosophy as the original Land Rover: tough, reliable, simple and maintainable. It was originally developed as the UK answer to the Jeep, but rapidly became the standard utility vehicle for anyone with an outdoor off road job. Especially farmers. Something like two thirds of all Land Rovers ever made are still in use.
>This has much the same design philosophy as the original Land Rover: tough, reliable, simple and maintainable
Where do you get any of this from? Especially EVs are not something you can easily tinker with as the risk of killing yourself is pretty high. In general they are also more integrated and less maintainable and it seems unlikely that this won't be the case here. Maintainability costs money and to make a 20k car happen every cent needs to be saved.
As for reliability it is obviously one of the first things to sacrifice to make low costs happen. We have seen nothing of this car, I doubt the engineering is even far along.
~$30k for a manual-window, slow-charging truck? Will anybody in the US actually want one?
It's a cool concept... looks good to my eye, small trucks are neat, etc. But, I'd want push-button windows, up-to-date charge controller/battery tech, and the normal EV integrated app. Maybe if it was really a $20k truck (they're advertising the price after incentives, many of which are either going away or vanish for higher income earners).
Makes you wonder if they picked that form factor to appeal to a certain market segment that's current underserved?
I love the concept, but at $20.000USD it's to much. My guess is that they'd need to hit 15.000USD for the extend range version. Two minor thing I would chance, as others pointed out: Bench seat, and the second: Just make the holes/mounting options for an after market stereo.
Hopefully this is successful and will push other manufacturers to create similar options. I saw an old Morris parked outside the gym the other day, it took up maybe 2/3 of a parking space, it was perfectly size for my grandparents, it perfectly sized for my needs. I get that the car grows a bit in size, once all the modern safety features are added, but I don't see why that would amount to much more than the size of say an Opel Kadett D or E, or a Volvo for the 1980s.
Anyone? Sure. If this was available 2 months ago, I may have bought one instead of a used Polestar. The Polestar is wildly faster, more luxurious, better range, but I'd have liked a truck, and if I got the $7500 tax credit, I'd have paid about $9k less for this. (Used, 20k miles, $29k.)
Lots of people? Much harder to say. Has to be either "first car" kind of thing for someone young, or "second car" in a family where it's OK to have a 2-seater with limited range be used for commuting/errands. (Or "third car" for people with money to spare.)
There's a 5-seat SUV version, so that expands the market a bit. I'm still not convinced it'll sell without beefing up the specs a bit while maintaining the price.
"third car" for people with money to spare.
Yeah, but the same ~$20k - $30k buys you a heck of a lot more ICE. A new Maverick XLT starts in that range. Or a Lariat trim at $34k. And if this is just a toy, that same money gets you in a new base or very high-spec used Miata.
120kW charging system, so ~30 minute 20-80% (on a relatively small battery), was what I saw. It's not "wall plug" slow, but it's nowhere near state-of-the-art. The small battery and slow(-ish) charging means it's mostly a run-about and less (relatively) suitable for roadtrips. The American market loves to buy on the most intense use, not the average or minimal - giant pickup trucks because somebody might go to Home Depot once a season or tow a small boat at the beginning/end of lake season. Etc.
I'm very positive, however note that when they mention "injection molded polypropylene composite material" - this (i think) is the same material used for Seadoo Spark jetskis. I owned one and had a minor crash, and because this material cannot be repaired, the entire hull needed replacing, it was an insurance write-off. I hope they've thought about how to make this car repairable and not 'disposable' after the first inevitable minor crash. Of course this may not be a fair comparison because jetski hulls are exposed, whereas car chassis' have panels and bumpers.
I would love to have such a simple car, here in the uk.
Something tells me though, that if such a company got successful, it wouldn't be long before the features started creeping back in, to justify an increase in price.
This looks great. But isn't there a long history of new car companies over the last few decades that have an impressive car, take pre-orders and never deliver? Something about production hell?
Slate is financially backed by Bezos [1] and Eric Schmidt [2] so it's not like they're going to run out of money unless they choose to do so. And it's staffed by a bunch of Detroit automotive engineers, so it's not like they're going to be surprised to learn that building and selling automobiles is harder than launching a CRUD app or SAAS.
I do expect a steep price jump when they realize that all this customization (especially post-purchase) makes crash testing really difficult and expensive, $20k is not going to happen but hopefully it will be under $30k MSRP and under $40k with typical options, at least targeting a different market than Rivian.
Why would post-purchase customization be crash-tested at all? It’s not currently. If I buy an F-150 and jack it up, it’s not Ford’s responsibility to crash-test my work. Even if I use genuine Ford parts I buy from Ford.
Being backed by Bezos and the appearance of infinite funding isn't necessarily a good thing. You need someone at the helm that is driven and in control. Don't know who's running the company or if they have the proper mentality to get through production issues, but it's certainly not Bezos.
Either way, I'm rooting for their success. The low end car market is pretty much non-existent. I've heard people blame the cash for clunkers program that got rid of a ton of low end supply in 2009, but haven't looked into it too much.
This is too bad. I'm not buying anything from people who showed up January 20th. It hasn't been difficult. And luckily there is plenty of competition in the electric car space.
If they get somebody else at the helm (not Elon), I'll root for them like crazy.
Damn, this might finally get me to retire my 83 Mazda b2200. I've king thought this size trick is about perfect, and the old Perkins engine in my truck is getting really tired. Mostly commenting so I have this in my history to refer to later
Does this strategy even make sense? You can charge $20k for a car. Why wouldn’t you add options that cost you nearly nothing but some amount of buyers will opt in for a meaningful revenue increase.
Charge $1k for paint. Even if 95% of people don’t do that, 5% of orders just increased their revenue by 5%. Paint doesn’t take engineering time.. just spend $500 and let some other company do it. This is why trims exist, having a single low price point means people who want to spend more either produce lower revenue than possible, or are disappointed.
IMO this one trim, one price is almost certainly a prelaunch marketing gimmick as from a business perspective there is literally no benefit.
DIY wrap kit I guess is a form of options, but again seems like a missed revenue opportunity. Some of your market wants DIY customization, but realistically some anmount of (or almost every) consumer would rather pay +$1000 for a nice colored than $400 for a wrap kit.
I think it better if they just give options for easy modding. You take it to a garage for a mechanic to spray it, or to hollow out radio nook, or add a phone charger outlet.
I wonder if I could write my own software for this car? Like auto-sensing rain-wipers with an Arduino or something, and if the CAN BUS protocol isn't super hard to use. This would be a car hacking dream.
At $20k it is actually comparable in cost to a GEM el Xd pickup [1] which can only go up to 35 mph, has 78 mile range, and costs $18k [2]. Totally different class of vehicle, of course.
I do wish we'd all just call this a $27.5K USD truck. If it ends up allowing some people to get a tax credit, awesome. But that's not the price they are targeting for selling this truck. And that tax credit is far from a guarantee come late 2026 / early 2027.
(That's before any "later adjustments" to the price, not to mention the effects of uncertain tariff policy.)
This is amazing. I hope it succeeds. If I had any use for a truck I'd be lining up to buy one. They make one in a compact sedan or hatchback form factor and I am in. Heck, even better a subcompact.
I compared the dimensions of the Slate with my '06 Pontiac Vibe hatchback, and it's only a few inches longer. I suspect the Slate + Fastback kit will be pretty close to a hatchback in size and function.
This is amazing. More car manufacturers should get out of the infotainment business. tablet tethered to a cellphone for reception, and a connection to OBD2 for car data is all you need and allows for easy upgrades/replacements when things fail.
I do think they should keep in mind that people will want to do this and at least design the dash to easily accept a tablet mount (vesa standard), amp mount (plug and play Pyle 120v?), speaker wire, and speakers (6x9 or 6.5”). That’s an easy hour install if everything is standardized, accessible, and doesn’t require drilling.
Not sure if the article covers it (I read Ars Technica's, not Verge) but the Slate site shows that they do have support for tablets, bluetooth speaker mounts, 3-seat back row, etc.)
While speaker wiring might be nice... I sense that's less likely to be readily supported. Mounts + wireless + USB port for charging is probably the limit there.
Of course, used truck buyers tend to be happy to run some wiring for things like CB, radar, extra lighting, etc. Doesn't matter if the wiring is showing!
150 mile range makes it close to useless. As soon as you take it on a highway, the range will likely drop by half. Which means you can only do a round trip of 37 miles before you have to charge.
Even a very aerodynamic Model 3 loses half of range at highway speeds.
The range figure is determined by a test regulated by the EPA and actually does account for a variety of driving conditions, specifically including highway driving. The graphic you linked to actually shows that the advertised range is very close to the range at all highway speeds.
It really depends on how they define their mileage rating. If it is an inflated number like some EV manufacturers, then yeah. If it is a conservative rating, then it's a useful amount of range for an "in town" vehicle.
It's not about "inflating" it. It's more that the energy needed to move your car a certain distance is quadratically related to the speed, due to aerodynamic drag.
Efficient vehicles spend less energy on other stuff besides moving the car (e.g. by having heat pumps, induction motors that can be turned off without any drag, etc), so tests conducted at a lower speed will appear to have a better range than tests at a higher speed. Meanwhile, less efficient vehicles that waste energy at low speeds will appear to have more similar range at both low and high speeds.
The article does talk of it being a relatively simple proposition to embiggen the range with an bigger battery kit if that helps. But yeah, it's not a ton of range.
EVs dont lose 50% of their range at highway speeds. Even if they did, I'm not sure why you think you could only go 37 miles between charges (I think you meant 75 mi?).
> "and the only way to listen to music while driving is if you bring along your phone and a Bluetooth speaker"
Why not make a physical connection (power/network) and define a form factor for entertainment system with or without screen and speakers and let other companies design something to fit the space available. I don't understand why no one does this instead of selling cars full of crappy software that can't be upgraded.
This makes a lot of sense for a run around town and short commute car. It specializes for that use case perfectly. I can see a world where families have one decent gas/hybrid car and one cheap EV. That set up could save a lot of gas money over time while meeting the needs of the household.
Also, when is the last time an economy car/truck looked this good? The slate is beautiful.
I think it has a real shot if it arrives as promised, but we know how these things go.
I'm wondering why the hood is so big, given that it doesn't need to contain an engine? Is that where the batteries are located? Or is it just mostly empty space in the form of a frunk serving as a crumple zone to meet crash testing standards? I hope it's not just a strictly aesthetic thing, because you could reduce that distance and end up with an even more practical truck.
I have dreamt of some entity trying to do this. A completely stripped down vehicle sold for a (hopefully) sustainable profit. I wish them as well as possible, and they will have my interest in purchasing one.
If I undersand the article right, it sounds like they make
it with no features but that you add yourself afterwards
"We moved all the complicated parts outside the factory"
What does that really mean?
You can paint it yourself, well ok, people may like that.
Making it easy to service is great.
If I want electric windows is that adaptable?
(It may come with electric windows)
When I want to put in a stereo
A navigation system?
AC? (Might come with it)
It would be cool if the car was a abit "framework" so it has
an open well thought out way to add and integrate features
a person may want.
THe compnay and 3rd parties could offer up all sorts of cool stuff.
I like the idea, but I think a hybrid version would be the better first product. A 150 mile range is going to limit the people who will purchase this truck.
An EV that's designed to be user-serviceable, has modular upgrades, and isn't full of surveillance technology? This checks all the boxes for me. Can't wait to play with it.
I LOVE this idea. I’ve specifically been looking to buy a tiny truck or van, “can hold sheets of plywood” being a major criteria. I love the idea of that being a simple electric I can charge at home. Beautiful!
I love this. We have a Fiat 500 EV that we got for $8k used that’s a fantastic city / small hauling car, and this beats it in many qualities in a way that’s still minimalist, reasonably affordable, and low maintenance (if as promised). We also have a 1986 4WD VW camper van which gets the big jobs done but is still manageable in the city. This truck is like the DIY marriage of the two.
One advantage they might have is that there isn't much on the market for low priced pickup trucks in general. I'd probably rather have a gas pickup than an electric but I don't want to pay the inflated prices that go along with them.
Agreed. The U.S. market had a very long run of both large expensive and small cheap pickup trucks, and people consistently have bought the big luxury pickups. It is why all the small trucks were axed to begin with. Even back in their prime, I saw many more F-150s than Rangers. Its an easy up-sell as I'm sure any car salesman will say: well for only a few more thousand you get into a full-size, and from there, add some options and its over.
>Even back in their prime, I saw many more F-150s than Rangers.
I think you're misremembering. The streets were flooded with Rangers and S10s back in the day. Full sized pickups have been the most popular class of vehicle for decades but that number is grossly inflated by the amount that are bought as fleet vehicles or work vehicles.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore this truck. But I feel the same way about this truck that I do about the Framework Laptop (having owned one)—cool idea, cool product, but will Slate be around in 5 years to keep making parts and offering support for it?
This is a fair concern, I imagine. If it is highly user serviceable, maybe that isn't a concern.
That said, I think you raise a bigger issue - I'd like to see MORE things like Framework, Fairphone or Slate - user serviceable, customizable - maybe low initial cost.
To me, this feels futuristic, exciting, optimistic and positive.. we need more like this, so how can we make these kinds of businesses more likely to succeed, resilient, etc?
This is really useful. It's an upgraded kei truck. All the modern safety features - airbags, ABS, rear view camera, anti-collision braking. None of the frills - infotainment, connectivity, etc.
I think one of the most amazing things about this new company is that its run by women who held prominent roles in the Big 3. Its an intriguing vehicle but a Ford Maverick pickup offers far more value for the same price.
Sad to say but if the thing was made in Mexico and was priced at $15,000 it would be a huge hit. By the time you accounted for the $7500 federal tax credit it would be priced at around a quarter the price of a gas 4 cylinder powered pickup. An entire industry of add-ons and wraps would spring up around it.
I love this concept and will probably buy one for that reason alone. 150 miles is too low though, I already struggle with the 180 I get out of my current electric car. Really cool to see more ideas in this space, congrats to the founders getting this far!
Good trend. Other companies should follow suit. Simplify the car enough. And make it cheap. Sometimes I feel like Chevys are just like this. Real cheap machines. Or those white ford vans made for industrial use.
I'm really intrigued to see how this does. Kudos to Slate for trying something new and building it in Detroit at a great price point.
I see a ton of discussion on social media from people who want to buy simpler vehicles with less features at a better price point (e.g. the Japanese Kei trucks). I'm not convinced Americans will actually buy such a vehicle because we are used to our modern conveniences in new vehicles. You can even see that trend in this thread where people are asking for more features, or things that were phased out decades ago due to safety (e.g. bench seats). Perhaps Slate has figured that out with their options packaging? I'm rooting for them regardless.
> I'm not convinced Americans will actually buy such a vehicle because we are used to our modern conveniences
My town is FULL of workers doing hauling, painting, gardening, construction, etc., and they're all driving old worn rusting pickups that barely seem held together. There's definitely a market for minimal trucks designed to just get the job done without the "modern conveniences".
Looks up my alley. I already went backwards and got a low mileage 2013 specifically to shed all the technology crap. I’d much rather have something newer and nicer
Looks like a concept that will never actually reach the market.
And if it does and I'm completely wrong, this concept is probably doomed anyways, as it is swinging far too far to the other side away from fancy tech and right into uselessly bare. I'm sure a few people are excited by this, but realistically it will have a tiny real market. Nearly no one wants manual windows and leaving them out isn't saving huge amount of money.
Make it comparable to a decent conventional vehicle, but electric, and you may do well. This though is more useless and non-functional than my old Jeep, which has a trip computer and bluetooth as the biggest "tech features".
It seems performative. They remove a bunch of stuff nobody ever complained about, like paint or radio. Meanwhile it still has an app and it's still electric with pitiful range. The goal isn't to actually fix the car market, but provide a sort of self-flagellation experience so people can feel good about suffering with no radio, no ac, no auto windows... And I doubt they will reach that goal, sounds more like some kind of investor scam. With all these controversial design decisions they can brag to investors it's "making waves on popular platforms like hn".
Man this is so awesome. I do really think they need to consider the fold down bed sides like the kei trucks have.
The bed being plastic doesn’t give me much confidence either. The payload may be similar to a mini truck, but a mini truck’s metal bed will take a significant beating over plastic.
This is very, very close to what I want, but I worry that those two things may prevent me from actually pulling the trigger. While all of the modular features are cool and neat, I don’t really consider them very useful for what I would actually use this truck for.
The purpose of this seems to be a fleet or Personal utility truck, but I still feel like I would be leaning towards a used old Ford Ranger or similar.
Just about anyone who doesn't mind the slight inconvenience and has space for a trailer... would be better off with a trailer than a truck.
But this could easily handle a mild commute and nearby errand running. Most "truck" stuff is like buying 5 bags of mulch from the Home Depot that's 10 minutes away. This will handle that perfectly well.
But yes, 20-80% battery usage makes the base model daily range 90 miles, unladen.
You could get a used non-truck EV, add a tow hitch and you'd be able to move more weight in the trunk and in the trailer than this thing can.
Of course, it's a truck, so it can move light + bulky stuff, like appliances and furniture.
Personally, I'd want to pay another $5-10K and get one that can also handle heavy loads. This, but for $30K ($37.5K pre incentives) with no truck-related caveats would be amazing. I'm guessing it wouldn't cost $10K for them to upgrade the suspension + drivetrain.
> Unlike most vehicles sold in the United States, the Slate Truck is not expected to have any Internet connectivity
Well that's certainly a sentence. It wasn't true just 20 years ago. It makes me wonder about the world we've grown into with deeply intertwined apps becoming not only the norm but expected.
The idea is there but I'm wondering about the execution. Here's hoping it takes off.
If this thing really comes out in a couple years by the time it's ready for mass production to hit consumer hands there will probably be 2 or 3 self driving kits designed for it. The mods for this thing would be amazing.
A buddy of mine who creates shaped interactive art panels with oleds for disney and other groups interactive events texted me about this, installing video panels on this is going to be a breeze.
I'm more excited about this as a platform than even as a car, this is going to be like browser JS, the Lisa and VW Bug for creating an EV tech skill pipeline.
What a gross looking vehicle, and at that price? I just want the old ranger design. I've been using a 2006 ranger for quite a while and it's served me well, I'd like to upgrade it to a ranger XL for that little extra cab room for crap, along with 4WD and power windows and AC, but people rightfully guard them and when they do show up at dealerships they're typically pretty expensive too.
I've thought about importing a Kei, but I don't think it's for me. When I think "American kei truck" I at least think something in the ballpark range cost of a Kei, which is quite a bit less, at least half as expensive for the best options like 4WD, even less if you can compromise. It also has charm unlike this. The range is just ridiculous, too. My little ranger isn't exactly great, I don't push it much more than 300 miles on a tank, but having half that (new! let alone after a few years) is such a deal breaker. Last time I took my truck camping it was around 60 miles each way, and that was a nearby spot.
Remember when cybertruck was supposed to be cheap minimalistic truck? No paint, spartan interior, simple materials and straight shapes. $39k price tag. Yeah…
It's embarrassing when people buy a truck and don't use it for work, towing or payload. So you bought a fuel-inefficient non-aerodynamic vehicle whose storage area is open to the air and unusable for passengers, and it's not big enough to carry or tow large items? What a smart choice.
However, with the SUV package and lift kit, this is actually useful. It's basically the same size (and payload and towing capacity) of the 2nd gen Scion xB. A boxy, roomy, small, cheap car. Absolutely useful and great. (Unlike a tiny truck.)
Kind of a big light phone [0]. China has had these for a bit, I’d guess there’s a decent market for them, though hesitant to buy the first production model of any car, given how dependent we seem to be on warranties and market forces to ensure manufacturing quality and the poor survival rates for new car companies. Interested in v2 for sure.
Will this be street legal?
Will it have airbags?
If most of the car in injected molded plastics, what
happens when it gets int a crash with a regular car?
This'll seem a like an odd question given the obvious bare-bones approach, but still: Is or could be instrumented for self-driving? I can't imagine us humans driving forever. Otherwise this looks like a dream truck to me. Easy DIY repair, electric, fewer distractions, meant for work not showing off.
I was thinking; hey, these remind me of Bollingers, which is the only electric vehicle I'm interested in, not for its features, but for the absence of them.
This is cool, but you can buy a 3 year old used model 3 right now for close to $25k that has 300+ mile range. The model 3 also has, wait for it, a/c and speakers…
Love this! Would like to see a (manual) split rear window- super helpful for hauling longer things in a smaller truck. I put 10' conduit in my Ridgeline all the time.
> Rather than relying on a built-in infotainment system, you'll use your phone plugged into a USB outlet or a dedicated tablet inside the cabin for your entertainment and navigation needs.
How is a "dedicated tablet" different than an infotainment system, other than not having vehicle telematics and controls? Also, a regular tablet UX would be dangerous while driving, and typically they don't have their own mobile data connections.
Highly technical people tend to come in two varieties when it comes to electronics in their personal life:
1. Absolutely nothing smart that's not under their direct (or highly configurable) control.
2. Sure just take all my data I don't care. I'll pay subscriptions fees too.
Modern cars mostly do #2... to the point we potentially faced a subscription being required to enable seat warmers [0]. There's basically no cars on the market that do #1 anymore.
And with #2, you're bound by what the vehicle manufacturer decides. They are ending up like forced cable boxes - minimum viable product quality. They can be slow to change pages/views and finicky in touch responses... which I think are actually more dangerous... but this is our only option if this is the car we pick... and almost no one decides on a car for it's infotainment, so it's not a feature that gets much love or attention.
Additionally, technology moves too fast. My first car had a tape deck. The next one had a CD Player.. then I had to get an mp3-player-to-radio dongle, then I replaced my infotainment system with a bluetooth supporting one... and so on.. Even Android Auto (early versions) integrated directly into the infotainment system and needed potentially proprietary cables (USB-to-proprietary connector), and the systems did not look designed to be upgraded/replaced.
This model here allows you to upgrade your infotainment system every time you upgrade your phone (or dedicated tablet)... or simply by changing apps.
Also, Android Auto has mostly solved that UX issue (It's the same UX on a tablet as on an equivalent built-in infotainment system).. Though iPads probably (?) don't have a similar feature.
So I think the 'bring your own infotainment' idea is awesome.
It's not clear what they mean by "dedicated tablet". If it's an integrated add-on provided by the company that just does Android-Auto/CarPlay, then that seems OK. If it's just a holster for a tablet, not so much.
> It's exactly what I think a lot of techies want.
> Highly technical people tend to come in two varieties when it comes to electronics in their personal life:
I get it, I'm one of them. But using a tablet while driving is fundamentally dangerous to other people on the road, drivers or pedestrians. Android Auto and CarPlay are barely constrained enough to allow for distraction free driving.
I've lost hope that we're going back to days of people actually paying attention to the task of driving (even I take phone calls and play media while driving), but normalizing distraction by encouraging use of a tablet or phone seems like a public safety mistake, even if it appeals to the techie crowd.
Not being built-in is significant. Infotainment systems tend to get outdated, and are also a common point of failure that can be expensive to fix, so not having the tablet hardwired in allows for people to choose their own setup and is also more future-proof.
> Infotainment systems tend to get outdated, and are also a common point of failure that can be expensive to fix
Android Auto and CarPlay solve that problem for navigation/communication/entertainment. The automakers aren't going to provide an open API to the vehicle control systems, for both competitive and safety reasons.
What would be nice is the old fashioned DIN interface, where you could install an aftermarket AA/CarPlay unit like this:
Also, these days AA can connect to the car's systems to do range estimations for its route suggestions and suggest charging on the routes. I'd hope whatever connectivity they do here includes sharing that data with the device in the cabin.
i hate trucks because they're big and trash up my neighborhood with their noise and size, just don't belong in the city. but since some neighbors have started driving electric (rivian, cybertruck), I tolerate them so so so much more. it's amazing how just making them electric has changed (and I hope, continues to change) the gestalt of my block.
People say they, and many other Americans, want a cheap and simple truck. They're lying.
I know you don't believe me but it's true.
Automotive sales numbers are public information. Every single time a VIN is stamped into some metal, that record is public. The gradual decline in the sale of small, simple, cheap trucks is well documented.
People want full-sized trucks.
People say they love manual transmissions, too. They walk right past the manual Tacomas and Jeeps and buy an automatic.
People say they love station wagons. Then they go to the Volvo dealership and walk right past the V60 and buy an XC60.
People say they want a cheap car. Then they walk right past the base model Corolla and throw down $50k on a Rav4 Limited.
Only enthusiasts and weirdos like me will buy one of these.
A company whose audience is enthusiasts and weirdos must charge a shit-ton to stay in business. $20k isn't a shit-ton and if their strategy is to make up the difference on upgrades, they're not selling cheap trucks anymore.
I know what Americans, in aggregate, want. They want a big-ass SUV with heated and cooled seats with a screen that stretches across the entire god damned dash, 360 degree cameras, RGB mood lighting, 47 speakers, and second-row captain's chairs that make getting to the third row easy.
I own 3 cars, a Fiat 124 (MANUAL) Spider, a Volvo V70, and an Alfa Romeo Giulia.
But I am a weirdo, and because of this those companies are about to go extinct (in the US, at least).
I'm the guy that ran OS/2 and BeOS until the bitter end. I prefer writing software in Ada. I had a Saab.
I am literally and actually a subject matter expert on this shit.
I know what normal people want, and this ain't it. I know this because I want it.
are you sure that people want "trucks" the size of tanks or is it that the US is now in an arms race focused on vehicle size? Could it be that reasonably sized vehicles are just not available?
The auto companies' argument about what consumers "want" is mostly nonsense.
It’s like if you could buy an old Nokia for $200, or a new Android smartphone for $160. The old Nokia certainly has nostalgic qualities and some concrete practical benefits like all-week battery life, but overall it’s not a great deal.
And this is why you have >100% tariffs on Chinese cars — American manufacturers know they can’t compete.
Those cars are priced for the budgets of domestic Chinese consumers. BYD exports to Europe are priced similarly to car models sold there. For the same reason, this Slate truck is very unlikely to cost just $20k when it reaches the mass production stage.
Which is its ultimate downfall, unfortunately. It being an actual pickup truck means that for all practical purposes you will also need a car, with all the additional headaches of owning more wheels to go along with it, and at its price point plus the price of a car you may as well buy one car with some truck-like features (i.e. the pretend pickup trucks that have become so popular).
The question is... how many farmers / ranchers need these pickups? There seems to be like an absolutely crazy competition for vehicles for a very narrow group of people.
In a 2-door vehicle, you can just lean over and roll up the window and toggle the lock on the other door. If you've ever had an old car then you'll know the annoyance of a broken electrical motor.
This is a plus, in my book. The fewer crappy electrical gizmos the better. I had the same question, hope the locks are manual with no keyless entry or hackable key fob.
Why the downvotes on this comment? If you're not sufficiently curmudgeonly to sympathize with this sentiment, there's lots of other cars for you. I'm sure you can find a subaru outback with a built in purple hair dyer or whatever you want.
Power window "regulators" (the unit that holds and raises/lowers the window) are usually similar in price and weight to cranked manual window assemblies, and can be cheaper. A small motor is not at all expensive and is a less specialized item than a window crank handle and gear unit.
What could save money is not needing to run any wiring whatsoever into the door - if the doors can be made with no speakers, lighting, crash sensors, switches, power locks, or power windows, then the assembly becomes significantly simpler and therefore cheaper since there's no wiring harness to fish (usually a manual production step), no holes and grommets, etc.
But if power windows are going to be an option, I'm not sure how this plays out. Do the power windows come with a wiring harness that requires the user disassemble the interior and fish the wiring? If it comes pre-wired, then the choice for manual windows is actually quite strange and possibly more expensive.
That's why I'm wondering if locks are manual as well. If there's no wiring at all going into the doors then presumably the doors will be cheap. But if they have power going in for locks already, power windows shouldn't be a costly addon.
Lots of trucks are still for work, but they have gotten so expensive more people than ever are considering them as luxury purchases.
Electric windows have been a luxury item for generations.
Traditionally, with an F-150, they were just much slower, prone to failure and expensive to replace.
Especially if you often go in & out from a gated area where you have to roll your window down every time and use your pass or talk to the guard :\
Or roll them all down whenever it has been parked in the hot sun, to quickly let out the overheated air before the air conditioner can become very effective. If you have A/C, or even use it at all :)
Window motors may not last much longer than a set of tires then, and cost as much to replace, often without warning. You're supposed to be able to afford it anyway.
However in the late 1990's the manual knob was moved to a stupid place, and it became impossible to lower the window in one quick second any more.
I can only imagine that the automotive engineers were constantly being bathed in the luxury of their environment and never even put enough test vehicles having no options through any kind of ergonomic comparison.
For the longest time these kind of things were built to provide an extreme amount of comfort for someone having a similar stature to Henry Ford. Almost lasted the entire 20th century before there was such great discontinuity.
Engineers probably didn't test drive any having manual seat adjustment, on long trips either. Otherwise they would have done better than to have an adjustment bar blocking the entire area under the driver's seat in such a way that about 25% of the footroom was lost, which was formerly available as you occasionally adjust your posture for endurance.
It was like expensive sportscar people started designing trucks. You don't sit upright in a sports car so the space is not wasted there. No more twin I-beam front suspension either, you didn't really want a truck that tough any more in the 21st century did you?
They didn't know any better. At least they once did.
And who doesn't like luxury?
Automatic locks is another one, once very seldom seen except in things like Cadillacs. That's why people envied them so much for decades, and when they finally came within reach of the mainstream they flew off the shelf.
As far as I can tell, it's "$20K" the same way Cybertruck was "$39K". It's not available for purchase yet, and when it is, it'll be twice as much, because Bezos also likes money.
No mention of crash testing or crash-worthiness/safety. Airbags? ABS braking? Collision avoidance (brakes engage based on distance and speed to cars or objects ahead), etc.
Before the hounds say "it is refreshing..." remember that lots of safety features are there because so many people died before they were instituted.
How safe is this plastic body from lateral impact by an F150 or SUV?
One of the reasons for which I do not like or buy old vehicles is the lack of safety features that are common today. All it takes is to land a loved one in the hospital (or worse) to quickly regret the choice to buy a cheap car or an old unsafe car. Years ago my father was t-boned by a full size SUV at a neighborhood intersection, launching his car diagonally across the intersection and onto the front yard of the corner house...through a couple of trees. He walked away from that one because the safety engineering of the vehicle he was driving save his life.
Another note: To me, while this is interesting, it is also a sad commentary on the state of manufacturing in the US. The ONLY WAY to make a $20K car in the US is to strip it down to bare metal...err...not even use metal...or paint...or electronics...or comfortable seats...and have HALF the range of other EV's...and even take out the speakers, etc. And then, you sell not having all those things as a FEATURE! Yup. Brilliant. What's the least we can do to build a car and get away with it?
My prediction is that this thing will die a pretty rapid death or they will have to pivot into making real cars for this market. There's a reason nearly three million conventional trucks were sold in the US last year. Plastic bodies, 150 mile range and barren interiors did not fit the description of a single one of them.
A mandatory part of today’s safety features is a digital rear-view camera. Typically, this view pops up on a modern car’s central infotainment screen, but the Slate doesn’t have one of those. It makes do with just a small display behind the steering wheel as a gauge cluster, which is where that rearview camera will feed.
If Slate succeeds, it would be the total inversion of Tesla's original masterplan strategy of starting with a supercar and then slowly working their way down the value chain. And what's really astonishing is that, not only is this the cheapest electric car in the country, it's one of the cheapest new cars in the country, period.
It's a very different market today than when Tesla started. Tesla's strategy of starting at the high end was necessary to build electric cars from scratch. New competitors can start with existing supply chains and a base of engineering expertise.
I do think Tesla has lost sight of their original plan, though. They should have kept going through one more generation of significant cost reduction/increased volume after Model 3/Y. They are intentionally leaving this part of the market to competitors as they focus on self driving, and I think it's a mistake that will cost them in the near term.
I think Tesla looked at what is selling in the U.S. market and pivoted to the Cybertruck. Small, cheap sedans and wagons just don’t sell that well at retail anymore—in part because people don’t like them, in part because of safety concerns, and in part because there is a huge backlog of cheap used vehicles.
Slate’s plan is only possible because they have the benefit of almost 2 decades of advancements (read incredible price drop) in batteries and EV related components.
Exact same car 2 decades ago would have cost a hell of a lot more. At which point the lack of bells and whistles would have been a huge problem.
I had an old Nissan XE truck for a few years. I loved it, the thing was simplicity itself.
I assume there's still a lot of vaporware here, but if they can make it reliable and avoid the teething issues of new cars, I'd probably impulse-purchase one. I would also love to see options for AWD and a full-length bed.
"strong safety standards" are what got us to the point of 5000lb pickup trucks and A-pillars that are so wide they arguably kill more people (predominantly pedestrians & cyclists) than their constituent airbags save.
It is cartoon villain tier to compromise the visual range of the driver at the safety expense of everyone outside the vehicle, who is not shielded by 2 tons of mass.
Much of what is wrong with automobiles is a severe inability to think in higher order terms.
The $20K is after incentives, so it's actually $27,500. That still compares favorably to Ford's closest offering, the F-150 PRO, which is $54,999 (pre incentives):
The Ford comes standard with the same range as the upgraded Slate, though. The slate can tow 1000lbs, and hold 1,433 lbs, vs the Ford's standard 5000 / 2235, respectively (you can upgrade the range and towing capacity on the ford):
Not including a bluetooth capable am/fm radio / speakerphone on a fleet vehicle seems dumb. This cut what, $100?
I can easily see Ford cutting $10K off the cost of the Pro. It looks like it has power windows, and it definitely has an infotainment system. Also, the two row cab adds lots of weight + cost and makes the bed smaller.
Anyway, competition is good. Hopefully slate will make something with an upgraded suspension / power train for $10K more, and maybe eventually a larger one with ford-compatible conversion mounts (for custom work trucks, etc.)
It's meaningless to compare a small city truck to something like a full-sized truck, they are totally different classes of vehicle. I get that ford doesn't make a small electric vehicle, but that doesn't make the lightning the "closest offering".
A more reasonable comparison is probably the hybrid Maverick, which appears to be popular (at least around here), has 4 doors and actual features, and starts at around $25k.
I like the idea of this as a Framework-style vehicle. If they really leaned into the mod community and were making deliberate decisions to support this, it could offer a lot of traction.
Shame there's no AWD version of this. That, the larger battery option, in truck mode with a rack and tonneau cover would be great for contractors as an around-town job vehicle.
I want a generator hookup in the bed. A 5kw generator will get me all day and then when I'm done for the day charge the battery and provide me other generator benefits.
I think many consumers want a simpler "dumb" car, just look at sales of the 5th generation 4Runner. That car came out originally in 2010 and they sold it through 2023 with barely any upgrades and their best sales years were all in the 2020's.
Lots of people say it's because offroading got popular but I think it's also because that car was "dumb" compared to more recent offerings. And personally as an owner of a 4th generation 4Runner, one of the things I like most about is that it's "dumb".
it is extremely important that you read this comment: a company called edison motors out of canada is making a conversion kit that can turn any pickup into a hybrid using a drop-in motor and a really powerful generator. imagine something that costs less than this truck, has a range of many hundreds of miles, and can be used to tow more than ten thousand pounds. and you never have to turn on the generator if you dont need to. groceries on all electric. they are posting videos on youtube about this, its real. i personally believe that these work trucks will be the best in history. the most reliable, the most utility, the best cost.
people when a tesla doesnt have a knob: “outrageous. there couldnt be any benefit to that!” people when this car has no paint or speakers: “… take my money.”
I hope they separate the BMS from the battery, unlike Tesla and others, which force you to replace the entire battery if the BMS fails. What a concept, allowing people to personalize and repair their own vehicles.
That's really expensive, I'm actually in the process of replacing the plastic front and rear bumpers on my 1999 W210 Benz and just the plastic parts add up to over $1k before paint. Having a shop do the whole thing would probably cost $5k or more. I'd rather pay up front whatever it costs to have steel body panels than deal with plastic.
But once it starts selling like hotcakes they'll jack up the price to "Whatever the Market will Bear" relative to how many they're able to produce.
With most people struggling to get by nowadays (economically) we'll love the "less gadgetry" option because all that advanced technology stuff (and I do mean even power windows!) is, as my father always said, "Just something else that's going to eventually break, and was designed so it must be replaced not repaired."
This sounds great. There are not any pictures of the interior but I hope it is also very simple and not full of difficult to reach nooks and crannies that are impossible to clean.
These are going to be backlogged for years. The US market is absolutely dying for this truck (and even moreso the SUV variant), exactly as specified. The big guys have refused to provide it, so there is a literal gold mine awaiting anyone that can.
Oh HELL yes!! This is almost exactly the kind of thing truck owners have been clamoring for for years now. The only way this could be more exciting is if Ford flipped out and rebooted the Econoline on this concept.
It has a base range of 150 miles [0], which won't resolve range anxiety worries as the average American travels 42 miles a day [1] and only has 2 seats. I think it will do well for hobbyists and EV enthusiasts, but it would be hard to compete with a slightly pricier Tacoma. When people buy a pickup truck, they often use it as a daily commuter as well.
> Got a road trip planned? These trips are all doable on a single charge of our standard battery. If you want to go even farther, our extended range battery increases the range to a projected 240 miles from a projected 150 miles. [0]
Edit: The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Spending $20,000 on a 2 seater bench pickup with 150mi range is ludicrous when you can buy a used 5 seater Honda Fit or Toyota Tacoma for $0-7k more.
This is most likely targeted at fleet usecases like a factory or local deliveries, but this won't make a dent in the primary demographic that purchases pickups, and being overly defensive is doing no favors in thinking about HOW to build a true killer app EV for the American market.
All true but totally irrelevant. I wouldn't get this to make a cross-country trip, but I would absolutely, 100% get this to have an errand vehicle that never leaves the metro area.
Not really. The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Not have 4 seats AND having a lower range makes it a niche vehicle from a consumer sales perspective.
This is most likely being targeted at fleets, which tend to have a local presence and don't have the consumer usecase attached.
> I would absolutely, 100% get this to have an errand vehicle that never leaves the metro area.
You're a software engineer in the Bay Area. You were never the target demographic for pickup truck sales, but you would in fact be a target demo for a product like a Slate Truck.
> It has a base range of 150 miles [0], which won't resolve range anxiety worries as the average American travels 42 miles a day [1]
What am I missing here? Charge at home and you’ll easily do those 42 miles every day surely?
Especially since your other point said these would be aimed at those outside of cities and those people will presumably have parking/charging at their home.
Average need not beethe target. There are large niches that don't need as much. Many work trucks never go on road trips. Are those niches big enough is a question.
Disagree. I would buy this as a secondary vehicle for in-city needs, not for road trips. I've been thinking about getting a second car to complement our Kia EV6, but don't want to spend a ton.
The thing about range: it’s always reducing (as the batteries age). And then it also reduces based on factors like temperature. The anxiety is solely from the not knowing.
Yep, and it's something that Slate's marketing doesn't directly address. Before Tesla's brand perception meltdown due to Elon, a major reason why Tesla was much more popular than other brands was because of the Supercharger network, which helped reduce range anxiety worries in the West Coast.
go the next step, and offer box and wheel/tire deleet, lots of people will have or can get wheels/tires that will fit, if they use one of the
popular size combos, and many would opt for a flat deck, or custom purpose box
see if it can be squeezed down to 20k, taxes in delivered
with no box, they can be stacked, piggy back, just the way commercial heavy trucks are stacked for delivery.....more per load, less trips
Customization, no previous owner that you have no idea how they took care of the vehicle, less chance of complications and expensive fixes, warranty, it's a new pickup that doesn't cost $50k+, etc.
No it doesn't. An electric vehicle takes < 18 months to become carbon negative. Nobody buys a used car expecting it to last than 18 months. If it does, replacing your car every 18 months is not carbon friendly.
I like it but minimalism always fails for complex products because everyone wants a different 80% of the features cut. You can already see it in the comments haha.
I don't know what laws need to change, or what needs to happen, but for the people in the southern united states, nearly every one of us would be a reasonably priced gas truck. There are no options. I had to buy a grossly overpriced F150 for double what I think it's worth because there's no other option. These fuel economy laws in the USA make no sense. While this truck is neat I guess, there's 0 use case for it for people who really need trucks in the USA.
The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1]
What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable prices in electric and gasoline versions is the Ford Transit.
BYD says that their strategy for now is to dominate in every country that does not have its own auto industry. Worry about the left-behind countries later.
BYD did it by 1) getting lithium-iron batteries to be cheaper, safer, and faster-charging, although heavier than lithium-ion, 2) integrating rear wheels, differential, axle, and motor into an "e-axle" unit that's the entire mechanical part of the power train, and 3) building really big auto plants in China.
Next step is to get solid state batteries into volume production, and build a new factory bigger than San Francisco.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BYD_Auto_vehicles
I think one of the biggest problems in the United States is the misallocation of ambitious people. The highly educated and ambitious people see finance, government, tech, and corporate executive tracks, as the way to convert their energies into social status.
Even startups these days seem to be a case of too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
Well the problem is US wants to be the world's managers. And all we cared about is writing messenger apps. Totally missed the boat on building things, like houses, boats, and most of all new weird things we don't even have a concept for.
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When Elon gets excited about displacing his engineers on a whim with H1Bs, why would any highly educated ambitious person want to work for Tesla?
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Andrew Yang launched a presidential campaign based on this idea, he wrote a book:
“Smart People Should Build Things”
BYD's allowed to sell in Europe. They're not crushing the market here. They're not substantially cheaper, or better for what they offer for the price compared to other manufacturers.
Within only a few months I see more Chinese Electric cars than Tesla (or us cars generally) on swiss streets.
Depending on what you are looking for they are WAY cheaper than comparable cars.
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The EU has imposed tariffs and levies on BYD, totaling 27% [1].
[1] https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/chinese-e...
EU import taxes designed to make them less cheap than local cars do that.
- "BYD did it by"
Also the many systemic, industry-wide factors discussed last week in
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43692677 ("America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back (molsonhart.com)" — 1010 comments)
I agree with the gist of that piece; focusing on specific engineering choices (important as they are) is missing the forest for a particularly interesting tree. Any American EV maker is heavily disadvantaged right now, no matter how clever they are.
What went wrong is that the federal government didn't build or legislate a national charging infrastructure to match the scale of the interstate highway system.
They could have strong-armed the states into it with a combination of funding the construction and the way they mandated the 21 drinking age: by threatening to withhold highway funds.
They definitely tried... $7.5 Billion worth. It's on pause now :-(
https://www.govtech.com/transportation/federal-funding-for-e...
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> They could have strong-armed the states into it with a combination of funding the construction and the way they mandated the 21 drinking age: by threatening to withhold highway funds.
Yea let's give the federal government more power. That's going so well right now.
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Isn't this lack of forward thinking somewhat the general problem now?
From an EU perspective the world as it has existed in the living memory is a world shaped by decisive US-actions. The way EVs have been approached were anything but that. Arguably neither did Germany, because of the way their politicians are entangled with the car manufacturers.
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The Chevy Spark EV is an incredible vehicle and has been my around town go kart for the past 7 years. Cost me $11k (!!) as an off lease purchase.
I adored my Spark EV til it sadly died (fairly scarily, on a highway access road) one day. Chevy was never able to repair it and ultimately gave me a nice payout after paying for a rental for me for nearly a year.
But if you sold the Spark EV for 20k today with like 120mi of range, it would be perfect and would satisfy all my needs 99% of the time. Even mine (13k all in) was great here in LA with ~60mi of range. I loved how small and easy to park it was without feeling cramped to me at all. If it had CarPlay I'd've said it was the perfect car haha.
It's a shame they haven't rebooted it yet as a pure EV. It's right there in the name!
> dominate in every country that does not have its own auto industry.
That's because they plan to have a small number of huge factories to keep costs down.
But that means they need cheap ships, and can only sell to places with no car tariffs - which tends to be the countries without an auto industry.
I don't really see how any car company can "fall behind" in EV.
Fundamentally, IMO, EVs are such a simple concept mechanically that any company capable of building a conventional ICE vehicle can build an EV.
It's glib to say that - obviously there's a lot of unsaid complexity (battery back cooling, fitting into the frame, and so on), but the actual drivetrain component is just so simple. That EVs are still expensive is to me a sign that production hasn't ramped up yet. So long as production is limited EVs will remain a luxury product - but I can't imagine that's going to continue for all that much longer with an increasing backlog of used EVs on the market and decreasing battery prices.
Even if there were no improvements to be had in the vehicle itself, improvements in manufacturing processes determine how expensive the product is and thus how competitively priced the vehicle can be. Falling behind on price means falling behind on market share which means falling behind on efficiencies of scale which often means going out of business or at best becoming a niche producer.
Honda and Toyota weren't able to outcompete US manufacturers in the 1980s by offering higher performance vehicles but by delivering similar quality products at lower prices by making use of superior production techniques like Lean and JIT inventory management.
Are you serious? EVs have been the biggest disruption in the auto industry. It has created major corporations who made the attempts of traditional manufacturers seem obsolete.
VW Group and Stellantis totally failed to compete with Chinese manufacturers and were driven out of the Chinese EV market almost entirely. Competition is extremely fierce.
>That EVs are still expensive
Look up what they cost in China.
>So long as production is limited EVs will remain a luxury product
Around 50% of new sales in China. Not "luxury" in any meaningful way.
The issue is that EVs do not differentiate themselves by power train. They differentiate themselves by battery and software.
They are doing a lot of advertisment and promo in Germany which has a active and kinda stable car Industrie.
Pretty sure they plan to disrupt any market
BYD buses are operating in the US.
In terms of BYD dominance, one needs to keep in mind the subsidy that the Chinese government is providing, such that they can sell cars below cost.
https://www.shs-conferences.org/articles/shsconf/pdf/2024/27...
Just 2018 to 2022, BYD received $5.9B. And that doesn't include all the indirect subsidies that went to suppliers like the battery manufacturers.
It's a part of Chinese government strategy of "build it and they will come". Massively subsidize select industries, dominate the market.
Which is why the EU has put high tariff's on the cars.
That is not that much in terms of subsidy for a critical industry. I tried finding the awards for Tesla but the articles lump in government contracts and report the figure to be in tens of billions. I am sure they have received a comparable amount of funding. BYD has just been able to make better use of it I suppose.
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Did you mean to say sodium batteries instead of lithium in your "BYD did it" sentence?
No. Five years ago BYD introduced their "blade battery", which is a lithium iron phosphate battery built up of plate-like "blades" in rectangular casings.[1] Wh/L is about the same as lithium ion, Wh/Kg is not as good, and Wh/$ is better. It will survive the "nail test" and does not not go into thermal runaway.
Today, most of BYD's products use this technology. It's been improved to handle higher charging rates. Seems to work fine. Lithium-ion has better Wh/Kg, and it's still used in some high-end cars, mostly Teslas. BYD's approach has captured the low and medium priced markets.
BYD has announced that they plan first shipments of cars with solid state batteries (higher Wh/Kg) in 2027. Price will be high at first, and they will first appear in BYD's high-end cars. Like these.[3] BYD has the Yangwang U8, a big off-road SUV comparable to the Rivian, and the Yangwang U9, a "hypercar". Just to show that they can make them, probably.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIt5z4wT9RE
[2] https://electrek.co/2025/02/17/byd-confirms-evs-all-solid-st...
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHWXx1KsvVY
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For anyone curious, if you made a similarly sized gas-powered pickup with an i4 engine, it would be penalized more than a full-sized pickup for being too fuel inefficient, despite likely getting much better mileage than an F-150 because, since 2011, bigger cars are held to a lesser standard by CAFE[1].
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy...
Automotive industry is one of the biggest scams on planet earth. One of my favorite cases recently is how Suzuki Jimny is banned in Europe and US because of emission standards allegedly, so the little Jimny is emitting 146g/km but somehow there is no problem to buy a G-Class that is emitting 358g/km oh and surprise surprise Mercedes are going to release a smaller more affordable G-Class [1].
[1] - https://www.motortrend.com/news/2026-mercedes-benz-baby-g-wa...
Manufacturers must hit a level of CO2 emissions on average across their whole fleet. As such, Suzuki is choosing to discontinue the Jimny because of the tougher fleet average targets starting in 2025. Overall you’re right that it’s a bit of a fix; Mercedes ‘pools’ its emissions with other manufacturers/brands. It currently pools with Smart, but may also pool with Volvo/Polestar? [0] It’s such an obvious approach to ‘game’ the targets, it’s a wonder the EU didn’t see it coming when they introduced the scheme. [0] https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/mercedes-benz-intends-to...
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I wonder if that's why Ford, Ram, and Nissan all at the same time decide to discontinue their mini cargo vans a year ago.
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The Jimny is my favorite example of a cool little vehicle that would address a glaring hole in the U.S. market.
The situation here is pathetic. We can't have truly small trucks or sport-utes because of obviously incompetent or corrupt regulations.
The Jimny or similar Suzuki models would not be offered for sale in the U.S. because it’s basically the latest iteration of the Samuri, which died there after Consumer Reports falsely claimed that it was dangerously prone to rollover.
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Example #5621 that a simple carbon tax would be miles better than the complex morass of regulations we currently have.
That's overly reductive.
1. Poorer people tend to drive older vehicles, so if you solely encourage higher fuel economies by taxing carbon emissions, then the tax is (at least short-term) regressive.
2. You can work around #1 by applying incentives for manufacturers to make more efficient cars should lead any carbon tax
3. If you just reward companies based on fleet-average fuel economy without regard to vehicle size, then it would be rather bad for US car companies (who employ unionized workers) that historically make larger cars than Asian and European companies.
4. So the first thing done was to have a separate standard for passenger vehicles and light-trucks, but this resulted in minivans and SUVs being made in such a way as to get the light-truck rating
5. We then ended up with the size-based calculation we have today, but the formula is (IMO) overly punitive on small vehicles. Given that the formula was forward looking, it was almost certain to be wrong in one direction or the other, but it hasn't been updated.
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I think the best way is to tax fuel itself. This way worse mpg result in more tax.
Tax diesel more than gasoline, LNG less.
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The purpose of the CAFE regulations is very explicitly to favor American automakers who make big trucks.
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This has been a known problem and could be changed if the political will to make common sense policy changes and corrections when needed was anywhere near existing. Unfortunately, we live in a [political] dystopia
> a simple carbon tax would be miles better than the complex morass of regulations we currently have
Doesn't this just punt the morass into the magic variable of one's carbon footprint?
How about this: fleet efficiency standards are stupid, anachronistic and counterproductive. Scrap them. Then, separarately, create a consumer-side rebate based on a vehicle's mileage. (Because a gas tax breaks American brains.)
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why can't we just tax the gas at the pump? this is, at least, what I'm used to in Europe.
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I don’t think it would be possible to produce a carbon tax that’s simple
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If interested in a case study, have a look at Canada's experiment with it.
Fuel is already taxed. What would a "carbon tax" add here?
And what you’re describing is exactly the reason Kei trucks aren’t a thing despite most farmers actually liking them for their utility.
You can’t import them unless they are old because we want to protect the automotive industry. But we can’t build them new either because they don’t meet the safety standards (FMVSS) and are penalized more for being fuel efficient because the standards are stricter for smaller vehicles.
To be fair, kei trucks are horrible in crashes too. That’s a big part of states starting to ban them.
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Fine print: The truck in the link is only $20K after government subsidies/rebates. So if the government gives my tax dollars to buyers of this truck, then it will cost $20K.
Even finer print: the $7,500 federal incentive is a tax rebate. If you don't have a $7,500 tax liability, you won't get the full amount. (this also applies if you transfer the credit to the dealer at point of sale). I mean, money is fungible and all, but your particular tax dollars aren't going to people who buy EVs, they are just paying less in taxes.
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Electric vehicle tax credits are non-refundable tax credits meaning you can't get a credit for more than you owe. [1][2]
Which means no one is getting your tax dollars to buy vehicles (though there may be some infrastructure or manufacturing grants for companies).
[1] https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12600
[2] https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/tax-credits-for-individuals-wha...
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As opposed to other prices that are not the product of a political economy?
It's ~28k without them, particularly when considering recent inflation it's an attractive price... inflation corrected it's in the vague ballpark of other small IC trucks when they were still available.
E.g. a early 2000's Nissan frontier base model was $23k in today's money. It was a somewhat better speced (e.g. more hauling capacity) and much better range, but this new car likely has significantly lower operating costs that would easily justify a 5k uplift.
So I think it ought to be perfectly viable without the subsidy, especially so long as the absurd CAFE standards continue to exist giving EV's a monopoly on this truck size.
Yes, and you will benefit, because the role of the state is to advance the collective and common good.
That's why we have TeH gOvErNmEnT.
[dead]
My favorite thing to come out of CAFE regulations was the Aston Martin Cygnet. It was just a re-badged Toyota iQ whose sole purpose was to raise the average fuel economy within their fleet.
Later they made a one off version for Goodwood that has a V8 stuffed under the hood.
> My favorite thing to come out of CAFE regulations was the Aston Martin Cygnet. It was just a re-badged Toyota iQ whose sole purpose was to raise the average fuel economy within their fleet.
Maybe that's a good thing. It compelled Aston Martin to provide their customers with a fuel-efficient option.
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Repealing these Obama era rules would go a long way to restoring automotive affordability. Can't undo cash for clunkers though
This is largely why all the vehicles around us have become supersized. It's completely idiotic.
It's also who sedans and compact cars have largely ceased to exist. The vast majority of new vehicles are crossovers or _light trucks_, which aren't held to the same emission/efficiency standards.
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Anybody know how it got to this point? It can't be because of regulatory capture, right? I don't think small cars are getting made for the US because of SUV mania and something like a 67 MPG requirement for the Honda Fit based on it's build.
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I have a small(*) twenty year old i4 pickup and I regularly get cash offers for it while out and about. There is a lot of demand for the small inexpensive and relatively fuel efficient utility vehicles that the government currently prohibits manufacturing.
(*Ironically, though small it has a considerably longer bed than many currently produced larger and less fuel efficient trucks... I'm mystified by trucks that can't even contain a bike without removing a wheel or hanging one over a gate. Looks like the bed on this EV is a bit short too, but a short bed on a small truck is more excusable than a short bed on a huge truck)
> since 2011, bigger cars are held to a lesser standard by CAFE[1].
... and this is why American cars got so huge, if anyone was curious.
This is extremely refreshing. I think that it would be possible to make something like this in the US for under $15K even. Cars and trucks are so over-engineered and come with tons of low value options intended to drive up the price.
For a case in point, consider that headlights that turn on and off automatically in response to darkness (or rain) are not a standard feature on many cars, yet they include a manual switch that costs more than a photosensor only because of the trim-level upgrades.
Cars could include a slot for a tablet but instead come with overpriced car stereos and infotainment systems that are always light years worse than the most amateurish apps on any mobile app store.
As should be very clear by now after the 2008 US auto industry bailouts and the 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs, the US auto industry is heavily protected and faces virtually no competition, which is why a common sense vehicle like the one in the article sounds revolutionary, though I imagine BYD could deliver something a lot more impressive for $10K if allowed to compete in the US without tariffs.
BYD is also heavily subsidized by the Chinese government.
If the us were not to fight back, the non subsidized industries would die, Chinese would stop subsidizing, rack up the price and competition would be too difficult to start again because of the monopoly on lithium and advance on technology.
It's been done thousands of times with other industries and countries.
Most recently Google, who had been giving Android for free when windows phone were licensed and Samsung tyzen cost money to develop, then forced manufacturer to accept outrageous terms to ship Google play service in their phone when all competition was already dead, is now under scrutiny for antitrust.
China’s approach to funding BYD is meant to replace much of the capital it might raise in freer markets, providing subsidies, tax breaks, and preferential policies to offset limited access to liquid equity and debt markets.
This support, totaling $10-12 billion from 2018-2022 plus in-kind benefits, mirrors the role of U.S. automakers’ $160-220 billion in public market raises and $50-100 billion in private capital, but with less financial risk for BYD due to state backing.
I think what people are missing is that EVs can be dramatically simpler to manufacture than internal combustion vehicles. This leverages manufacturing advantages and so with or without subsidies, China has big advantages due to its advancements in manufacturing tech.
Recall when China started making hoverboards for a fraction of the price of a Segway? Making EVs at scale required largely the same manufacturing pipeline.
It is the foresight of China’s industrial policy, not the amount of subsidy that has created the manufacturing powerhouse China has become.
US attempts are crude (sledgehammer) methods that leave the market far less free with mostly downside for everyone and no industrial policy goals, only domestic incumbents being protected from reality.
To be honest most of those accessories are actually incredibly cheap at manufacturing time and several have a direct impact on safety (e.g. ensuring people don't drive around with lights off). The cost usually comes as companies use them for pricing tiers where they market them as suggested extras to ratchet up profits.
Driving with your lights off at dusk or dark gets you (rightfully) pulled over by law enforcement in CA. It's well-correllated with driving under the influence.
I'm a huge fan of many car safety regulations, but this isn't one.
(Sign me up for car-hiding-in-blind-spot notification lights on side mirrors, though, those are great)
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I'll do you one better, car headlights should never be off while the motor is running. Just like motorcycles since the 70s (maybe 80s?).
No switch at all, ignition on, headlights on, period.
Niche counter example:
Parents who sit in their idling cars for (fucking) ages while their cars are facing the tennis courts thus blinding the player on the other side of the court for however long it takes them to either turn their car off, drive off, or someone to tell them turn their fucking headlights off.
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Personally I feel like cars with headlights in the daytime on days with good visibility can be too noticeable. I find myself giving them too much attention because they stand out more in my visual field.
When the oncoming cars do not have headlights on I find it easier to give them just enough attention to see that they are behaving normally leaving more attention to devote to things other than oncoming cars.
I like this. Turns out a few countries require DRL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime_running_lamp
But what about for electric cars? Maybe whenever the car is in anything other than P, and for 5 minutes after P?
>I think that it would be possible to make something like this in the US for under $15K even.
The closest this comes to is a Dacia spring. Which is not a great car. The dacia could not be made at US labor costs. 15k is an absurd price, Chinese companies can do it because they pay Chinese labor costs and have serious economies of scale. Unless you sell hundreds of thousands of these a year AND pay US workers like Chinese ones, 15k will not happen.
Dacia Spring launched in Romania at 6000$. Now it's 15-18000$ just because they can.
4 door Jimny are ~$15K in Dubai.
BYD could totally avoid the tariffs by making in the USA (well, they were planning a factory in Mexico, and tariffs on car parts will kill that if something doesn’t change). They already set up a bus factory in SoCal. My guess is that Chinese automakers are still hesitant about introducing their brands to Americans given politics (Volvo and Polestar are Chinese owned but I think the design is still mainly done in Sweden?).
Japanese, Korean, and European brands already make a lot of vehicles to get around tariffs, although it makes sense for some sedans to be made abroad given American lack of interest in them (so economy of scales doesn’t work out), and sedans typically not being tariffed as harshly as trucks.
Yea you nailed it in the end. No way BYD would invest in a factory when the entire government and media are anti-China and could expel you out of the country any moment. The US is not predictable for businesses and investments right now.
Chinese investment in the US is inherently risky. For example TikTok. BYD would be stomping GM and Ford. The next thing you know, they would need to sell their factory.
> BYD could totally avoid the tariffs by making in the USA
Or concentrate on the 80% of the worldmarket that is not the USA
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Companies spending money to navigate tariff regimes adds tremendous cost and inefficiency that makes everyone worse off.
Wouldn’t they still need to pay tariffs on all the parts they manufacture in china? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the tariffs but it sounds like Chinese companies would have to build completely separate supply chains to keep the US market
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>heavily protected and faces virtually no competition
Huh? Out of the top 25 vehicles sold in the US in 2024, 16 of them are non-US automakers. Just because the US is actively blocking China from dumping heavily subsidized vehicles into the north american market, doesn't mean they "face no competition". Kia and Hyundai alone show that it's VERY possible to break into the US market if you have even a little bit of interest playing fair.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g60385784/bestselling-cars...
The only real way to break into the US market is to have factories in the US. Trucks in particular are protected by the notorious 25% "chicken tax", which has been in place since the 1960s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
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I LOVE it! THIS is the kind of truck I'd be looking at to replace my 1998 Ford Ranger.
Here is what could be potential deal-breakers:
- Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
- Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both!
- Comparable hauling and towing capacity to the 1998 Ford Ranger. Those numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I do use the truck as a truck, and I occasionally need the hauling capacity (weight).
- Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
If anyone from Slate is reading this, this is how I'm looking at this truck. FYI, I'll be comparing this to the Ford Maverick.
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!
EDIT: Ughhh, according to the video that another user posted, it looks like there's an app, and yes, "updates" go through it :(
> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both!
Yes to a simple battery system!
> - Comparable hauling and towing capacity to the 1998 Ford Ranger. Those numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I do use the truck as a truck, and I occasionally need the hauling capacity (weight).
Yes!
> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families. You really want a bench seat to at least stick a small child between the driver and passenger. Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.
The article mentions an SUV upgrade kit that will bolt onto the back of the truck. Ugh, OK I guess. Sad that that's the way it will probably have to go.
1: https://youtu.be/cq1qEjwSYkw
> Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families.
What you need is not a pickup truck. Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.
> Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.
Rightfully so. Back in the day we did so many things we shouldn't have, and survivorship bias makes us default to thinking it was ok. As kids, we used to go barrelling down dirt roads in the back of pickups or played in the backs of station wagons. There's a reason automobile deaths have gone down.
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I'd want the mobile app to be an auxiliary, not a requirement for operating the truck. Keep the dashboard simple.
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> Yes to a simple battery system!
Battery balancing and conditioning does not need to be fancy, and does not need a fancy screen; a couple of LEDs should suffice.
But I'd like my batteries charged competently, recharged efficiently while braking, worn uniformly, and kept at reasonable temperature. It's not hard to do completely automatically and invisibly; a quality electric bike would have it.
I absolutely agree with you on the NO APP thing. I too just want air conditioning knobs and that's it. A truck from 1980 that is an EV that can haul lumber to build a house.
> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning.
Why should it lack that? That's a tiny piece of software in the charge controller, which on this vehicle ought to be some tiny microcontroller.
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> Noooooooooo! No apps, please!
I wish devices could have web servers and web-based UI rather than thick "apps" that end up rotting when device manufacturers arbitrarily decide that old software won't work anymore (cough, cough-- Apple-- cough, cough).
I know we can't because "security", no end-to-end over the Internet anymore, etc. >sigh<
It seems like we've engineered the networking and software ecosystem to promote disposable "smart" devices. It's almost like somebody profits from it. Hmm...
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> Yes to a simple battery system!
But you realize this will make cold-weather range suck and on-the-road charging suck, right?
Preheating the battery and cabin on "shore power" is something EV buyers just expect at this point because that can consume 2-3kWh of energy (equivalent to 6-10 miles or 10-16 km). That's almost 10% of Slate's range (see below).
Preheating the battery about 10-15 minutes before you arrive at a supercharger is another expected feature. It can increase charge acceptance rate by over 50% (reduce charge time by 1/3).
The 150 mile range is extremely optimistic given the size of the battery and shape of the truck. With just 5% top and bottom buffers, you'd need to achieve over 3.1 miles/kWh... which is the consumption expected of a small aerodynamic sedan. I would bet real money that highway range (at 75 mph) for the small battery is less than 120 miles from 100% to 0.
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>Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!
What car is tied to your phone? A mustang mach-e, for instance, does not require your phone at all. It has a FOB for opening the doors and starting it, you can program the charging times from the in-car screen.
The app is optional, exactly as it should be. This car DESPERATELY is going to need an app when it comes to charging whether you know it or not. With no in-car screen you'll have absolutely no way to control charging which WILL come back to bite you.
>Yes to a simple battery system!
"simple" in this case will add cost. Nearly every EV has the battery as a part of the structural frame of the vehicle for a reason (there are some niche exceptions in China). Nothing is impossible, but I don't see them making the battery easily swappable, while also being structurally sound, and keeping the low price point.
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> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
Take her car on those trips then. You wouldn't complain you can't take a Miata camping, why would you complain you can't take a 2-seat pickup? camping? The product isn't trying to do everything. It's trying to be the minimum viable truck and be good at it. And just like the purpose built roadster you give up unrelated stuff, like family hauling.
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I think you're assuming a mobile app would mean that the car is dependent on your phone. Just because an app can be connected to your car doesn't mean the app controls your car.
Bench seats are almost certainly not coming back in modern low cost vehicles due to side impact safety regulations. They aren't _illegal_ but its extremely difficult to meet those standards with a bench configuration and ironically probably why a budget pickup is less likely to have them. Cutting those corners by not having a bench at all is an easy way to save money in the design.
The hauling and towing is another one. Unfortunately batteries are much heavier than a combustion engine and take away from the total capacity of the vehicle. It's curb weight is 500lbs more than the 1998 Ford Ranger. Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.
The problem with bench seating is not side impact but accidental steering wheel input during hard cornering. In the typical 10 and 2 hand position having your butt move makes your shoulders move, the shoulders make the hands move, and now you’re understeering. Understeering on a mountain road likely means death, and on other roads a ditch or hitting a phone pole.
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I had no idea bench seats had such an impact to side impact safety regulations. Thanks for that insight!
It also makes sense that the total capacity of the vehicle would diminish, but at the same time, and engine isn't weightless (though neither is an electric motor). If I had 1,500 pounds capacity, then I should be good to go.
The rear seats of almost all new cars are bench seats though. Is side impact safety requirements the same or apply the whole side of the car?
I believe airbag requirements prevent this because the middle seat would require a console mounted airbag where infotainment systems normally live
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> Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.
Leaf sprung solid axle is great for doing things on a budget.
But it's probably impossible to put one in a new vehicle because the hiring pool of the automotive industry is too indoctrinated against that sort of stuff at this point.
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
I get that cars have these, but my PHEV (which I don't often charge) lost its app when Ford pulled the plug as 3G was sunsetting and I don't think I'm missing anything. If there's anything wrong with the car, it can show the check engine light (or whatever it's called when there's no engine).
> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning.
Seems like a little early to declare this on a vaporware product? I don't think you need a screen or an app to have reasonable battery conditioning?
Anyway, I would love small trucks to return. I had a 2007 Ranger and I have a 2003 S-10, and there's nothing in the US new vehicle market that fits the small truck niche anymore. CAFE standards can't be met with a small footprint truck, so we only get large footprint trucks. But EV trucks don't have efficiency standards, so maybe we'll see the niche again. (I think you could maybe hit the CAFE standards with a single cab ranger and a hybrid drive train, but I also think automakers prefer to sell luxury trucks rather than base model trucks)
This is why it's so hard for companies to introduce stripped-down or small models of anything: People will tell you how much they want it, but as soon as they see it they realize they actually miss something from the models that are already out there.
It happens with small phones (iPhone mini) to laptops and cars. There are comments throughout this thread claiming that everyone would be buying small sedans if not for CAFE regulations, but we have plenty of small sedans on the market that aren't selling well.
It always comes down to market demand. The big companies have market demand figured out better than many give them credit for, even if it's not exactly the product you want.
I'm grateful they don't make truly stripped down models of cars anymore, because those were always what would end up in the rental car inventory. Every time I'd rent a car, it felt like I was taking a step back in time.
Now all rental cars actually have some reasonable set of features, without you having to pay for any up-sells.
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Huh, lack of an app is a major plus in my book
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> Lack of a mobile app…
At the 6 mins and 40 seconds timestamp on this video (https://youtu.be/cq1qEjwSYkw?t=400) he shows the car app that will tell you current range, etc
I'd recommend folks watch the video – it's fascinating.
The truck gets OTA updates through your phone and not some LTE modem. It doesn't have one. They moved all car management including OBD-like functionality to the phone, too, which I think is awesome.
This is how I want the interior design philosophy of manual controls to be digitized – with digital control. I'd pay $10k more for physical buttons, though.
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This sounds like the feature creep tesla always struggled with.
also, no mobile app? that is a feature.
The appeal of this vehicle is that it IS like your 1998 ranger, not: mobile app = data collection = monetized vehicle = mobile upgrades = basically all the things that are bad with technology.
Honestly, all these "monetized experience" companies forget that (like matt ridley's rational optimist says) with trust, trade is unlimited.
Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog.
Ah, there's the problem. You have violated Pauli's "spouse/dog size exclusion principle". You need to either have a dog that can sleep curled up on the spouse's lap during the trip, or a dog big enough that the spouse can sleep curled up on the dog.
Bench seats also aren't a panacea, I still feel the burn of my dog's stink eye when then girlfriend was prompted to center of bench seat and dog on the side.
> I occasionally need the hauling capacity [of a] 1998 Ford Ranger
Then rent a suitable vehicle for the occasion.
- Your example Ford Ranger[1] seems to have towing capacity of 6,000lbs (~2700kg), and a payload capacity of 1,260lbs (~570kg).
- Compare that to the worst model Toyota Hilux[2], which has a payload of up to 1240kg, and can tow 2500kg. These can be rented for like $65 AUD per day (~$40 USD).
[1] https://www.kbb.com/ford/ranger/1998/specs/ [2] https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2019-toyota-hilux-wo...
> a cheap and easy to replace battery pack.
Battery expansion is a user installable option. It might not be as easy to replace the main battery, but the expansion battery will be, and will make it easier to install newer tech down the road, etc.
This truck has 150 miles of range at 100% charge with no weight. I like the idea of the truck, but you won’t be doing “glamping” with it and you probably won’t be using the battery for anything but driving
Please no apps. Please no smart phone garbage.
I'm kind of excited by their App idea. They don't have an infotainment, speakers, etc. You can just use your phone + their app + bluetooth speaker.
> Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
Would be nice if they had a protocol locally for a 3rd party to step in an offer their own offerings here.
They could offer an API kit or sdk so people could make open source apps for it.
Same. Only thing missing for me is is a gas engine and manual stick shifter.
Same. Though this looks like the first EV I might actually consider.
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I also Love the direction of this truck. It would be nice if they installed speakers…two door and a small sub and just left a space in the dash for a standard radio of your choice. Or at the very least cut out the spaces and run wire so installing a proper stereo isn’t a nightmare. I don’t need “infotainment” but I do consider a radio with decent sound to enjoy the ride standard equipment.
I think you are way off on the target demographics. The idea is to have a car that is minimalist in nature, which does mean:
- no app - no bells - no whistles
Slate.. I will add one more thing. If you will make it spy on me like all the other new cars now, its a nogo either. I might as well just get an old car from 90s... which amusingly will still work for what I need it to do ( move some stuff around ).
There is an app - see about halfway down this page https://www.slate.auto/en/charging
Hopefully it comes with an OBD socket you can connect to as with all other cars.
That should provide basic diagnostics/stats. No need for "apps".
It's actually not required for EVs - Tesla has started to drop it from recent models. I bet these guys would omit it as well to save money.
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Lack of a mobile app is the single BIGGEST reason I just reserved one. This is precisely the truck I've been wanting.
(Well, a PHEV would be even better, but I can deal with pure BEV.)
> I'll be comparing this to the Ford Maverick.
This truck might just steal the thunder from an EV Maverick, and Ford can't release that soon enough.
From the FAQ:
Beginning in 2026, you’ll be able to find charging stations using the upcoming Slate App.
https://www.slate.auto/en/faq
it doesn't explicitly answer whether the app will satisfy your criteria, but there'll be something.
> Lack of a mobile app.
OVMS was originally developed for the Tesla Roadster and then adapted to the Leaf, ...
https://www.openvehicles.com
The subheading said Digital Detox. Means no App. For apps, get a Muskmobile .. the ones running with high beams on all the time.
The Maverick apparently has poor build quality but I'm hoping Toyota comes up with a pickup using the same small footprint + bare bones + hybrid drivetrain formula.
Toyota already has the Toyota Hilux Champ @ 12k USD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hNYwTVPUkQ
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I read that as comparing it to one of Ford's cheap cars from the 70's. Which would be a low bar to meet.
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> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
God, please, no. Why on Gods green earth would I want that? Stop doing this to stuff. It is an abomination. I am sure many others echoed this point but holy crap. No. I am all for technology. But I do not want some tracker in my car. Apps are anathema to my freedom.
>Lack of a mobile app.
FFS, do you want your dishwasher tethered to the cloud too?
> I still want an app to manage charging
Consumers with preferences like yours are the #2 reason (after new regulations) that modern cars are terrible
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
Wait, you actually want your car to upload all your data to someone else's cloud for them to sell?
Your passion is something that market researches for this company should salivate over, especiall from a curated forum like HN.
Unforuntatley, this company and this project are VC expenditure "throw away projects", made to fail.
No motor vehicle satisfying NHTSA can be made in america for below 20k cost of materiels, nevermind msrp. This article and the company are pitching that this is "realistic" due to cutting costs of paint, radios. Which...are pennies on the dollar compared to what satifys US road requiremnents for EV; safety, suspension, manufacturer support, parts availability, reparability. Are they skimping there too? will this 2025 electric vehicle have LEAF springs?
20k is the pre-production estimates. When in history has that not balloned especially for car platforms made in USA? What will a made in USA replacement lead acid accessory battery cost? 3k?
Once this goes over 40k (which, is guaranteed. A mazda miata which is as bare bones as it gets, old technology, is still 32k base, and thats made in a cheaper labor market.), the funding will back off, and all the R and D money wasted.
Please research these vehicles:
https://www.chevrolet.com/suvs/trax?evar25=Vanity_Trax_20170...
https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/crossovers-suvs/kicks.htm...
It's a $20k, street-legal, EV modding platform. Sounds like you can mount your own infotainment system. Just an electric motor, battery, and chassis, and the rest is up to you. Isn't this what we've been asking for?
Yea, it's pretty exciting. I'd like to see how much more they could strip out to reduce the price and still have a viable commercial product. I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car. Then again, I haven't bought a car new since the 90s, so I'm probably just an old fart who hasn't grokked what things cost today. I still remember the day when the base-model Corolla started costing more than $9999 and I thought the world was coming to an end.
EDIT: Yep, I'm just old. Another commenter linked to a "10 cheapest new cars" list and there seems to be a price floor of around $20K. No major manufacturer seems capable of making one cheaper!
1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43794523
According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics[1], $9999 in 1995 is equivalent to $21,275.25 today, so it's a pretty spot on price for a barebones car.
[1]: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
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The average price of new cars sold in the US last year was nearly $50k. The manufacturers make more money from expensive cars than cheap cars, and people keep buying them, so that's what they sell. Before they canceled the Fit, Honda was selling almost 10 times as many of the larger CR-V each year.
You can find numerous new cars for sale in Mexico for under $15k USD.[0] Even Europe has several new cars under €20k.[1] These are the same manufacturers we have here, but lower cost models that are only sold in lower-income countries.
[0] https://compra.autofact.com.mx/blog/comprar-carro/mercado/au...
[1] https://techzle.com/the-cheapest-new-cars-of-2024
I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car.
You're not even living in the past. Our 20 year old Scion xB cost us $20K out the door new (granted, that's with most of the paltry list of options added, $15K base). And that was a cheap car at the time, Toyota marketing to "the kids".
The last time $20K was "a high price" for a new car was probably before most HN folk were born.
For those price-comparing, it is $20K after the federal incentives. So, its real cost is around $27K which makes it way more expensive than what the article claims.
Keep in mind $20k in 2025 dollars is the equivalent of ~$10k in 1997 dollars, if that helps set your frame of reference
According to this, there is only one new car model of any kind selling for under $20K in the US these days
https://www.carfax.com/rankings/cheapest-cars
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> $20K still seems to be a high price for a car
Keep in mind this price is before the USA federal tax credit. So we're potentially talking about a $12,500 car. And consider inflation.
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That's with federal incentive and likely before they factored in the tariffs. Those 500 parts aren't all coming from US. I wouldn't expect any usable version of it to be below 30k once it's actually available.
> It's a $20k, street-legal, EV modding platform.
And it'll always be sold out.
I'm sure you can get on the waiting list (for a lead time of 3-40 years) or buy it from a reseller for $70k. Problem solved.
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> a comprehensive active safety system that includes everything from automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection to automatic high beams
No stereo, but luckily they still found space for a few DNN accelerators that will slam on the brakes randomly when getting false detections. Likely still has a 4G uplink and all the modern car cancer to make sure they can datamine their clients as much as possible and offset the subsidized purchase cost.
Worst of both worlds?
Another comment said there is no cellular modem; updates come through the app using a phone.
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Is it? They show speakers mounted in the front as a "soundbar". Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
I just want some power ports and good mounting points, then I can put whatever I want there, and upgrade it. I'd imagine that people will come up with a mountable radio kit, like the DIN format radios of old, but with less restrictions.
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So mount speakers all around the vehicle? The idea is: customize it yourself.
> Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
No, because they knew what they were getting into when they bought this truck. And I'm sure there will be a dozen DIY ways to add a more traditional sound system.
on long car trips, it seems like everyone in the car (except, me, the driver) has headphones on. no one will miss the lack of rear speakers.
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I like it. My wife runs a riding academy and we use a Honda Fit the way some people would use a pickup truck: we can fit 10 bales of wood shavings in the back. [1] We’re dreading when it fails because they don’t make the fit anymore and compact hatchbacks seem to be on the way out. Recent experiences have made me a bit of a Buick enthusiast and I can see driving a 2005-ish sedan except that I won’t get those sawdust bales into the trunk. We are also thinking of fitting in EV into the fleet, so far the used Nissan Leaf has been the main contender but this is a pickup truck I could get into.
[1] We were profitable from day one because we didn’t buy a $80,000 pickup on day one the way everybody else does.
The Honda Fit is great. You can probably squeeze an extra decade out if you're willing to swap out the motor or transmission (used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable), and if you're using it heavily then you have the advantage that most cara on the market take less abuse, so you can maybe grab a decade beyond that by picking up somebody else's used Fit when you're done repairing yours.
>You can probably squeeze an extra decade out if you're willing to swap out the motor or transmission
In many parts of the country (I'm Canadian, I assume the same for the US) the body and undercarriage are going to rot before the drivetrain goes.
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> used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable
Where are you finding a 100k mile Honda Fit for $3k? Before I bought my current daily driver, Honda Fits were on my list to look out for and in the central NJ area I never saw one in decent condition around that mileage for less than $5k. Even looking now I see people trying to part out theirs for $2k or looking for $4k for a 200k mile one. I messaged someone on FB Marketplace that had a 2013 with 65k miles on it to try and bring down their $11k asking to $8k and just got ignored.
NJ is probably on the higher end of the market but the deviation can't be that big.
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I also love this design and I'm happy that someone is doing it. I think it's unlike anything else on the market.
But, they won't necessarily be competing against other new things on the market. My wife also rides horses and we got a $5000 20 year old F250 which is very basic but has been bulletproof, and it can tow. I imagine old, basic trucks, either cheap domestic ones or kei trucks will be what this thing competes against.
I hope it does well. This is the kind of design thinking that the auto industry needs.
Also I'm increasingly convinced that the Honda fit is what peak performance looks like. But when it dies you do have options - maybe a Ford Transit Connect or a Metris.
All micro cargo van providers have stopped building them. The Transit Connect, Metris, Promaster City and NV200 are all now discontinued. The VW Caddy isn't sent to the states.
There are rumors that they will make a cargo van based on the Maverick but they make them in Mexico, and with the tariff situation I'm not sure if they will be going through with that anymore.
All of the perfect compacts and hatchbacks are slowly disappearing, and solid work trucks have been replaced with $60k+ fake trucks that will melt their gaskets with crappy turbos and can't even fit a piece of 2x4 in the back. There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized. Almost nobody is serving them right now.
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To be fair, a lot of farms need a big-ass pickup truck because they are always towing horses to go to shows or trailheads. We have 70 beautiful acres and a network of trails my wife built that were inspired by Het Vondelpark in Amsterdam. [1] If everything goes right we trailer in a horse once and never have to trailer it out although some horses don't fit in or have to go to the vet.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vondelpark
The Fit, however, is really genius. It's got the utility of an SUV in the body of a compact. I can't believe Honda's excuse that it wasn't selling -- in my area it is a running gag that if you have a blue Fit somebody will park another blue Fit next to you at the supermarket or that it makes a great getaway car, if somebody catches you doing donuts in their lawn you can say it musta been somebody elese.
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> Also I'm increasingly convinced that the Honda fit is what peak performance looks like
Close. A bit of work on the rear hatch dimensions so that you could get 4'x8' sheet goods in there, as was possible on the 1980s Honda Civic.
Also, just a teensy-weensy bit more power, please. Ours struggles even on moderate hills here on the edge of the Sangres de Cristo (southern Rockies).
Otherwise, all hail the Fit/Jazz, car of the future past.
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I'm also a Honda Fit fan. Technically, it is still made, just not sold in the North American market. It's had a new generation come out since they stopped selling it here, matching the new Civics' style.
The closest Honda offerings are probably the Civic Hatchback (lower roof, but the seats still fold down) and the HR-V, which is basically a Fit on stilts with more weight and slightly less room.
I went with a hatchback Civic Sport Touring to replace my Fit (which has 210K miles on it and is still reliable, though I'm passing it on to someone else) and my girlfriend is about to try the HR-V to replace her (newer) Fit that was just lost in an accident, since she needs more roof height for dog crates.
The Fit is a wonderful car. I'd buy one if I could find one for a decent price, but 40k miles 2020 (last year for them in the US) still runs around $20k at dealers and Carvana! For five grand more, I can get a brand new Corolla Hatchback, which is what I'll likely do, but I'd pick up a Fit without thinking if I could find a good price.
I am going to drive my Honda Fit until the wheels fall off, then I'm going to put new wheels on and drive it some more. Best car in the world IMO.
The rear seat legroom is absurdly good for a car that size. It's been our only car for the past 10 years for a family of 2 adults and 2 kids. Zero issues outside of regular maintenance. Bought for $18k new in 2014 (2015 model). Good times.
Would a used Metris cargo work? We have the passenger version and it’s excellent. True 1000kg load rating, and the cargo version can be had extremely cheaply.
We also have our eye on this truck, but with less urgency since our van does everything we could want.
The Telo MT1 also has us eyeing it…
Most small SUVs should be fine though. You switched between wood shavings and hay bales, but I reliably fit 7 hay bales in a 2005 Saturn Vue (wife always managed to get 9 in there), which means that 10 bales of shavings should not be a problem since they're much smaller.
TBH, I think a minivan would make it even easier.
I run a Honda Pilot for this reason. With the seats folded I can haul 8’ lumber or 10’ PVC pipe inside the vehicle, no tie down needed. If I need to tow, I have a 5,000LB tow rating so most anything around the property is possible with a good trailer for a couple thousand extra.
I bought reasonably used, spent about 30k instead of 50k+ for a comparable pickup truck which lacks the ability to haul 7-8 passengers when needed.
Also has the benefit of being one of the most “Made in America” vehicles out there, #3 IIRC.
I use a 2018 Subaru Forester to move stuff like this, with the seats folded flat the cargo space is decent. You can add some cargo boxes on the back trailer hitch as well.
The dream is a Pacifica minivan - they make a hybrid version.
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Love my Honda fit - had to replace the transmission at 160k km (in-warranty!) only thing I wish is it had AWD and just a little more clearance for the snow
The Chevy Bolt is very similar shape and size to the fit. Supposedly there is going to be a 2026 model. People have thrown after market tow hitches and towed (small) trailers pretty far even. Check out the BoltEV subreddit.
A Mazda 5 might be a good option in the future. I used to run esports events and could get 20(!) 6’ tables in the back, with some rope to keep the back door down.
A used Chevy Bolt might make a good replacement. You can find them for less than $15K these days.
how do you haul hoss though? i would imagine you then outsource to professional hauling services? what do you do for vet visits, when it's not a farm call?
Just pay somebody. In a rural area there are a lot of farmers with a big truck and a trailer and it costs less than the monthly payment on a big truck.
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As a car audio enthusiast, the biggest obstacle to putting a system into a new high-tech car is bypassing the deeply-embedded infotainment system while retaining decent aesthetics and steering wheel controls. The idea of getting an electric drivetrain and new-car safety with a 90's-style blank canvas for audio is amazing.
I hope that the noise isolation and intended speaker mounting locations are good!
feature, not a bug, they want you to buy their $4000 BOSE upgrade which is actually $500 of equipment.
Do you have any proof or even a hint of a reason that this will be the case? Or is this just nonsense?
Their FAQs even state: > Built-in infotainment systems raise a car’s price, and they become outdated quickly and have high failure rates.
It seems unlikely that a company saying this will throw in a $4,000 infotainment system in a $20,000 vehicle.
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Its a cool car, but forgive me for not getting Lucy-Footballed again by an electric car startup claiming to be able to "change the game" while never actually getting any cars sold.
Yeah, the completely unrealistic timeline, price point, and the fact that the company is only now looking to hire engineers sets off my "fun looking product that will never be available for sale" alarms. I don't think they even have a prototype built yet, everything you see is just a render. They have not even started planning how to start building the factory.
The price point is assuming the R&D is already paid off, the factory is built, the supply lines are optimized, and they're building a million of these things every year. History has shown that you can't start off with a cheap mass produced car as your only product because mass production requires way too much startup capital. The success stories started with hand built extremely expensive cars that were used to pay down R&D costs and keep the company afloat while they built the factory for the mass production model.
About the only way I see this happening is if Bezos goes all in and dumps an outrageous amount of money into getting the production line running knowing that he won't see a return for at least a decade or more, and I don't think he's quite that generous. Also this assumes that cheap lightweight powerful batteries become widely available in the next couple of years.
>I don't think they even have a prototype built yet
https://insideevs.com/news/757237/slate-ev-spotted-los-angel...
https://insideevs.com/news/757649/slate-auto-truck-suv-revea...
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If they could produce 100,000 of these instantaneously and sell at a 20K price point they'd sell all of them before the end of tomorrow and they'd immediately go out of business because they would be about a billion dollars in the hole, at a minimum.
Not to mention that it's actually more like a $30,000 vehicle because the headline is pre-pricing in rebates.
Absolutely love this. Love brands taking the SLC (simple, lovable, complete: https://longform.asmartbear.com/slc/) approach - minimalism is an absolute delight in a world where everything is crammed with unnecessary/unused feature bloat.
(That said, I'd love a stereo - even if it was just a built in bluetooth speaker/aux-in, which feels like a perfect compromise!)
I like this comment because it both argues for "SLC" design and contains the reason why we don't get it: "Sure this thing looks great if only it had <FEATURE>" where <FEATURE> is different for every buyer.
Good news, it can be added.
> A Bluetooth speaker holder that fits under the climate knobs is available, but there is also a soundbar that can be installed in the dashboard storage compartment.
https://americancarsandracing.com/2025/04/25/best-accessorie...
Technically you could zip tie or duct tape an Amazon Basics Bluetooth speaker to just anything even a lawnmower. This looks like just one step above that.
It’s a shame they didn’t add a DIN head unit slot and throw a plastic cover over it, preinstall install speaker wires. Anyone could then DIY a real stereo for less than they are probably selling the Bluetooth speaker/soundbar.
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I loved the Saturn plastic doors. The salesdroids were conditioned to call them "polymer panels" and I got corrected when I bought my SL2 back in the day, but I was sold when in their own showroom he kicked the door in, it visibly dented, and then popped itself right back out with no damage to either the paint or the pla, uh, polymer.
That SL2 went from California to Maine, down to Georgia and back to California. It never had any dings and had only a few scratches in the paint. My Civics seem to get dinged if you look at them wrong.
I wish I could have said the same about the Saturn's stickshift, though. That actually fractured when I was in Gilroy. I mean, the shaft literally snapped.
My first car was a Saturn, they performed that same trick in the salesroom as well. They didn't keep that trend up forever though, in the late 2000s my father went to go purchase another Saturn, and he was reeling up to give it a kick before the salesman had to hurriedly tell him they didn't make them like that anymore.
That was probably by the time they had become a glorified Opel rebadge shop. I was probably going to buy another Saturn and I might have settled for an Ion, but the Astra was, to borrow from Dan Neil, "hewn from solid blocks of mediocrity." So now I drive Hondas again.
Yeah, the problem with Saturn was the general level of QA of GM cars of that era. I could make the "check engine" light come on by pressing the accelerator with a small amount of force in my SL2. And it didn't handle very well.
I put down $50 to reserve one. I grew up with an old car that I tinkered with endlessly. Mostly because it was simple enough for me to get my head around! This car reminds me of that time.
I'm hoping that they go with a lot of "off-the-shelf" electronics and mechanical parts. Standards are a blessing.
It feels like they're going with a different business model to traditional car manufacturers. AFAIK most manufacturers make a lot of their money via servicing. I'd love to take a look at what their long-term business strategy is.
You could buy an old Volkswagen bug (not the new models) for cheap. They are dead simple too with tons of parts available.
Depending on where you live you can almost build certain older cars from new parts. For the UK I believe you can get every single part of an Morris Mini either brand new or at least refurbished. For France you can probably built a Citroen 2CV for parts, including an EV version.
how did you find their website? all i get are articles about the car but no links
https://www.slate.auto/en
The configurator is fun:
https://www.slate.auto/en/personalization
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>The rather extreme omission of any kind of media system in the car is jarring, but it, too, has secondary benefits.
>“Seventy percent of repeat warranty claims are based on infotainment currently because there’s so much tech in the car that it’s created a very unstable environment in the vehicle,” Snyder says.
I'm totally cool with them not having an infotainment screen or even a stereo itself. But speaker management might be a pain.
I really hope they decide to either include speakers to which you connect to your own infotainment system or at the very least, have the space or brackets where you can bring your own speakers and install them without cutting.
Having a bluetooth speaker take care of all the sound is just too bulky and cumbersome for those of us who need to live with constant music in the car. Plus, I don't want to leave a $150 bluetooth speaker in my car all the time and encourage break-ins.
There is a video going around showing Slate’s answer is an optional, removable Bluetooth speaker. It looked similar to a JBL. There’s a bracket to mount it on the dash.
just place 4 bluetooth speakers connected to eachother in a mesh or something
I'd rather have my Bluetooth speaker stolen than an installed stereo stolen where they just gut parts of the car and rip things up. But it will be a bigger target since it's easier to resell.
> But it will be a bigger target since it's easier to resell.
Indeed: https://www.reddit.com/r/Toyota/comments/1bt8ck8/loved_dropp...
Looks like the dash and door cards are pretty much just flat plas- er, reinforced polymer. Aftermarket stereos and speakers come with mounting brackets and bezels to cover the holes you’ll need to cut.
Very exciting! Electric vehicles have the ability to be very simple, much simpler than an ICE.
Although electric can't be 100% analog, I miss the old days when a car has no software updates, no telemetry, no privacy issues, no mandatory subscription for features.
I don't mind too much if there's still microcontrollers in the car, but I'd really rather they didn't have internet connectivity. The only antenna should be for AM/FM radio.
AM is on its way out with EVs though. there's no reason that a car that has all of that internet connectivity cannot have the same features just without sending the telemetry. upgrades do not need to be OTA, and be upgraded through a USB or even bluetooth from a device. the only reason for it is that there's money to be made from that telemetry.
> The only antenna should be for AM/FM radio.
And TPMS. And key-fob remote lock/unlock. And BTLE for BYO music / calls.
> but I'd really rather they didn't have internet connectivity.
This is the one big thing that has me leaning towards "used, 2015 or older" for my next car. With an EV, you really do want a way to specify how much power / when should be used for charging though; some "discounted" electric utility plans require being able to shed / schedule big loads on demand, too.
If this vehicle doesn't have any screen, you need to use a phone or similar to configure all this. Yes, schedule data can be done over BTLE, but something big like an OTA update can not be (at least, practically).
There's also a lot of value (for some people) in being able to change/monitor charge capacity from distances further away than what BTLE would support.
If the modem could be toggled and there was a USB port for software updates, I'd be _thrilled_.
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You’d be bringing your own FM radio antenna in this case, the car doesn’t have a sound system
While the processing is practically necessarily digital it is possible to build an analog of an analog system - which is to say a digital device that acts in very much the same way that an analog device would. I think many people are underestimating the mini revolution still going on in the quality and price of electronic components.
Are they making any 100% analog ICE vehicles currently? This is just a consumer products issue. Sadly.
What do you mean by "analog?" It's not possible to make an "analog" vehicle of any kind due to regulation:
* It would be impossible to pass modern car emissions standards without electronic engine control.
* Backup cameras are mandatory, so you need an electronic pixel display somewhere.
* Lane keeping is required in Europe as of 2022, so that's a suite of sensors and computer-steering as a requirement.
* AEB will be required as of 2029 in the US, so that's a full electronic braking system (some form of pressure accumulator/source, solenoids/valves) and forward looking sensors (radar, lidar, visual, etc.).
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Don't want or need analog: Just don't enshittify the digital! CAN bus is a great system; don't IoT it or use dark patterns.
God no, CAN is horrible and the horrors people working around its limitations have brought into the world are even worse.
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I doubt CAN bus will be around that much longer, I know several EV manufacturers are actively phasing it out. Yes, it was revolutionary in it's time but it's a 40 year old standard that doesn't have enough bandwidth for the requirements of modern cars, and it was designed before security was even a thought. It's also unnecessarily complex wiring that adds weight to the car. Even the updated FD standard is only 8 mbps, so it's barely enough for video from a backup camera.
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I love it.
However I wonder about the overlap between people that need a truck and this particular truck. I have only owned trucks when I needed to go out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with a payload, in places with poor access to electricity. If I need to go in bumfuck nowhere without payload then there is no need for the truck, and if I need a payload in the city it's just way way cheaper to have it delivered when you factor in depreciation of even a cheap truck.
Would really love to see something like this with a simple 4 cylinder motor. Like the old s-10 / ranger. Until then the solution I have found is to just tag a trailer on small passenger vehicle, since it is now impossible to find a compact gas truck.
I think that you're looking at extremes exclusively when it comes to your assessment. I live in a "city" in WV and need my truck all the time to get to rural areas, but that doesn't mean that I don't have reasonable access to electricity. Furthermore delivery around my city really isn't affordable or available in a lot of cases.
That being said, I really wish we had a small ICE truck in the USA, or an equivalent to the s-10/ranger. Even the ford maverick is exceptionally tall and it doesn't come with a bed that is big enough to conveniently move building materials. The maverick bed is only 54" or 4.5ft and older model rangers and S10s can be had with up to a 6ft bed.
https://www.motor1.com/news/698055/toyota-13000-dollar-hilux...
I bought a Maverick and it wasn't noticeably larger than my extended bed ranger, I actually feel like it is smaller, especially considering modern A pillars and such are very thick and rigid compared to the death trap of the old ranger.
I have had no issues moving construction materials with the Maverick. I've moved around 12ft boards and stacks of drywall. The only real difference I noticed is I can't lazily hang things off the tailgate, which tailgate latches aren't specced to do anyways.
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The Maverick is also kind of dumb because of the choice to do unibody instead of body on frame. I'm sure there's some weight savings or whatever, but at least on a body on frame truck, I can opt to change the bed out even on a short bed truck and add a flatbed when it makes sense. When someone using it like a truck inevitably beer cans the bed, they're going to be really sad that it's not a relatively quick and simple thing to fix (by just going and getting another bed).
> I live in a "city" in WV and need my truck all the time to get to rural areas
How rural are these areas? No roads?
Yes. I want this truck...but with a 4 cylinder ice engine. Nothing fancy. No needed stereo or seat warmers or complicated anything. I want a small, simple, and affordable truck with good reliability. Before anyone asks, I can't drive the tiny Japanese trucks in my state. They are cool, but look too small when people are driving what are essentially container ships with wheels these days.
Any company that made that would be penalized by CAFE: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43795946
Kind of sounds like the Toyota IMV, but we'll probably never see that truck ever in the US, unfortunately.
The base model Ford Maverick XL exists and is the truck that 95% of most people need.
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Rural areas tend to not have gas close. 10 miles or so. I know farmers who get gas delivery just because some cars never go to town, just field to field. Charge an ev at home and they avoid a lot of fuel headaches.
I remember in the '70s in central California many farmers did a similar thing, except with propane instead of electricity. They already had large propane tanks and regular propane delivery because they used propane for heating and cooking, so converting a truck to run on propane brought the same kind of convenience that an EV brings today.
LOL. I live in a rural area, and I think a gas station 10 miles away is close.
In my experience "bumfuck nowhere" has better access to electricity than the city. Every farmer has a welder plugged into a handy accessible high amperage socket.
My experience of rural areas is that few are actual farmers. After all, farming has largely consolidated and become automated. Most country people just don't want a city lifestyle. They might have some of the accoutrements of a farmer and have added lifestyle (enjoyable/fulfilling) overhead and significant attitude (independence & sometimes xenophobia) for themselves, but it's a lifestyle choice. Therefore most don't have a welder (though they probably know someone who has one).
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Definitely depends. Most my neighbors in the country have 100 amp service and they are sucking that dry already now that they have heated water and electric HVAC. Many more run solar only since it can cost $30K+ for a half mile extension.
It sounds like the truck is very modular so maybe they’ll offer a generator option for gasoline-powered charging. Otherwise you could throw a normal generator in the bed.
I definitely worry about the ability of this thing to drive through a couple feet of water safely.
Due to it being electric or due to the specific design? EVs are generally much easier to design for water crossings. I actually drove an electric motorcycle across a river fully submerged, which it wasn't even designed for (had to do a thorough check afterwards but it was completely fine). This is not even remotely possible with the bike I normally ride (Africa Twin).
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I mean... the same should be said for pretty much every vehicle. The F150 maxes out at the bottom of the hubs.
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I'm living in a suburb but been thinking about a pick up
Some uses are, impulse Craigslist and local furniture purchases, outdoor sports equipment, home garden projects.
My sedan is trashed from ocean related stuff I'm always putting in it. I was in a rush the other day, accidently left something wet in the car all day and have a mildew smell now to deal with. Dumb stuff like that seems avoidable.
A 9x8 trailer is a cheap alternative. Although, living in a suburb it might be hard to find a place to put it.
Keep a desiccant pack in the car, it'll go a long way towards avoiding damp-related issues. The reusable silica gel ones market for gun safes come in a metal can that's easy to handle & recharge in the oven at low temperature. We have muddy gear in/out of our cars constantly and this has worked for us.
> Some uses are, impulse Craigslist and local furniture purchases, outdoor sports equipment, home garden projects.
Why would you buy a pickup for any of these activities? It'd be quite terrible? A van is a perfect solution.
By the way, THIS is how we stop inflation. We make new things that cost less and are innovative. People on here are so scared of "deflation" but the reality is, if you don't have deflation your not innovating enough!
I have said this and will reiterate - building an 'afforable' EV is impossible with the current level of technology - by which I mean a vehicle that competes on price with affordable ICE vehicles, and doesn't make compromises that would make it impractical to own as the only car.
There are $20k cars with infotainment, bodypaint and probably a lot more creature comforts than this thing. Also this thing has a 150 mile range (less probably IRL), which is not practical.
Looking at the basic shape, the drag looks horrible, and probably the efficiencys bad too, considering they only manage 150k with an 52kWh battery.
Euros have already tried this, they put out abominable shitboxes where they tried to save money everywhere but the battery and charger, and the result were poverty cars which barely cost less than a Model 3.
Once you spend the money on a 400 mile battery and a fast enough charger to be practical, you're most of the way in terms of BOM to a 300HP electric upmarket road monster. Tesla understood this, and are dominating the market.
BYD also knows this, and there's a reason their C-segment EVs cost more than their D-segment plug-ins, despite the latter having tons of electric range.
Also doesn't cost $20k from the factory, it costs $20k with tax credit.
I'm quite excited about this. Ticks all my boxes for "low" tech, simple, moddable, useful, and cheap. I'm hoping my aging Pontiac Vibe holds out long enough to upgrade to one of these, if they succeed. I put in a preregistration!
Vibe solidarity! I have a 2009 with manual everything - even the old crank windows and manual door locks. This truck seems right up my alley.
Hell yeah Pontiac Vibe! My 2008 is at 308k! I’ll drive into the ground
My 30-year-old daughter is still driving the Toyota version, the Matrix, also 2008, that we bought in about 2013. She loves the thing. If she didn't have it, I'm sure I would still be driving it.
I find it hilarious that it's a limited-edition M Theory model. It has a badge glued to the dash that says "1926 of 5000." For a Toyota econobox.
Niice, giving me hope! My '06 is showing its age, but I hope it's got another 100k in her!
The problem is, the kind of person who cares about those things, as valid as they are, buys 0-1 cars per 20 years, and the market is driven (ha ha) by people who buy 2-3 cars every 2 years.
Very true. This truck appeals to me very much. My wife and I have a 2010 Accord and a 2014 CR-V. We could afford newer and/or fancier cars, but we just don't care about those things.
We're thinking of buying a newer car at some point, but between interest rates and, now, tariffs, we're not in any hurry.
Hah. Fair point. I'm around 210k miles and aiming to squeeze as many more out of it as I can.
> It only seats two yet has a bed big enough to hold a sheet of plywood.
Not really the point of the article, but, does it? This[0] says the bed is 60 inches long and 43 wide, and plywood is 96x48 inches. Is it like, any vehicle fits plywood if you cut it to the size of the truck or stack it on top?
[0] https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-slate-truck-is-two-feet-sh...
Tailgate down, plywood lying with one edge on the bed and the other on the side?
But I agree, I would expect it to be able to fully contain a standard sheet of plywood if it made that claim.
Perhaps .. but then try the same thing with drywall
Yeah, it's interesting that their FAQ [1] just says it can fit "full size sheets of plywood" and their specs page [2] also does not list the actual dimensions, only the volume. A 60"x43" bed would technically fit a 96"x48" sheet, but you would have to lean one edge against the side of the bed.
That said, the article you linked appears to list the bed width at the wheel wells. They say the Maverick's bed is 42.6" wide but above the wheel wells it 53" wide or so. You can find plenty of pictures of people hauling plywood with one. I suspect the Slate is similar.
[1]: https://www.slate.auto/en/faq
[2]: https://www.slate.auto/en/specs
That appears to be the bed width between the wheel wells. I assume it would fit width wise on top of the wheels, which is still in the bed. As to the length, not even most full size trucks are long enough to fit the whole sheet. I guess the main point is that you wouldn't have any trouble getting the sheet of plywood home.
In my old Ranger there were a couple of spots in the bed where you could put a couple of 2x8 beams across it and have a place to stack 4x8 sheets. You did have to lower the tailgate, but they didn't stick out past the end of the lowered tailgate so there was no special requirements (flags etc...) for hauling them. It was very convenient. I would hope this truck has a similar feature, since it's almost free to add and increases the utility greatly.
8 foot beds do exist. They're very rare nowadays with nearly every truck being a super-extra-mega cab 4 door.
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Please make a washing machine like that
Looks like the biggest thing isn’t even mentioned: no telematics control unit to track your behavior.
https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics/personal-informa...
> Looks like the biggest thing isn’t even mentioned: no telematics control unit to track your behavior.
Is that confirmed? I would buy one *today* if this was known to be true... but I am 80% sure that they don't have any in production; all I see are renders.
There will almost certainly be a WiFi radio (for at home OTA updates) but there will likely be a modem, too, for people that like to remotely manage charge. The modem may be an optional extra and the WiFi traffic is something I can block/inspect as needed.
> There will almost certainly be a WiFi radio (for at home OTA updates) but there will likely be a modem, too, for people that like to remotely manage charge.
My 2024 EV doesnt have WiFi or Cellular radios.
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150 miles of range is pretty terrible, especially when it's winter and you have a load in the back. Suddenly that's 70 miles of range.
I get that it's a bargain price, so that's the tradeoff. But a pretty bad one.
There are tons of golf carts on the road where I live so there appears to be a spectrum of use cases and ranges that people will tolerate.
I expect an extra battery option will be a thing.
From the ars article:
The truck will come with a choice of two battery packs: a 57.2 kWh battery pack with rear-wheel drive and a target range of 150 miles and an 84.3 kWh battery pack with a target of 240 miles (386 km).
It is an interesting idea, but there is obviously a lot which can go wrong here.
Can you actually build an EV like that, conforming to all regulations, with significant cost reduction? VW is currently trying to build a 20k EV, which seem extremely difficult in Europe and US labor costs are probably higher. The Dacia EVs (which seem closest in concept to a pickup) suffer from many downsides, to make low prices happen.
Do people actually want less screens or do they just say that?
Is customization a road to profitability? VWs ID.1 concept has a similar idea to lower entry price, by making several upgrades user installable, so they can be bought over time.
This is obviously a US only car and the US is very lacking in EV adoption. Will this sell in significant numbers?
Can you actually make it cheaply? Rivian is notoriously unprofitable and making cheap cars is, far, far harder than making expensive cars.
This should really be mainstream car manufacturing. I can't wait for the day when we have choice of cheap cars, with DiY upgrades and no fucking tracking mechanisms built in and something that works without a phone. I wish them all the success and for the first time in my adult life, I'm excited about technology in cars again!
The issue with this is they claim the cost savings came from not having a screen and other silly features, but that’s not where money is spent.
The real cost savings came a tiny, 150 mile battery. It could easily be <100 miles loaded up after a few years of use, which means there are very few use cases for this truck, and it certainly doesn’t make sense without the tax credit. Cool idea, but there’s no getting around the price of batteries
There are plenty of use cases for a ~100 mile truck.
Right, but it needs to be competitive with ICE cars that travel several hundred miles per tank and fill up in minutes. Literally 0 of my friends have been willing to transition to electric due primarily to range anxiety, and that's for vehicles that achieve over 200 miles per charge. I drive an EV and even I would simply never, ever consider this vehicle based on the range.
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I would buy a 160km truck to drive to and from work.
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There are plenty of use cases in the narrow band that it can operate, but it is a pretty narrow band. Around town commuter in climate that doesn't need AWD/4WD, like great for shopping, commuting, or for small contractors doing jobs. Two people in the vehicle plus luggage, it will be interesting to see what happens to range. Love the concept.
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Yes, exactly. And a 150 mile battery is still not that tiny in terms of size and weight, and still probably costs more than 20k alone, (unless you source it from China.)
Let me introduce you to a concept we call "the city"
The plastic frame probably helps by making it super light. And that + the lack of paint definitely helps cut manufacturing costs
> The simplification goes simpler still. Slate will make just one vehicle, in just one trim, in just one color, with everything from bigger battery packs to SUV upgrade kits added on later.
Makes me wonder if, once "normal" features are added, cost and reliability will be a problem?
In contrast, I could see this really helping the dealer model work because dealers could compete with different customizations.
That being said: At least when it comes to the battery, efficiencies come from a single large battery instead of a modular battery. I suspect they'll need to offer a larger battery at the factory.
Not a truck guy, but I like it. What I like the most is that it's not batshit fucking insane.
I recently visited America after a couple of years away, and spent a couple of weeks in California, driving from SF to LA. The thing which I found the most striking was the sheer insanity of the pickup trucks that were absolutely everywhere. These things were true Idiocracy-class monster trucks, which are clearly lethal to operate in any environment which includes pedestrians. In some cases, my five-year-old's head barely reached the bumper, and my wife's head didn't clear the hood. And these were highly-polished, un-dented behemoths that had clearly never seen a dirt road in their lives. The whole thing is clearly all about aesthetics and identity politics. Absolutely revolting.
(If you haven't visited the US recently, I think it's almost impossible to appreciate how obscene the phenomena is. 10 years ago, trucks were far more restrained, but could still do everything they needed to do. 30 years ago, trucks were fully half the size, but could still carry the same-size loads and do honest work. There's honestly no possible justification for their corpulent growth.)
Anyhow, this thing looks like it can do honest work without killing everyone who crosses its path. I really appreciate that. I hope it starts a trend.
Ars did a good write up on this as well: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/04/amazon-backed-startup-w...
Definitely something I would consider if they can make it happen.
I see this and I don't see it as an every day, driving-on-my-commute style vehicle. As someone who (previously) drove a 2014 honda civic, cheaper cars leave a lot of comfort for longer drives. I can't imagine this barebones vehicle being fun to drive for any extended period of time, or any extended distance, unless you'd spent considerable time customizing it to those needs (at which point, you've probably spent more than buying something off the shelf).
I do see this being great for short utility trips (think running errands, picking something up, etc), and as a utility vehicle (would be nice to be able to have an 8ft bed).
It would be really interesting to me to see a fleet of vehicles like this that are ultra-rentable; think a Bird/Lime scooter, but a utility truck.
> I do see this being great for short utility trips (think running errands, picking something up, etc), and as a utility vehicle (would be nice to be able to have an 8ft bed).
Japan and the rest of the world figured this out decades ago. They're called kei trucks. You can buy pre-2000 imported ones in the US from like $5-15k depending on the miles/condition/year/transmission. I have a 1990 Suzuki Carry that is solely used for trips to Home Depot and picking up random furniture from FB Marketplace that I got for $6k.
Aren't there issues with states randomly revoking registration for imported kei vehicles because of emissions/safety/whatever?
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> Japan and the rest of the world figured this out decades ago.
And it's great that the US is (seemingly, somewhat) catching up.
If the timing weren't so off (I just bought a compact electric car), then this would have been a real possibility for me: 150 miles is about 1 weeks worth of driving for me, it's usually just me (or occasionally +1), and we have my wife's car for driving the whole family long distances. Of course I'm skeptical that it will come in under $27,500 (implied by the "Under $20k after federal incentives), and if it's much more than that it will start to get squeezed by other options.
Completely agree. It has to end up cheap enough to be a "tool", rather than a "vehicle". If there isn't a clear price-based market segmentation between the two, this will get crushed.
Perfect. Instant buy for me if they can deliver on their promises. No other car in recent memory has spoken to my minimalist frugal engineering mind like this one. Hope my 2000 4runner lasts until the Slate gets delivered to my door!
I'm looking for a vehicle which doesn't track my location, and doesn't have complex software controlling vehicle functions which could kill me. Maybe this is for me.
>and doesn't have complex software controlling vehicle functions
Nobody should be allowed to buy a car without these functions. You aren't a good enough driver.
Not when they're constantly failing. I've a 2020 Honda Civic with a lane assist that has quite a few times tried to spontaneously squeeze me into the wrong lane. I was better off without it.
If this can’t compete head to head (no tariffs or other import restrictions) with BYD and the like, then I don’t know why one would get excited. Feels like an expensive consolation prize with tons of compromises. I want competition.
You can't really compete in a any real sense when the labor price differential is so massive and the companies and supply chains are directly subsidized. The price does not reflect the product, but all its inputs.
The $20K from the article is after a $7500 subsidy.
I never said that I’d expect that a US automaker would “win”. I want the best car at the cheapest price to be made available. And for that to be done within a level playing field with regards to safety / workforce / environmental / labor regulations. My expectation is that US automakers do not win, even with subsidies. But I do think keeping an industrial base in the US would be worth that compromise.
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It's a pickup for US market because it has no plans to remotely compete with BYD.
I think most Americans would go for a 15k Toyota Hilux Champ with similar design ethos, but chickentax.
I would buy 3 at that price, good grief.
>"If this can’t compete head to head (no tariffs or other import restrictions) with BYD and the like, then I don’t know why one would get excited."
Would you prefer our roads flooded with cheap Chinese EVs that are the automotive equivalent of Shein hauls? Protectionism has its place in certain areas, and I would say building a thriving domestic EV industry that isn't beholden to a single weirdo is one of them.
> cheap Chinese EVs that are the automotive equivalent of Shein hauls?
Your perception of Chinese auto manufacturing is very out of date. This makes as much sense as calling Japanese or Korean cars cheap and low quality.
By most accounts the Chinese EVs are decent quality. What makes you think they aren’t?
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I’m pretty sure there are more possible outcomes than “this one truck or cheap, dangerous Chinese EVs.” False choice fallacy.
A lack of import restrictions in no way prevents safety regulations. You could also subsidize the domestic automobile industry without having tariffs, so that we protect our domestic industrial base. These things take no imagination.
Do you think that the rest of the world needs to protect itself from Tesla then and slap tariffs on any Tesla cars exported?
Do Chinese Evs break down a lot or aren't repairable?
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The fact that it’s so bare bones (no stereo, etc. unless you put one in) makes me really hope that it doesn’t phone home with a firehose of telemetry like pretty much every other new car. If so, they’ve got my interest
I've seen that it doesn't have the ability to phone home on it's own but that OTA updates and other connectivity relies on you using their optional phone app and your phones internet connection.
That's the killer feature for me, if this actually comes out the after market mods are going to be amazing, having a test bed for creating your own self driving rigs is going to be a complete game changer.
It's so hackable (in a good way) that this platform could foster a whole knew segment of the population getting into EV manufacturing and dramatically increase the talent pool the same way the VW beetle and the Lisa Computer did, hobbyist hackers are the greatest pool for technical founders.
Not to mention replacing the exterior panels with custom displays and other amazing "Art Car" opportunities.
Excellent question. Isn't that required by law in the US now?
What gave you that impression?
We've detected that you're not driving towards the bug store to collect your bug rations. Correcting route.
I could imagine this being popular for company and fleet trucks, but I can't imagine it being popular for personal vehicles with the general public. The people I know who drive personal pickup trucks want the absolute biggest one they can find and have zero interest in actually doing any truck activities with it. They drive their Raptors and 2500s to work and to burger king and that's it. If they do any customization, they might take it to a shop and pay them to put a louder muffler on it.
This has much the same design philosophy as the original Land Rover: tough, reliable, simple and maintainable. It was originally developed as the UK answer to the Jeep, but rapidly became the standard utility vehicle for anyone with an outdoor off road job. Especially farmers. Something like two thirds of all Land Rovers ever made are still in use.
This might well go the same way.
>This has much the same design philosophy as the original Land Rover: tough, reliable, simple and maintainable
Where do you get any of this from? Especially EVs are not something you can easily tinker with as the risk of killing yourself is pretty high. In general they are also more integrated and less maintainable and it seems unlikely that this won't be the case here. Maintainability costs money and to make a 20k car happen every cent needs to be saved.
As for reliability it is obviously one of the first things to sacrifice to make low costs happen. We have seen nothing of this car, I doubt the engineering is even far along.
~$30k for a manual-window, slow-charging truck? Will anybody in the US actually want one?
It's a cool concept... looks good to my eye, small trucks are neat, etc. But, I'd want push-button windows, up-to-date charge controller/battery tech, and the normal EV integrated app. Maybe if it was really a $20k truck (they're advertising the price after incentives, many of which are either going away or vanish for higher income earners).
>I'd want push-button windows, up-to-date charge controller/battery tech, and the normal EV integrated app.
Don't they already have Cybertrucks for that ;)
>It's a cool concept... looks good to my eye, small trucks are neat
And it's barely a truck, 1000-lb towing capacity. A VW Golf can tow twice as much.
Makes you wonder if they picked that form factor to appeal to a certain market segment that's current underserved?
I love the concept, but at $20.000USD it's to much. My guess is that they'd need to hit 15.000USD for the extend range version. Two minor thing I would chance, as others pointed out: Bench seat, and the second: Just make the holes/mounting options for an after market stereo.
Hopefully this is successful and will push other manufacturers to create similar options. I saw an old Morris parked outside the gym the other day, it took up maybe 2/3 of a parking space, it was perfectly size for my grandparents, it perfectly sized for my needs. I get that the car grows a bit in size, once all the modern safety features are added, but I don't see why that would amount to much more than the size of say an Opel Kadett D or E, or a Volvo for the 1980s.
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Anyone? Sure. If this was available 2 months ago, I may have bought one instead of a used Polestar. The Polestar is wildly faster, more luxurious, better range, but I'd have liked a truck, and if I got the $7500 tax credit, I'd have paid about $9k less for this. (Used, 20k miles, $29k.)
Lots of people? Much harder to say. Has to be either "first car" kind of thing for someone young, or "second car" in a family where it's OK to have a 2-seater with limited range be used for commuting/errands. (Or "third car" for people with money to spare.)
There's a 5-seat SUV version, so that expands the market a bit. I'm still not convinced it'll sell without beefing up the specs a bit while maintaining the price.
"third car" for people with money to spare.
Yeah, but the same ~$20k - $30k buys you a heck of a lot more ICE. A new Maverick XLT starts in that range. Or a Lariat trim at $34k. And if this is just a toy, that same money gets you in a new base or very high-spec used Miata.
>(Or "third car" for people with money to spare.)
...or have a spouse and many driving age children. I'm currently in the market for car for the fifth driver in the family.
Why slow-charging? I didn't see anything about that in the article?
120kW charging system, so ~30 minute 20-80% (on a relatively small battery), was what I saw. It's not "wall plug" slow, but it's nowhere near state-of-the-art. The small battery and slow(-ish) charging means it's mostly a run-about and less (relatively) suitable for roadtrips. The American market loves to buy on the most intense use, not the average or minimal - giant pickup trucks because somebody might go to Home Depot once a season or tow a small boat at the beginning/end of lake season. Etc.
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I'm very positive, however note that when they mention "injection molded polypropylene composite material" - this (i think) is the same material used for Seadoo Spark jetskis. I owned one and had a minor crash, and because this material cannot be repaired, the entire hull needed replacing, it was an insurance write-off. I hope they've thought about how to make this car repairable and not 'disposable' after the first inevitable minor crash. Of course this may not be a fair comparison because jetski hulls are exposed, whereas car chassis' have panels and bumpers.
I would love to have such a simple car, here in the uk.
Something tells me though, that if such a company got successful, it wouldn't be long before the features started creeping back in, to justify an increase in price.
This looks great. But isn't there a long history of new car companies over the last few decades that have an impressive car, take pre-orders and never deliver? Something about production hell?
Slate is financially backed by Bezos [1] and Eric Schmidt [2] so it's not like they're going to run out of money unless they choose to do so. And it's staffed by a bunch of Detroit automotive engineers, so it's not like they're going to be surprised to learn that building and selling automobiles is harder than launching a CRUD app or SAAS.
I do expect a steep price jump when they realize that all this customization (especially post-purchase) makes crash testing really difficult and expensive, $20k is not going to happen but hopefully it will be under $30k MSRP and under $40k with typical options, at least targeting a different market than Rivian.
[1] https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/08/inside-the-ev-startup-secr...
[2] https://www.fastcompany.com/91322801/bezos-backed-slate-auto...
Why would post-purchase customization be crash-tested at all? It’s not currently. If I buy an F-150 and jack it up, it’s not Ford’s responsibility to crash-test my work. Even if I use genuine Ford parts I buy from Ford.
Being backed by Bezos and the appearance of infinite funding isn't necessarily a good thing. You need someone at the helm that is driven and in control. Don't know who's running the company or if they have the proper mentality to get through production issues, but it's certainly not Bezos.
Either way, I'm rooting for their success. The low end car market is pretty much non-existent. I've heard people blame the cash for clunkers program that got rid of a ton of low end supply in 2009, but haven't looked into it too much.
"Slate is financially backed by Bezos"
This is too bad. I'm not buying anything from people who showed up January 20th. It hasn't been difficult. And luckily there is plenty of competition in the electric car space.
If they get somebody else at the helm (not Elon), I'll root for them like crazy.
talk is cheap, show me the vehicle I can purchase that works well
It sounds just like the goals of Ford's Model T.
I'd be very interested in buying one of these as my first EV.
Damn, this might finally get me to retire my 83 Mazda b2200. I've king thought this size trick is about perfect, and the old Perkins engine in my truck is getting really tired. Mostly commenting so I have this in my history to refer to later
The big thing I would want from this is no call-home/telemetry. I want privacy so I want a vehicle that gets me from a to b.
I think this is going to cater very well to contractors who do a lot of run-around in small area.
Does this strategy even make sense? You can charge $20k for a car. Why wouldn’t you add options that cost you nearly nothing but some amount of buyers will opt in for a meaningful revenue increase.
Charge $1k for paint. Even if 95% of people don’t do that, 5% of orders just increased their revenue by 5%. Paint doesn’t take engineering time.. just spend $500 and let some other company do it. This is why trims exist, having a single low price point means people who want to spend more either produce lower revenue than possible, or are disappointed.
IMO this one trim, one price is almost certainly a prelaunch marketing gimmick as from a business perspective there is literally no benefit.
The moment you say "just", you've lost the argument.
In the YT video (linked in another comment), it claims they save $350M by not building painting facilities.
> Paint doesn’t take engineering time.. just spend $500 and let some other company do it.
Are you sure you read the article? The is explicitly addressed.
DIY wrap kit I guess is a form of options, but again seems like a missed revenue opportunity. Some of your market wants DIY customization, but realistically some anmount of (or almost every) consumer would rather pay +$1000 for a nice colored than $400 for a wrap kit.
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I think it better if they just give options for easy modding. You take it to a garage for a mechanic to spray it, or to hollow out radio nook, or add a phone charger outlet.
I wonder if I could write my own software for this car? Like auto-sensing rain-wipers with an Arduino or something, and if the CAN BUS protocol isn't super hard to use. This would be a car hacking dream.
At $20k it is actually comparable in cost to a GEM el Xd pickup [1] which can only go up to 35 mph, has 78 mile range, and costs $18k [2]. Totally different class of vehicle, of course.
[1] https://www.gemcar.com/gem-el-xd/
[2] https://electriccarsalesandservice.com/products/2024-gem-el-...
I do wish we'd all just call this a $27.5K USD truck. If it ends up allowing some people to get a tax credit, awesome. But that's not the price they are targeting for selling this truck. And that tax credit is far from a guarantee come late 2026 / early 2027.
(That's before any "later adjustments" to the price, not to mention the effects of uncertain tariff policy.)
This is amazing. I hope it succeeds. If I had any use for a truck I'd be lining up to buy one. They make one in a compact sedan or hatchback form factor and I am in. Heck, even better a subcompact.
I compared the dimensions of the Slate with my '06 Pontiac Vibe hatchback, and it's only a few inches longer. I suspect the Slate + Fastback kit will be pretty close to a hatchback in size and function.
This is amazing. More car manufacturers should get out of the infotainment business. tablet tethered to a cellphone for reception, and a connection to OBD2 for car data is all you need and allows for easy upgrades/replacements when things fail.
I do think they should keep in mind that people will want to do this and at least design the dash to easily accept a tablet mount (vesa standard), amp mount (plug and play Pyle 120v?), speaker wire, and speakers (6x9 or 6.5”). That’s an easy hour install if everything is standardized, accessible, and doesn’t require drilling.
Would also love seating for 5.
https://www.slate.auto/en
Not sure if the article covers it (I read Ars Technica's, not Verge) but the Slate site shows that they do have support for tablets, bluetooth speaker mounts, 3-seat back row, etc.)
While speaker wiring might be nice... I sense that's less likely to be readily supported. Mounts + wireless + USB port for charging is probably the limit there.
Of course, used truck buyers tend to be happy to run some wiring for things like CB, radar, extra lighting, etc. Doesn't matter if the wiring is showing!
150 mile range makes it close to useless. As soon as you take it on a highway, the range will likely drop by half. Which means you can only do a round trip of 37 miles before you have to charge.
Even a very aerodynamic Model 3 loses half of range at highway speeds.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/vkz0SOnR45Gved9B-q9n...
The range figure is determined by a test regulated by the EPA and actually does account for a variety of driving conditions, specifically including highway driving. The graphic you linked to actually shows that the advertised range is very close to the range at all highway speeds.
If I'm reading the chart properly it looks like the M3LR gets a smidge better than the advertised range at 65mph?
It really depends on how they define their mileage rating. If it is an inflated number like some EV manufacturers, then yeah. If it is a conservative rating, then it's a useful amount of range for an "in town" vehicle.
It's not about "inflating" it. It's more that the energy needed to move your car a certain distance is quadratically related to the speed, due to aerodynamic drag.
Efficient vehicles spend less energy on other stuff besides moving the car (e.g. by having heat pumps, induction motors that can be turned off without any drag, etc), so tests conducted at a lower speed will appear to have a better range than tests at a higher speed. Meanwhile, less efficient vehicles that waste energy at low speeds will appear to have more similar range at both low and high speeds.
The article does talk of it being a relatively simple proposition to embiggen the range with an bigger battery kit if that helps. But yeah, it's not a ton of range.
EVs dont lose 50% of their range at highway speeds. Even if they did, I'm not sure why you think you could only go 37 miles between charges (I think you meant 75 mi?).
Round trip, you can go somewhere up to ~37 miles away and drive home to recharge on a single charge. You're both saying the same thing:)
> EVs dont lose 50% of their range at highway speeds.
Yes, they do, compared to 25 mph. I even gave you the chart.
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> "and the only way to listen to music while driving is if you bring along your phone and a Bluetooth speaker"
Why not make a physical connection (power/network) and define a form factor for entertainment system with or without screen and speakers and let other companies design something to fit the space available. I don't understand why no one does this instead of selling cars full of crappy software that can't be upgraded.
Double DIN already exists with fairly standard plugs in the back
That's what cars always used to have. Made them easily stealable though.
This makes a lot of sense for a run around town and short commute car. It specializes for that use case perfectly. I can see a world where families have one decent gas/hybrid car and one cheap EV. That set up could save a lot of gas money over time while meeting the needs of the household.
Also, when is the last time an economy car/truck looked this good? The slate is beautiful.
I think it has a real shot if it arrives as promised, but we know how these things go.
I'm wondering why the hood is so big, given that it doesn't need to contain an engine? Is that where the batteries are located? Or is it just mostly empty space in the form of a frunk serving as a crumple zone to meet crash testing standards? I hope it's not just a strictly aesthetic thing, because you could reduce that distance and end up with an even more practical truck.
It has a 7 cubic foot frunk in there.
This is just beautiful. A small, functional, electric truck. Not a luxury SUV with a tiny truck bed for cowboy cosplayers, or a cyberpunk glue heap.
I hope they sell millions.
Price seems to be creeping up. Car and Driver says $28K.[1] That may be related to "incentives".
This could be very popular with companies that need small fleets of pickup trucks. The ones that have company logos on the side.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVeYjxQPdz4
Yea, incentives are currently about 7-8k depending on state so that sounds about right.
That's what I want. That's almost exactly what I want.
If it were 4x4 it would be literally exactly what I want.
I have dreamt of some entity trying to do this. A completely stripped down vehicle sold for a (hopefully) sustainable profit. I wish them as well as possible, and they will have my interest in purchasing one.
If I undersand the article right, it sounds like they make it with no features but that you add yourself afterwards
"We moved all the complicated parts outside the factory"
What does that really mean? You can paint it yourself, well ok, people may like that. Making it easy to service is great.
If I want electric windows is that adaptable? (It may come with electric windows) When I want to put in a stereo A navigation system? AC? (Might come with it)
It would be cool if the car was a abit "framework" so it has an open well thought out way to add and integrate features a person may want.
THe compnay and 3rd parties could offer up all sorts of cool stuff.
I like the idea, but I think a hybrid version would be the better first product. A 150 mile range is going to limit the people who will purchase this truck.
What’s the price without incentives though?
It is mentioned in the article - $27,500.
[Edit: Got that number not from the original article, but from the Ars article another person posted in this thread.]
Of course this assumes the Trump administration doesn't shitcan the $7,500 tax credit, which is not something I'd bet a new company on.
I put down a deposit for one.
An EV that's designed to be user-serviceable, has modular upgrades, and isn't full of surveillance technology? This checks all the boxes for me. Can't wait to play with it.
I LOVE this idea. I’ve specifically been looking to buy a tiny truck or van, “can hold sheets of plywood” being a major criteria. I love the idea of that being a simple electric I can charge at home. Beautiful!
> Meet the Slate Truck, a sub-$20,000 (after federal incentives) electric vehicle that enters production next year.
Then it isn't < $20000. It is a pitch.
I love this. We have a Fiat 500 EV that we got for $8k used that’s a fantastic city / small hauling car, and this beats it in many qualities in a way that’s still minimalist, reasonably affordable, and low maintenance (if as promised). We also have a 1986 4WD VW camper van which gets the big jobs done but is still manageable in the city. This truck is like the DIY marriage of the two.
I love the look and the idea, but I wonder if it will go the way of the small/budget phone?
Will folks revealed preference continue to be big and expensive?
One advantage they might have is that there isn't much on the market for low priced pickup trucks in general. I'd probably rather have a gas pickup than an electric but I don't want to pay the inflated prices that go along with them.
Agreed. The U.S. market had a very long run of both large expensive and small cheap pickup trucks, and people consistently have bought the big luxury pickups. It is why all the small trucks were axed to begin with. Even back in their prime, I saw many more F-150s than Rangers. Its an easy up-sell as I'm sure any car salesman will say: well for only a few more thousand you get into a full-size, and from there, add some options and its over.
>Even back in their prime, I saw many more F-150s than Rangers.
I think you're misremembering. The streets were flooded with Rangers and S10s back in the day. Full sized pickups have been the most popular class of vehicle for decades but that number is grossly inflated by the amount that are bought as fleet vehicles or work vehicles.
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“It is why all the small trucks were axed to begin with.”
No, it is because emissions regulations. A small truck can’t be built on our emissions policies, not that there isn’t a market for one.
The economy (checks 401k) has changed though.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore this truck. But I feel the same way about this truck that I do about the Framework Laptop (having owned one)—cool idea, cool product, but will Slate be around in 5 years to keep making parts and offering support for it?
This is a fair concern, I imagine. If it is highly user serviceable, maybe that isn't a concern.
That said, I think you raise a bigger issue - I'd like to see MORE things like Framework, Fairphone or Slate - user serviceable, customizable - maybe low initial cost.
To me, this feels futuristic, exciting, optimistic and positive.. we need more like this, so how can we make these kinds of businesses more likely to succeed, resilient, etc?
This is really useful. It's an upgraded kei truck. All the modern safety features - airbags, ABS, rear view camera, anti-collision braking. None of the frills - infotainment, connectivity, etc.
Does it have air conditioning?
I think one of the most amazing things about this new company is that its run by women who held prominent roles in the Big 3. Its an intriguing vehicle but a Ford Maverick pickup offers far more value for the same price.
Sad to say but if the thing was made in Mexico and was priced at $15,000 it would be a huge hit. By the time you accounted for the $7500 federal tax credit it would be priced at around a quarter the price of a gas 4 cylinder powered pickup. An entire industry of add-ons and wraps would spring up around it.
Not following why it’s women run has any real bearing. Let’s judge people by their accomplishments not their sex and race.
Do you think women have had equal opportunities leading to this moment?
I don't read it as saying run by *women*, I think it's just saying "run by women" in the same mode as "run by guys from".
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In Colorado, I need 4x4 sometimes. Slate is just RWD. I'd love to see a minimalistic 4x4 model like this.
RWD on an electric truck, lol. What a joke.
> RWD on an electric truck, lol. What a joke.
My ignorance is going to shine through here, but isn't the rear axle the one you'd want driven if you had to choose?
Sure, both is "better" but if I need cheap, rear is the better choice?
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I love this concept and will probably buy one for that reason alone. 150 miles is too low though, I already struggle with the 180 I get out of my current electric car. Really cool to see more ideas in this space, congrats to the founders getting this far!
Seems like they're offering a battery upgrade package, the 150 is the "MVP" battery
This is like a car version of the Framework laptop. Love it.
Good trend. Other companies should follow suit. Simplify the car enough. And make it cheap. Sometimes I feel like Chevys are just like this. Real cheap machines. Or those white ford vans made for industrial use.
I wish those Ford Transit vans were made at a cheaper price point. There's not one in stock in my metro area for less than $50,000.
I'm really intrigued to see how this does. Kudos to Slate for trying something new and building it in Detroit at a great price point.
I see a ton of discussion on social media from people who want to buy simpler vehicles with less features at a better price point (e.g. the Japanese Kei trucks). I'm not convinced Americans will actually buy such a vehicle because we are used to our modern conveniences in new vehicles. You can even see that trend in this thread where people are asking for more features, or things that were phased out decades ago due to safety (e.g. bench seats). Perhaps Slate has figured that out with their options packaging? I'm rooting for them regardless.
> I'm not convinced Americans will actually buy such a vehicle because we are used to our modern conveniences
My town is FULL of workers doing hauling, painting, gardening, construction, etc., and they're all driving old worn rusting pickups that barely seem held together. There's definitely a market for minimal trucks designed to just get the job done without the "modern conveniences".
I also see this truck appealing to city/college/corp. campus fleets.
Looks up my alley. I already went backwards and got a low mileage 2013 specifically to shed all the technology crap. I’d much rather have something newer and nicer
Looks like a concept that will never actually reach the market.
And if it does and I'm completely wrong, this concept is probably doomed anyways, as it is swinging far too far to the other side away from fancy tech and right into uselessly bare. I'm sure a few people are excited by this, but realistically it will have a tiny real market. Nearly no one wants manual windows and leaving them out isn't saving huge amount of money.
Make it comparable to a decent conventional vehicle, but electric, and you may do well. This though is more useless and non-functional than my old Jeep, which has a trip computer and bluetooth as the biggest "tech features".
It seems performative. They remove a bunch of stuff nobody ever complained about, like paint or radio. Meanwhile it still has an app and it's still electric with pitiful range. The goal isn't to actually fix the car market, but provide a sort of self-flagellation experience so people can feel good about suffering with no radio, no ac, no auto windows... And I doubt they will reach that goal, sounds more like some kind of investor scam. With all these controversial design decisions they can brag to investors it's "making waves on popular platforms like hn".
Really interesting stuff. Reminds me of Ox (https://www.oxdelivers.com/).
Man this is so awesome. I do really think they need to consider the fold down bed sides like the kei trucks have.
The bed being plastic doesn’t give me much confidence either. The payload may be similar to a mini truck, but a mini truck’s metal bed will take a significant beating over plastic.
This is very, very close to what I want, but I worry that those two things may prevent me from actually pulling the trigger. While all of the modular features are cool and neat, I don’t really consider them very useful for what I would actually use this truck for.
The purpose of this seems to be a fleet or Personal utility truck, but I still feel like I would be leaning towards a used old Ford Ranger or similar.
"Awesome" is understating it.
"Tisha Johnson, head of design at Slate and who formerly spent a decade at Volvo."
Ye. This is a Volvo station wagon, that Volvo themself discontinued in 2016 becouse it was too popular.
Me, showing this to my wife: Oh, they made a car for you!
She's not wrong, though I'm not at a point where I want THIS much minimalism (or lack of range). What a great product though.
Now, the Ineos Grenadier? That thing speaks right to my soul.
https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/isuzu-npr-npr-77-35q-li-d...
1/3 of the price including tax credit. Too maximalist?
"...but is this extreme simplification too much for American consumers?"
Not this one. It's the premiumization that drove me away from every EV product out there.
Plus, load up the back with more batteries and you've got great range!
I am, and I say this without hesitation, absolutely the target demographic for this truck.
With a 1000lb towing capacity and 150m range (let’s call that 120 when you don’t charge 100%) this eliminates too many use cases.
It’s the anti-cybertruck but aimed at people who actually could get by with a nice trailer.
Just about anyone who doesn't mind the slight inconvenience and has space for a trailer... would be better off with a trailer than a truck.
But this could easily handle a mild commute and nearby errand running. Most "truck" stuff is like buying 5 bags of mulch from the Home Depot that's 10 minutes away. This will handle that perfectly well.
But yes, 20-80% battery usage makes the base model daily range 90 miles, unladen.
>this eliminates too many use cases
Such as? Seems like it meets a lot of use cases.
You could get a used non-truck EV, add a tow hitch and you'd be able to move more weight in the trunk and in the trailer than this thing can.
Of course, it's a truck, so it can move light + bulky stuff, like appliances and furniture.
Personally, I'd want to pay another $5-10K and get one that can also handle heavy loads. This, but for $30K ($37.5K pre incentives) with no truck-related caveats would be amazing. I'm guessing it wouldn't cost $10K for them to upgrade the suspension + drivetrain.
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From the Wikipedia page:
> Unlike most vehicles sold in the United States, the Slate Truck is not expected to have any Internet connectivity
Well that's certainly a sentence. It wasn't true just 20 years ago. It makes me wonder about the world we've grown into with deeply intertwined apps becoming not only the norm but expected.
The idea is there but I'm wondering about the execution. Here's hoping it takes off.
if the truck becomes popular enough post-market modifications will probably be sold as an extra.
If this thing really comes out in a couple years by the time it's ready for mass production to hit consumer hands there will probably be 2 or 3 self driving kits designed for it. The mods for this thing would be amazing.
A buddy of mine who creates shaped interactive art panels with oleds for disney and other groups interactive events texted me about this, installing video panels on this is going to be a breeze.
I'm more excited about this as a platform than even as a car, this is going to be like browser JS, the Lisa and VW Bug for creating an EV tech skill pipeline.
What a gross looking vehicle, and at that price? I just want the old ranger design. I've been using a 2006 ranger for quite a while and it's served me well, I'd like to upgrade it to a ranger XL for that little extra cab room for crap, along with 4WD and power windows and AC, but people rightfully guard them and when they do show up at dealerships they're typically pretty expensive too.
I've thought about importing a Kei, but I don't think it's for me. When I think "American kei truck" I at least think something in the ballpark range cost of a Kei, which is quite a bit less, at least half as expensive for the best options like 4WD, even less if you can compromise. It also has charm unlike this. The range is just ridiculous, too. My little ranger isn't exactly great, I don't push it much more than 300 miles on a tank, but having half that (new! let alone after a few years) is such a deal breaker. Last time I took my truck camping it was around 60 miles each way, and that was a nearby spot.
There's a configurator now.[1] Lots of factory options. The trouble is that it turns into a $30,000 and up vehicle.
[1] https://www.slate.auto/en/personalization
Remember when cybertruck was supposed to be cheap minimalistic truck? No paint, spartan interior, simple materials and straight shapes. $39k price tag. Yeah…
1. $50 for a reservation
2. No guarantee of delivery date
3. No right to purchase
4. No guarantee of purchase price
5. No assignment of purchase to other parties
I've got some lunar real estate to sell you if you think this product will ever exist
The rest makes sense, but no stereo? Why not?
It's embarrassing when people buy a truck and don't use it for work, towing or payload. So you bought a fuel-inefficient non-aerodynamic vehicle whose storage area is open to the air and unusable for passengers, and it's not big enough to carry or tow large items? What a smart choice.
However, with the SUV package and lift kit, this is actually useful. It's basically the same size (and payload and towing capacity) of the 2nd gen Scion xB. A boxy, roomy, small, cheap car. Absolutely useful and great. (Unlike a tiny truck.)
Make it a combustion engine and I'm sold
Kind of a big light phone [0]. China has had these for a bit, I’d guess there’s a decent market for them, though hesitant to buy the first production model of any car, given how dependent we seem to be on warranties and market forces to ensure manufacturing quality and the poor survival rates for new car companies. Interested in v2 for sure.
[0]: https://www.thelightphone.com/
It took me a few articles to even find it mentioned, so I'll repeat it here in case anyone else was wondering: it's rear wheel drive only.
Darn, with removable doors and top, I thought this could be a Jeep killer. But no 4WD makes that a non-starter.
Will this be street legal? Will it have airbags? If most of the car in injected molded plastics, what happens when it gets int a crash with a regular car?
This'll seem a like an odd question given the obvious bare-bones approach, but still: Is or could be instrumented for self-driving? I can't imagine us humans driving forever. Otherwise this looks like a dream truck to me. Easy DIY repair, electric, fewer distractions, meant for work not showing off.
Looks interesting. Are there any real-life non-marketing photos of it?
Reminds me of Bollinger prototypes. Whatever happened to those?
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/04/amazon-backed-startup-w...
Scroll down. The launch event photos look like real prototypes. A bit closer than the marketing photos.
I was thinking; hey, these remind me of Bollingers, which is the only electric vehicle I'm interested in, not for its features, but for the absence of them.
This will be a couple hundred k more attainable.
They pivoted.
I wonder if it would make financial sense to offer the "skeleton" of the car for sale and let design studios integrate all the pieces.
My prediction: this will cost $15K-$25K more before you ever have it in your driveway. Even with tariff and market uncertainties.
They could get the price down to $18.5k by omitting the steering assemblage.
While I like this concept, for my next car, I need the safety features like 360 view, blind spot warning, lidar etc.
Also, though I think using tablets and detachable speakers is cost effective, it may promote car break-ins?
Cybertruck was such a miss.
So incredibly refreshing after the abomination that is the telos was announced
I thought the Verge only covered “what’s in the box.” This vehicle will not be $20k in the end.
I'm not sure why I read this as a $20k guitar pickup...
This is cool, but you can buy a 3 year old used model 3 right now for close to $25k that has 300+ mile range. The model 3 also has, wait for it, a/c and speakers…
How long is the bed of that pickup?
You mean this?
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-first-pickup-truck-is-a-diy-...
I don't want to drive Führer wagon.
wonder who is going to service that mod 3 if T. folds?
Love this! Would like to see a (manual) split rear window- super helpful for hauling longer things in a smaller truck. I put 10' conduit in my Ridgeline all the time.
Okay, but is (was) this assuming on putting in Chinese batteries? If not, where are you going to get the cells and pack for that money?
From the related Ars article[1]:
> Rather than relying on a built-in infotainment system, you'll use your phone plugged into a USB outlet or a dedicated tablet inside the cabin for your entertainment and navigation needs.
How is a "dedicated tablet" different than an infotainment system, other than not having vehicle telematics and controls? Also, a regular tablet UX would be dangerous while driving, and typically they don't have their own mobile data connections.
1. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/04/amazon-backed-startup-w...
It's exactly what I think a lot of techies want.
Highly technical people tend to come in two varieties when it comes to electronics in their personal life:
1. Absolutely nothing smart that's not under their direct (or highly configurable) control.
2. Sure just take all my data I don't care. I'll pay subscriptions fees too.
Modern cars mostly do #2... to the point we potentially faced a subscription being required to enable seat warmers [0]. There's basically no cars on the market that do #1 anymore.
And with #2, you're bound by what the vehicle manufacturer decides. They are ending up like forced cable boxes - minimum viable product quality. They can be slow to change pages/views and finicky in touch responses... which I think are actually more dangerous... but this is our only option if this is the car we pick... and almost no one decides on a car for it's infotainment, so it's not a feature that gets much love or attention.
Additionally, technology moves too fast. My first car had a tape deck. The next one had a CD Player.. then I had to get an mp3-player-to-radio dongle, then I replaced my infotainment system with a bluetooth supporting one... and so on.. Even Android Auto (early versions) integrated directly into the infotainment system and needed potentially proprietary cables (USB-to-proprietary connector), and the systems did not look designed to be upgraded/replaced.
This model here allows you to upgrade your infotainment system every time you upgrade your phone (or dedicated tablet)... or simply by changing apps.
Also, Android Auto has mostly solved that UX issue (It's the same UX on a tablet as on an equivalent built-in infotainment system).. Though iPads probably (?) don't have a similar feature.
So I think the 'bring your own infotainment' idea is awesome.
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23718101
It's not clear what they mean by "dedicated tablet". If it's an integrated add-on provided by the company that just does Android-Auto/CarPlay, then that seems OK. If it's just a holster for a tablet, not so much.
> It's exactly what I think a lot of techies want.
> Highly technical people tend to come in two varieties when it comes to electronics in their personal life:
I get it, I'm one of them. But using a tablet while driving is fundamentally dangerous to other people on the road, drivers or pedestrians. Android Auto and CarPlay are barely constrained enough to allow for distraction free driving.
I've lost hope that we're going back to days of people actually paying attention to the task of driving (even I take phone calls and play media while driving), but normalizing distraction by encouraging use of a tablet or phone seems like a public safety mistake, even if it appeals to the techie crowd.
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Not being built-in is significant. Infotainment systems tend to get outdated, and are also a common point of failure that can be expensive to fix, so not having the tablet hardwired in allows for people to choose their own setup and is also more future-proof.
> Infotainment systems tend to get outdated, and are also a common point of failure that can be expensive to fix
Android Auto and CarPlay solve that problem for navigation/communication/entertainment. The automakers aren't going to provide an open API to the vehicle control systems, for both competitive and safety reasons.
What would be nice is the old fashioned DIN interface, where you could install an aftermarket AA/CarPlay unit like this:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-10-1-hd-screen-luminous...
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> Also, a regular tablet UX would be dangerous while driving, and typically they don't have their own mobile data connections.
I think it's still possible to run the Android Auto app (with its purpose-built interface) on a regular tablet.
Android Auto for Phones has been dead for a few years. That would be the app you'd use on an Android tablet.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/android-auto-for-phones-i...
Also, these days AA can connect to the car's systems to do range estimations for its route suggestions and suggest charging on the routes. I'd hope whatever connectivity they do here includes sharing that data with the device in the cabin.
> Also, a regular tablet UX would be dangerous while driving
A passenger could operate it.
A passenger can do that today with just a tablet in their lap. Why attach it to the dashboard?
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i hate trucks because they're big and trash up my neighborhood with their noise and size, just don't belong in the city. but since some neighbors have started driving electric (rivian, cybertruck), I tolerate them so so so much more. it's amazing how just making them electric has changed (and I hope, continues to change) the gestalt of my block.
People say they, and many other Americans, want a cheap and simple truck. They're lying.
I know you don't believe me but it's true.
Automotive sales numbers are public information. Every single time a VIN is stamped into some metal, that record is public. The gradual decline in the sale of small, simple, cheap trucks is well documented.
People want full-sized trucks.
People say they love manual transmissions, too. They walk right past the manual Tacomas and Jeeps and buy an automatic.
People say they love station wagons. Then they go to the Volvo dealership and walk right past the V60 and buy an XC60.
People say they want a cheap car. Then they walk right past the base model Corolla and throw down $50k on a Rav4 Limited.
Only enthusiasts and weirdos like me will buy one of these.
A company whose audience is enthusiasts and weirdos must charge a shit-ton to stay in business. $20k isn't a shit-ton and if their strategy is to make up the difference on upgrades, they're not selling cheap trucks anymore.
I know what Americans, in aggregate, want. They want a big-ass SUV with heated and cooled seats with a screen that stretches across the entire god damned dash, 360 degree cameras, RGB mood lighting, 47 speakers, and second-row captain's chairs that make getting to the third row easy.
I own 3 cars, a Fiat 124 (MANUAL) Spider, a Volvo V70, and an Alfa Romeo Giulia.
But I am a weirdo, and because of this those companies are about to go extinct (in the US, at least).
I'm the guy that ran OS/2 and BeOS until the bitter end. I prefer writing software in Ada. I had a Saab.
I am literally and actually a subject matter expert on this shit.
I know what normal people want, and this ain't it. I know this because I want it.
> if their strategy is to make up the difference on upgrades, they're not selling cheap trucks anymore.
They are very explicit about not offering upgrades, and the benefit that has on simplifying manufacturing.
When is the last time a car this cheap looked this good? Irresistible to weirdos like us.
are you sure that people want "trucks" the size of tanks or is it that the US is now in an arms race focused on vehicle size? Could it be that reasonably sized vehicles are just not available?
The auto companies' argument about what consumers "want" is mostly nonsense.
Interesting, the options for customization is endless.
Oh good, an EV technical
A very rare thing with many kinds of hardware these days. Refreshing.
If they make a sedan I would buy it in a heartbeat at those prices. A pickup or suv doesn’t work for me.
For comparison, this is a $16k car in China:
https://carnewschina.com/2025/03/25/byd-sealion-05-ev-launhe...
It’s like if you could buy an old Nokia for $200, or a new Android smartphone for $160. The old Nokia certainly has nostalgic qualities and some concrete practical benefits like all-week battery life, but overall it’s not a great deal.
And this is why you have >100% tariffs on Chinese cars — American manufacturers know they can’t compete.
Those cars are priced for the budgets of domestic Chinese consumers. BYD exports to Europe are priced similarly to car models sold there. For the same reason, this Slate truck is very unlikely to cost just $20k when it reaches the mass production stage.
There’s a 27% tariff on BYD cars in Europe, designed to bring the price more in line with European manufacturers.
It's a shame reasonably sized and reasonably priced imports are illegal. We could have much better vehicles for this price now.
All about the chicken
https://www.autoblog.com/news/why-the-chicken-tax-still-cont...
Looks good. If it never beeps or dings or makes interior noises, I'm in.
I want exactly this, but with a hybrid engine, RWD, and a manual transmission. I would buy it new for $28k, no frills.
Electric cars make personalization so much easier, glad someone's doing this.
And it's a pickup truck that is an actual pickup truck.
> that is an actual pickup truck.
Which is its ultimate downfall, unfortunately. It being an actual pickup truck means that for all practical purposes you will also need a car, with all the additional headaches of owning more wheels to go along with it, and at its price point plus the price of a car you may as well buy one car with some truck-like features (i.e. the pretend pickup trucks that have become so popular).
How much before incentives?
TFW just want cheap Hilux Champ.
Seems a bit like a spiritual successor to the Jeep Cherokee XJ, which also has a very strong DIY community around it.
> a sub-$20,000 (after federal incentives) electric vehicle
Buried the lede, didn't we?
Is there anything like this in EU?
Ars Technica is also running something on this today as well. They must be paying their publicist a fair bit.
Yes, it is too much for consumers... Farmers might have no choice though if they want a new truck
They are targeting 5-stars safety rating, but we don't know if they manage to achieve it.
All the images look like renderings. Is the car actually in production?
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/04/amazon-backed-startup-w...
This has launch event photos that claim to be of prototypes.
Seems genius, hope this catches on
No stereo is a bridge too far.
yeah I agree, afraid it doesn't have a/c either
should cost like nothing to add simple stereo system with a couple speakers
Can we do this for combustion cars too please!
Anybody know the safety of these vs typical trucks?
I hope they succeed, this is a great idea. I’d love something like this.
The question is... how many farmers / ranchers need these pickups? There seems to be like an absolutely crazy competition for vehicles for a very narrow group of people.
Who will be buying all of these pickup trucks?
These are going to rust out fast in higher latitudes. You'd think Michiganders would know better.
too many comments here to read them all
but, MMW, i think they will sell every single unit made
basic truck + freedom of customization will be very popular in the USA
Hold on, isn't backup cameras mandated for vehicles sold after May 2018?
Hand crank windows is a weird choice, are the locks manual as well?
In a 2-door vehicle, you can just lean over and roll up the window and toggle the lock on the other door. If you've ever had an old car then you'll know the annoyance of a broken electrical motor.
I've never had an issue with electric windows, or even know anyone who has
Was that more of a problem on older cars?
Never mind the additional range anxiety: rolling your windows up or down with a motor might shave a mile or so off your range.
This is a plus, in my book. The fewer crappy electrical gizmos the better. I had the same question, hope the locks are manual with no keyless entry or hackable key fob.
Why the downvotes on this comment? If you're not sufficiently curmudgeonly to sympathize with this sentiment, there's lots of other cars for you. I'm sure you can find a subaru outback with a built in purple hair dyer or whatever you want.
Wouldn't it significantly increase the cost (think wiring, motor, assembly, etc) to have "power windows"?
Power window "regulators" (the unit that holds and raises/lowers the window) are usually similar in price and weight to cranked manual window assemblies, and can be cheaper. A small motor is not at all expensive and is a less specialized item than a window crank handle and gear unit.
What could save money is not needing to run any wiring whatsoever into the door - if the doors can be made with no speakers, lighting, crash sensors, switches, power locks, or power windows, then the assembly becomes significantly simpler and therefore cheaper since there's no wiring harness to fish (usually a manual production step), no holes and grommets, etc.
But if power windows are going to be an option, I'm not sure how this plays out. Do the power windows come with a wiring harness that requires the user disassemble the interior and fish the wiring? If it comes pre-wired, then the choice for manual windows is actually quite strange and possibly more expensive.
That's why I'm wondering if locks are manual as well. If there's no wiring at all going into the doors then presumably the doors will be cheap. But if they have power going in for locks already, power windows shouldn't be a costly addon.
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Lots of trucks are still for work, but they have gotten so expensive more people than ever are considering them as luxury purchases.
Electric windows have been a luxury item for generations.
Traditionally, with an F-150, they were just much slower, prone to failure and expensive to replace.
Especially if you often go in & out from a gated area where you have to roll your window down every time and use your pass or talk to the guard :\
Or roll them all down whenever it has been parked in the hot sun, to quickly let out the overheated air before the air conditioner can become very effective. If you have A/C, or even use it at all :)
Window motors may not last much longer than a set of tires then, and cost as much to replace, often without warning. You're supposed to be able to afford it anyway.
However in the late 1990's the manual knob was moved to a stupid place, and it became impossible to lower the window in one quick second any more.
I can only imagine that the automotive engineers were constantly being bathed in the luxury of their environment and never even put enough test vehicles having no options through any kind of ergonomic comparison.
For the longest time these kind of things were built to provide an extreme amount of comfort for someone having a similar stature to Henry Ford. Almost lasted the entire 20th century before there was such great discontinuity.
Engineers probably didn't test drive any having manual seat adjustment, on long trips either. Otherwise they would have done better than to have an adjustment bar blocking the entire area under the driver's seat in such a way that about 25% of the footroom was lost, which was formerly available as you occasionally adjust your posture for endurance.
It was like expensive sportscar people started designing trucks. You don't sit upright in a sports car so the space is not wasted there. No more twin I-beam front suspension either, you didn't really want a truck that tough any more in the 21st century did you?
They didn't know any better. At least they once did.
And who doesn't like luxury?
Automatic locks is another one, once very seldom seen except in things like Cadillacs. That's why people envied them so much for decades, and when they finally came within reach of the mainstream they flew off the shelf.
The things like window buttons, remote keyfobs or radio units will have higher margin when sold individually, allowing to lower the base model price.
please, god, let this thing make it to production in the US!
I want this with an ice engine.
What are downsides of "no paint"?
Love this. Definitely getting on the list.
> "Extremely affordable"
> $20,000
No electronics in an EV, nahhhh
I hate this, I need a screen and stereo in my car.
Seriously, who wants to be in a modern car without music, and who wants to travel without Google maps.
Use your mobile device.
so, an actual cybertruck
As far as I can tell, it's "$20K" the same way Cybertruck was "$39K". It's not available for purchase yet, and when it is, it'll be twice as much, because Bezos also likes money.
Interesting.
No mention of crash testing or crash-worthiness/safety. Airbags? ABS braking? Collision avoidance (brakes engage based on distance and speed to cars or objects ahead), etc.
Before the hounds say "it is refreshing..." remember that lots of safety features are there because so many people died before they were instituted.
How safe is this plastic body from lateral impact by an F150 or SUV?
One of the reasons for which I do not like or buy old vehicles is the lack of safety features that are common today. All it takes is to land a loved one in the hospital (or worse) to quickly regret the choice to buy a cheap car or an old unsafe car. Years ago my father was t-boned by a full size SUV at a neighborhood intersection, launching his car diagonally across the intersection and onto the front yard of the corner house...through a couple of trees. He walked away from that one because the safety engineering of the vehicle he was driving save his life.
Another note: To me, while this is interesting, it is also a sad commentary on the state of manufacturing in the US. The ONLY WAY to make a $20K car in the US is to strip it down to bare metal...err...not even use metal...or paint...or electronics...or comfortable seats...and have HALF the range of other EV's...and even take out the speakers, etc. And then, you sell not having all those things as a FEATURE! Yup. Brilliant. What's the least we can do to build a car and get away with it?
My prediction is that this thing will die a pretty rapid death or they will have to pivot into making real cars for this market. There's a reason nearly three million conventional trucks were sold in the US last year. Plastic bodies, 150 mile range and barren interiors did not fit the description of a single one of them.
Isn't this sort of thing illegal as a new vehicle in US markets because of those backup camera laws?
it has a backup camera.
A mandatory part of today’s safety features is a digital rear-view camera. Typically, this view pops up on a modern car’s central infotainment screen, but the Slate doesn’t have one of those. It makes do with just a small display behind the steering wheel as a gauge cluster, which is where that rearview camera will feed.
I missed that, thank you.
If Slate succeeds, it would be the total inversion of Tesla's original masterplan strategy of starting with a supercar and then slowly working their way down the value chain. And what's really astonishing is that, not only is this the cheapest electric car in the country, it's one of the cheapest new cars in the country, period.
https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-10-cheapest-new-c...
It's a very different market today than when Tesla started. Tesla's strategy of starting at the high end was necessary to build electric cars from scratch. New competitors can start with existing supply chains and a base of engineering expertise.
I do think Tesla has lost sight of their original plan, though. They should have kept going through one more generation of significant cost reduction/increased volume after Model 3/Y. They are intentionally leaving this part of the market to competitors as they focus on self driving, and I think it's a mistake that will cost them in the near term.
I think Tesla looked at what is selling in the U.S. market and pivoted to the Cybertruck. Small, cheap sedans and wagons just don’t sell that well at retail anymore—in part because people don’t like them, in part because of safety concerns, and in part because there is a huge backlog of cheap used vehicles.
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>If Slate succeeds
Obviously a very big "if" making it at that price point will be extremely challenging.
Slate’s plan is only possible because they have the benefit of almost 2 decades of advancements (read incredible price drop) in batteries and EV related components.
Exact same car 2 decades ago would have cost a hell of a lot more. At which point the lack of bells and whistles would have been a huge problem.
> If Slate succeeds, it would be the total inversion of Tesla's original masterplan strategy
Slate is an anagram of Tesla. Coincidence?
I feel like this is the perfect first car for a teen or college student Gets them from A to B. optimally 5 star crash test rating. Cheap.
If they deliver i would absolutely buy one for when my oldest starts driving in 3 years.
Where I live, a cheap truck was often a Young person's first purchase.
There were a bunch of minimal 2 seaters that were affordable.
And young people move residences a lot. Having a small truck that can hold a mattress was ideal.
The modern luxury behemoth truck is an abomination...
I had an old Nissan XE truck for a few years. I loved it, the thing was simplicity itself.
I assume there's still a lot of vaporware here, but if they can make it reliable and avoid the teething issues of new cars, I'd probably impulse-purchase one. I would also love to see options for AWD and a full-length bed.
this is cool but does it meet strong safety standards?
"strong safety standards" are what got us to the point of 5000lb pickup trucks and A-pillars that are so wide they arguably kill more people (predominantly pedestrians & cyclists) than their constituent airbags save.
It is cartoon villain tier to compromise the visual range of the driver at the safety expense of everyone outside the vehicle, who is not shielded by 2 tons of mass.
Much of what is wrong with automobiles is a severe inability to think in higher order terms.
The $20K is after incentives, so it's actually $27,500. That still compares favorably to Ford's closest offering, the F-150 PRO, which is $54,999 (pre incentives):
https://www.fordpro.com/en-us/fleet-vehicles/f150-lightning/
The Ford comes standard with the same range as the upgraded Slate, though. The slate can tow 1000lbs, and hold 1,433 lbs, vs the Ford's standard 5000 / 2235, respectively (you can upgrade the range and towing capacity on the ford):
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a64564869/2027-slate-truck...
Not including a bluetooth capable am/fm radio / speakerphone on a fleet vehicle seems dumb. This cut what, $100?
I can easily see Ford cutting $10K off the cost of the Pro. It looks like it has power windows, and it definitely has an infotainment system. Also, the two row cab adds lots of weight + cost and makes the bed smaller.
Anyway, competition is good. Hopefully slate will make something with an upgraded suspension / power train for $10K more, and maybe eventually a larger one with ford-compatible conversion mounts (for custom work trucks, etc.)
It's meaningless to compare a small city truck to something like a full-sized truck, they are totally different classes of vehicle. I get that ford doesn't make a small electric vehicle, but that doesn't make the lightning the "closest offering".
A more reasonable comparison is probably the hybrid Maverick, which appears to be popular (at least around here), has 4 doors and actual features, and starts at around $25k.
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Is there another EV offering that's closer and available in the US?
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No infotainment is great. We're all dying for a car with no infotainment.
But no stereo at all is not something that anyone wants. A simple radio is as much a basic expectation as "windows that go down".
Aside, why a pickup body? Aren't sedans wildly more popular?
I can't imagine the DIY minimalist crowd is terribly popular, or profitable... I wonder how long they will actually be able to stay in business.
I like the idea of this as a Framework-style vehicle. If they really leaned into the mod community and were making deliberate decisions to support this, it could offer a lot of traction. Shame there's no AWD version of this. That, the larger battery option, in truck mode with a rack and tonneau cover would be great for contractors as an around-town job vehicle.
I love it, now give me a gas engine so I can take it on weeklong off-road camping trips
I want a generator hookup in the bed. A 5kw generator will get me all day and then when I'm done for the day charge the battery and provide me other generator benefits.
this seems so funny to me like "hey you want to buy something worse"
I'm talking specifically about the no stereo/screen
I want one.
"but is this extreme simplification too much for American consumers?"
No, it's not. This American consumer says bring on the simplicity. Also like that this is not some monster sized thing.
I think many consumers want a simpler "dumb" car, just look at sales of the 5th generation 4Runner. That car came out originally in 2010 and they sold it through 2023 with barely any upgrades and their best sales years were all in the 2020's.
Lots of people say it's because offroading got popular but I think it's also because that car was "dumb" compared to more recent offerings. And personally as an owner of a 4th generation 4Runner, one of the things I like most about is that it's "dumb".
I'd buy this immediately and just paint it myself. This care looks perfect for modding.
it is extremely important that you read this comment: a company called edison motors out of canada is making a conversion kit that can turn any pickup into a hybrid using a drop-in motor and a really powerful generator. imagine something that costs less than this truck, has a range of many hundreds of miles, and can be used to tow more than ten thousand pounds. and you never have to turn on the generator if you dont need to. groceries on all electric. they are posting videos on youtube about this, its real. i personally believe that these work trucks will be the best in history. the most reliable, the most utility, the best cost.
people when a tesla doesnt have a knob: “outrageous. there couldnt be any benefit to that!” people when this car has no paint or speakers: “… take my money.”
I hope they separate the BMS from the battery, unlike Tesla and others, which force you to replace the entire battery if the BMS fails. What a concept, allowing people to personalize and repair their own vehicles.
> Instead of steel or aluminum, the Slate Truck’s body panels are molded of plastic.
Deal breaker. Plastic gets brittle with age.
depends on the plastic. Some do much better than others.
Replace it then?
That's really expensive, I'm actually in the process of replacing the plastic front and rear bumpers on my 1999 W210 Benz and just the plastic parts add up to over $1k before paint. Having a shop do the whole thing would probably cost $5k or more. I'd rather pay up front whatever it costs to have steel body panels than deal with plastic.
This Truck is gonna be a big Hit with consumers!
But once it starts selling like hotcakes they'll jack up the price to "Whatever the Market will Bear" relative to how many they're able to produce.
With most people struggling to get by nowadays (economically) we'll love the "less gadgetry" option because all that advanced technology stuff (and I do mean even power windows!) is, as my father always said, "Just something else that's going to eventually break, and was designed so it must be replaced not repaired."
This sounds great. There are not any pictures of the interior but I hope it is also very simple and not full of difficult to reach nooks and crannies that are impossible to clean.
Video review:
https://youtu.be/iVeYjxQPdz4?si=RU4gWmJk5WJHiac5
These are going to be backlogged for years. The US market is absolutely dying for this truck (and even moreso the SUV variant), exactly as specified. The big guys have refused to provide it, so there is a literal gold mine awaiting anyone that can.
Oh HELL yes!! This is almost exactly the kind of thing truck owners have been clamoring for for years now. The only way this could be more exciting is if Ford flipped out and rebooted the Econoline on this concept.
All those photos look fake / rendered. And they didn't even bother rendering an inside shot for a car that's all about the inside design choices.
Good point. Is this article designed to feel for demand of a possible product?
there is an interior rendering in the image slider in the article https://platform.theverge.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/202...
There are some photos that look real at the bottom of the Ars article.
It has a base range of 150 miles [0], which won't resolve range anxiety worries as the average American travels 42 miles a day [1] and only has 2 seats. I think it will do well for hobbyists and EV enthusiasts, but it would be hard to compete with a slightly pricier Tacoma. When people buy a pickup truck, they often use it as a daily commuter as well.
> Got a road trip planned? These trips are all doable on a single charge of our standard battery. If you want to go even farther, our extended range battery increases the range to a projected 240 miles from a projected 150 miles. [0]
[0] - https://www.slate.auto/en/charging
[1] - https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us...
Edit: The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Spending $20,000 on a 2 seater bench pickup with 150mi range is ludicrous when you can buy a used 5 seater Honda Fit or Toyota Tacoma for $0-7k more.
This is most likely targeted at fleet usecases like a factory or local deliveries, but this won't make a dent in the primary demographic that purchases pickups, and being overly defensive is doing no favors in thinking about HOW to build a true killer app EV for the American market.
All true but totally irrelevant. I wouldn't get this to make a cross-country trip, but I would absolutely, 100% get this to have an errand vehicle that never leaves the metro area.
> All true but totally irrelevant
Not really. The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Not have 4 seats AND having a lower range makes it a niche vehicle from a consumer sales perspective.
This is most likely being targeted at fleets, which tend to have a local presence and don't have the consumer usecase attached.
> I would absolutely, 100% get this to have an errand vehicle that never leaves the metro area.
You're a software engineer in the Bay Area. You were never the target demographic for pickup truck sales, but you would in fact be a target demo for a product like a Slate Truck.
[0] - https://www.americantrucks.com/pickup-truck-owner-demographi...
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> It has a base range of 150 miles [0], which won't resolve range anxiety worries as the average American travels 42 miles a day [1]
What am I missing here? Charge at home and you’ll easily do those 42 miles every day surely?
Especially since your other point said these would be aimed at those outside of cities and those people will presumably have parking/charging at their home.
Average need not beethe target. There are large niches that don't need as much. Many work trucks never go on road trips. Are those niches big enough is a question.
Disagree. I would buy this as a secondary vehicle for in-city needs, not for road trips. I've been thinking about getting a second car to complement our Kia EV6, but don't want to spend a ton.
The thing about range: it’s always reducing (as the batteries age). And then it also reduces based on factors like temperature. The anxiety is solely from the not knowing.
Yep, and it's something that Slate's marketing doesn't directly address. Before Tesla's brand perception meltdown due to Elon, a major reason why Tesla was much more popular than other brands was because of the Supercharger network, which helped reduce range anxiety worries in the West Coast.
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This is obviously not intended to compete with F-150s and Tacomas. And Honda doesn’t make the Fit anymore. See here for a current Fit owner’s take:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43794437
New Tacoma's are like $40k for a pretty basic model these days.
>New Tacoma's are like $40k for a pretty basic model these days.
I thought so too, but apparently they make an extended cab one that is like 31k for the base model.
OK now do a small hatchback.
I wish them the absolute best. Make trucks trucks again.
Will believe it when I see it unfortunately looks like very early stages
go the next step, and offer box and wheel/tire deleet, lots of people will have or can get wheels/tires that will fit, if they use one of the popular size combos, and many would opt for a flat deck, or custom purpose box see if it can be squeezed down to 20k, taxes in delivered with no box, they can be stacked, piggy back, just the way commercial heavy trucks are stacked for delivery.....more per load, less trips
This is not real.
This will be real when you can go to some place, pay $20k and drive out with such thing.
If you're into car CGI, this is a much more enjoyable resource [1]!
1: https://www.behance.net/search/projects/Car%20Render
Do youngs know how to use manual windows? LOL
They show off that fancy feature to their friends. the first kids I saw doing this are now getting their phd.
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what is the point of this?
a used car for 10k does more, costs less, and has a lower carbon footprint.
Customization, no previous owner that you have no idea how they took care of the vehicle, less chance of complications and expensive fixes, warranty, it's a new pickup that doesn't cost $50k+, etc.
> and has a lower carbon footprint
No it doesn't. An electric vehicle takes < 18 months to become carbon negative. Nobody buys a used car expecting it to last than 18 months. If it does, replacing your car every 18 months is not carbon friendly.
With all those missing of basic features why is it still 20k and not 10k?
>With all those missing of basic features why is it still 20k and not 10k?
Because you can't sell a car for 10k in the US without losing money.
I never bought a car for more than 10k. Seems like a huge waste of money.
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I like it but minimalism always fails for complex products because everyone wants a different 80% of the features cut. You can already see it in the comments haha.
I don't know what laws need to change, or what needs to happen, but for the people in the southern united states, nearly every one of us would be a reasonably priced gas truck. There are no options. I had to buy a grossly overpriced F150 for double what I think it's worth because there's no other option. These fuel economy laws in the USA make no sense. While this truck is neat I guess, there's 0 use case for it for people who really need trucks in the USA.