Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

Thanks for your response + clearly you have a strong understanding of ADHD as a neurodevelopmental condition (and the stats around medication's efficacy!). Medication is by far the most effective treatment method for ADHD at 80%+, which is incredibly astounding given most mental health & brain disorders don't have such an effective treatment method.

We definitely understand that a software solution will by no means "fix" ADHD. It's an extremely complex condition layered on to extremely complex & individual human beings and we as a society have lots of work to do with education, awareness, stigma, medication, and other behavioral solutions (including coaching). We advocate for a mixed method that may include multiple of the above, potentially even all through experimentation, to find what works best for you uniquely.

Many of our members and community members either (1) are already on medication and use coaching to build skills & systems to further improve their lives, or (2) for whatever reason aren't able or want to be on medication [stigma, cultural barriers, can't be on because of other medications for co-occuring conditions, and many other reasons, or simply not wanting to] and use coaching either on it's own or with therapy/other modalities of care. Other benefits of coaching involve support & acceptance from someone who understands, and accountability to follow through on certain commitments in life.

We have built the service up with much care & love, alongside the ADHD community, clinicians, and ADHD experts & coaches, but are always open to more specific feedback on how we can improve. Our inbox is always open: hi@shimmer.care

You are right that ADHD is a true neurological disorder that responds well to medication, but on everything else your are horrifyingly wrong. Medication alone is not a panacea for many people with ADHD and is most effective when coupled with better self understanding, self acceptance, and adoption of an ADHD-optimized lifestyle.

I have ADHD, my kids have ADHD, and most of my friends have ADHD. Was on Vyvanse for 5 years, then off for 6, and I just recently started taking it again.

During my first 5 years on Vyvance, I had my first experience of what was truly possible for me and it changed my life.

Then, triggered by unrelated health issues and unhappiness with side effects, but mainly because I wanted to run the experiment of seeing how far I could get without meds, I stopped for 6 years. I focussed on lifestyle, structure, health, exercise, nutrition, meditation, And it was pretty good, much better than before my diagnosis.

Then as my life moved forward it presented me with increasing responsibility and challenge, and this year I decided to go back on meds. Of course it was immediately obvious that meds improve my ability to focus and my general self-regulation to a level not possible through healthy lifestyle and earnest intentions. But… now I am getting a multiplier effect of an ADHD-optimized lifestyle working together with my medication, and its amazing. I'm taking a lower dose than before, but sustaining a better level of productivity and mental health.

I have seen in myself and others where meds on their own have failed because their benefits were squandered by a careless lifestyle. Now I get to see how this plays out with my kids, And guess what? Meds are essential, but they aren't enough. The hard part is changing their attitudes, habits and lifestyle.

Wooooaah. I don't know about this service, but I feel there would be a lot of value in having a person to bounce things off in real time / help with unblocking when things get challenging. Would that also be complete bullshit? Are prescribed stimulants the only thing that's not bullshit?

Even IF - even IF this service is effective for people with ADHD - how does this service deal with the problem of people believing they have ADHD when they actually have another problem which presents similarly?

Literally read their post, it's for if:

>If you have ADHD (or think you do)

Wow that's great and not exploitative at all. A service to treat a medical condition that people merely THINK they have. Don't suppose anybody is going to get a refund if they don't actually have ADHD.

This is what I would've thought not even a year ago.

Having tried pretty much all the stimulants (oh DNMs how I love you) and currently taking one, I almost can't believe I have to say medication alone is not enough.

Exactly my thoughts too. This reads as yet another scam product targeting ADHD folks, just like Inflow and similar.

I would very much like such 'entrepreneurs' to stop trying to profit from my disability. If they had something actually useful to sell, they'd engage with health service providers. Instead they try to fool the individual with promises of success and happiness.

It's disgusting and predatory, and sours me even more towards the VC types that think this is a worthwhile type of business to invest in.

I work with a psych and take the stimulants, and still struggle. Medication is only half the battle. I would recommend checking out Andrew Huberman's podcast episode on ADHD. Basically, as I understand, the medication "smooths out" the pathways that are "blocked" in the dopamine system. Once medicated, I think a treatment plan like this would be very helpful for me and for others.

My friend it is you who should consider being ashamed. Suggesting stimulants as the first line of treatment rather than cardiovascular exercise, good sleep, and a healthier relationship with food is at best dismissive of the body of modern research and at worst introduction of a dangerous 'just pop a pill' crutch. Stimulants are not at all the only way out of the ouroboros of adhd symptoms making today hard and tomorrow too.

I don't disagree that things like this can be exploitative and if it happens even once then I agree with the 'you should be ashamed' thesis statement. You're treating the solution as a very black and white thing in this comment of yours though and the vitriol with which you wrote it left me with the impression that pushback is warranted.

It's not a normie coach. I use this service and my coach has ADHD herself (plus some other traits). I've been using it for 3 weeks and have found it very useful. I think you dismiss the role of metacognition. There are strategies that work for my brain, they're just different to what works for most people. I have found it very useful and have recommended it to other people.

Stimulants don't work for everyone. Or like for me, they stop working after some time.

I am curious, how do you explain the chasm in ADHD diagnosis between the US and Europe (or anywhere else really)? Surely if it's a purely neurological disorder, it should be somewhat "uniformly" detected across the globe, no?

My wife was diagnosed several years ago at our 3rd marriage counselor. We found a physician that 100% believes in a medication based solution, went through 4-5 different medications to find the right one for her, and she's successful with Vyvanse. Mostly.

Vyvance is time release. She takes it in the morning and it wears off by the time she gets home. The behaviors at home that don't work well are still there but her stress level is way down now that she has a good handle on work. Good for her, better but not good for the kids and I.

I wouldn't say she needs anything like counseling because there isn't a problem with perception or emotional dysfunction. A "coach" on the other hand could help her and us quite a bit, if she had someone to talk to about "life". Maybe they could point out she's gone into work for the last 3 weekends and for this upcoming one she can take Saturday completely for herself to decompress, then do something meaningful and fun with her family on Sunday. That would make her feel a lot better and the the kids and I too.

The problem is the person with ADHD being willing to have some measure of accountability. The life coach needs to do that part expertly. In our case, it really does need to be someone else because I can say the same thing as a life coach and in the exact same way, but because I am "the husband" my wife's guilt ramps up and so does negative self talk and some anger. Even when I try to help kindly and thoughtfully she can become defiant or dismissive. Because I'm "the husband". I have tried stepping and helping her have a relax day followed by a family day but its exhausting as I'm the only adult doing it. Its a bit of a trap too because it starts to change our relationship to the dreaded parent/child dynamic. Although I tend to think of it as care giver and care needer. ADHD aside, she needs to own what she does or does not do because she is an intelligent capable adult. But she has to figure out how to do it without me stepping in all the time.

So while medication ought to be the first step for help, it is also probably the right thing to supplement with some kind of coaching, even if it is infrequent or done with a light touch. Ideally self reflection could eliminate the need for coaching but it's not a task that elevates dopamine levels in the executive function of the brain. Meaning, someone with ADHD is probably not drawn to or motivated to do it on their own. It's more likely involving an unbiased 3rd party is actually helpful.

ADHD is not a bad thing and I really don't want to call it a dysfunction. I'm in the neurodivergent camp. When her hyper focus kicks in whatever she is doing is done to the best degree anything like that can be done. There's another member of the family that has ADHD that is also competitive. When we do something together and there is the mere possibility of being competitive, their hyper focus kicks in and I can't keep up with them. In software development, an engineer with ADHD can out think and out code me by a noticeable distance if their hyper focus kicks in. Their problem isn't performing, it's being in control of when they perform and on what tasks. They make great pinch hitters by the way. Want a production issue fixed quickly? Grab the ADHD dev in a group meeting where they share their screen. Me though, I cave. I fold. Too much pressure and I don't mind admitting it. I'm too much of an empath. I just don't see ADHD as a dysfunction because its obvious that its a rebalancing of strengths and weaknesses. They'll get their electricity shut off by forgetting to pay the bill but they'll also decorate the best looking wedding cake when it's late and the decorator calls in sick.

I want to also mention, we have a friend that hasn't been diagnosed but swears he has ADHD. I can see that might be true but he also is an avid runner. The physical and mental exercise of running probably helps him manage well enough that he doesn't need medication. And I think that suggests that ADHD is not a switch where you have it or you don't, more that it is a spectrum. There are probably people that have a low level of ADHD and have figured out life just works better if they do certain things, like drinking coffee regularly and running.

edit: spelled Vyvanse wrong

Your correct. But some of us can’t tolerate the medication.

Totally agree on bullshit detector event alarm.

The closest sister discipline our coaches practice is Health & Wellness coaching, but we also draw on the foundations of positive psychology, CBT, etc. depending on the member's situation. The practices of coaching & therapy, although they have some overlap, are largely different in both practice and outcomes. For example, in the context of ADHD, coaching is very focused on future-oriented outcomes and tactic-oriented skills, whereas therapy is often focused on disentangling thoughts, unpacking trauma, etc. Also, coaching is aimed at taking a person upwards to their goals, and you don't necessarily need a diagnosis of any sort to be here. I may have rambled a bit, but the bottom line is, we don't practice therapy on our platform.

Right now coaching is not covered under most insurance plans, unfortunately. Some members have been able to work with their employer benefits to get Shimmer covered but it's definitely a case by case basis right now. However, we try our best to work with our members (we have a needs-based financial aid package and have something in the works that's a bit bigger than this!) where we can!

From their website: We’re looking for licensed coaches (ICF or NBHWC preferred) or licensed mental health professionals (e.g., PhD, PsyD, LCSW, LMFT, etc.) specializing in ADHD.

Looks like they accept people with coaching licenses (this often means less than 200 hours of training).

My understanding is that coaches are typically qualified to work with people who don't have acute mental health needs. For example a coach might help someone figure out how to eat healthier, but wouldn't be qualified to treat an eating disorder.

I heard of coaching in relation to ADHD over a decade ago, it's not something they invented.

I don't know anything about Shimmer, so I don't know how well they fit the mold, but as I understand ADHD Coaching: The general idea is that the coaches are there to supplement therapy and/or drugs with practical "in the weeds" advice. A Therapist would worry about making you feel better, and might point you in the direction of some resources to learn practical coping skills. A coach is one of the resources to help you learn practical skills.

> However, with insurance I've usually paid $25-40/session out of pocket.

This is what insured people need to keep in mind.

Always look up the actual cost estimation through your insurer's website first. It's not uncommon for health insurance at tech companies to have therapy options that come out to $20-30/session. Worth checking first!

Also, note that the service offered here is explicitly "coaching" and not "therapy" as you'd receive from licensed therapists through your insurance.

Coaching probably does not require part 21 compliance. It's like "this is not intended to treat any disorder..." disclaimers on supplements. FDA compliance is exhausting and very difficult/expensive. They might have gone through it. Don't know.

> As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market.

The issue is that this is likely more expensive for someone with health insurance than it would be to go out and engage with a guaranteed licensed medical professional for ADHD therapy.

They use some vague language on the website (look carefully for the "or" in the qualifications listing) to obscure that fact that you might be working with a "coach" instead of a licensed therapist. They also use some moderately misleading language to avoid saying they offer therapy for ADHD, instead offering things like life skills.

Basically, anyone looking at this should first go to their insurance company's website and check the price of true ADHD therapy from a guaranteed licensed medical professional that you can choose yourself. Over the course of several sessions, the cost of doing this through insurance could be much lower and you're arguably likely to get better treatment (coaches cannot provide therapy by law, so they're kind of coaching around it instead).

>Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil or scams that I’m not familiar with?

With ADHD? Not really, but compared to other disabled people those with ADHD tend to be extremely pro mainstream medicine because they have basically the most effective pharmacological treatments of ANY mental disorder. Stimulants are several times more effective than treatments like SSRIs. So there is a strong bias towards conservatism because well why rock the boat when you have extremely effective treatment options?

Other disabled people tend to have a much more ambivalent or sceptical view of mainstream medicine since trying to treat most mental disorders is akin to trying to stop smoking. It does happen and it's more likely to happen the more times you try, but it's a plodding frustrating business that makes you desire something better. So they're more keen on more, lets call them "speculative" approaches to health.

For me with this specific case, it's them talking up the "science-based" (lol) nature of their program and them directly marketing it to people not diagnosed with ADHD but who suspect they have it. Show me the science showing this is an effective treatment for people who THINK they have ADHD. Thus essentially encouraging people to defer a diagnosis which results in insanely effective treatments to try a program that is experimental at best and is based off methodologies which are far less successful than pharmacological interventions. It smacks of exploitation. I'm not inherently opposed to the fundamental idea they're presenting, I simply don't trust these people AT ALL and think they're dangerous.

Same. As someone well off with inattentive type ADHD, 99$ is money I wouldn't mind throwing away for a shot at getting better with the daily issues I face. And then if it works progressing to something more expensive is also not a problem.

In my case the issue is that despite having a growth mindset for learning pretty much anything, in the case of ADHD stuff I've been trying for so long to fix myself that it feels like I'll never be able to. And that trying out this service and making efforts would be more draining than living with the symptoms is.

I realise that's not true so I could force myself to do it, it's just what I feel.

Going to go talk with an ADHD specialized psychologist this month and will see if a service like this can be extra help perhaps.

Hi! Chris(tal) here (also, I'm a woman.. she/her, haha. I get that a lot using my nickname)

Unfortunately, yes. There are many businesses that take advantage of not only people with ADHD but people in other vulnerable communities (e.g. other neurological conditions and mental illnesses). I've been in this space for a long time since I started with my Eating Disorder amongst other things in my teenage years.

Of course, as most of you have seen, there's a lot of splash currently in the news especially in the ADHD space so I completely understand the skepticism.

Quite honestly it's not easy for me to have my story out vulnerably in the open and linked to our business but for me it's worth it! So I really appreciate your positive feedback, it goes a long way!

Same here. I think there is a natural undercurrent of skepticism on HN, a lot of which is well-deserved.

The ROI of this could be tremendous for someone in tech. If this helps you get your shit together enough to be promoted a cycle early, for example, or find a new job, it could be a bargain.

ADHD runs very strong in my family. My mom never learned to control it and lets it ruin her interactions. Changing topics 2-3 times in a sentience is not uncommon. My career was a mix of major success and failures. Basically depending how routine or novel the problem set was. Took medication at 40 for the first time.

First time in my life I was able to work on something boring where it didn’t feel physically painful to be doing it. Sadly I don’t tolerate the medication well. (Pain) so I do without it.

Alternatives are always very attractive.

I’ve often thought it would be awesome if I could just pay someone minimum wage to sit behind me and tap on my shoulder every time I got off task.

> Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil or scams that I’m not familiar with?

Yes. Well, not really snake-oil, but this spaces is definitely associated with low-effort pill mills and broken marketing promises.

Therapy is hard. Doing it at scale is nearly impossible. Doing it at scale at a price point consumers expect is literally impossible. As a result, you end up with a bunch of "mental health" "tech" companies that are making big promises, but essentially just putting their patients through checkboxes.

Probably going to get downvoted - but I'll hypothesize anyway...

I imagine for the younger folks on HN, we grew up with what seemed like >50% of people claiming to have ADHD, OCD, Tourettes - or some other TikTok-fad "cool" disorder - which obviously not that many people actually have these problems.

At least not too long ago when I was young enough to be in that crowd - ADHD was the king of "cool" disorders. Everyone wanted to have ADHD. If you were "normal" - that was "uncool". It was like - what's wrong with you? Why don't you have some debilitating problem like everyone else?

So like claimed gluten intolerance in the adult population - I think there could be some skepticism to the occurrence and severity of some of these disorders - and to anyone making products for such groups to be a snake-oil salesman trying to capitalize.

But, who cares? Is anyone getting hurt? Let people do what makes them happy.

If you have genuine adhd, you are not going to be the best at money management. You will likely also not hold high paying jobs because of the executive function requirements. They probably need to be 21cfr compliant in order to qualify as a medical device. I only did part 11 and clinical analyzers so I don't know about medical devices such as an app.

How many adults do you think would describe themselves as having some level of ADHD? With all the distractions of today it is a ripe market so when someone offers "treatment" with no diagnosis necessary and no actual medical professionals (I am not sure what an ADHD-coach is) it does ring a few alarm bells.

> I tend to try a bunch of different methodologies to manage my ADHD but have trouble sticking to them

a therapist is going up help talk you through this but the point is you have ADHD so it's no system is going to stick, so what you need to do is reframe it so that it's not that you tried a system and it failed, but to look at the 3 days/weeks/months and celebrate the time that you had with it, and to see that as positive. from there, launch into being able to pick up systems, new or different, doesn't matter, and use them to improve your life within your means. with practice it gets easier and easier and suddenly things aren't in shambles anymore.

Another ADHD founder here. I've found that having someone else around when I need to to that thing, or a "body double" ( https://doubleapp.xyz/blog/body-doubling-proxy ), is a super useful tactic to "unblock" myself and overcome motivational hurdles like the ones you may experience.

I'm sorry that therapy didn't work out for you. It could be therapy being misaligned with your goals, or unfortunately it could also just be a bad fit in therapist-client match. I'm in the same boat though, I struggled to find a therapist who was ADHD-informed and solution-focused under my insurance. However, I did find good therapists in the past for my eating disorder and for some other more mood-related challenges present in my family.

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but it's definitely an "it depends". Statistically, 83% of our members say by 2 months they're seeing improvement in reaching their goals but I must admit for now it's quite a high level metric with a lot to unpack. It'll depend on a few factors including how specific your goals are, how much time/effort you're willing to put into it, your attitude/mindset coming in, the coach/client rapport, to name a few things. For example, you could come in with 1 laser focused goal and achieve in a few weeks, or you could come in with the want to unpack your goals and find a new career trajectory etc., and that would take quite longer.

Most of our members work in 3-month goals. Some of our members are on their 2nd set of 3-month goals. However, of course there are some that found that they couldn't fit coaching into their life in the way they want and didn't continue after the initial 4 weeks. We do ask that all folks commit to trying for 4 weeks and giving it their best shot since as you mentioned, it's important to develop the coach-member relationship, set proper goals, and start to create some action plans!

Another ADHD founder here. I got value from the first session. I've always had massive issues with punctuality (I got fired from a CTO job because I rocked up late to a crucial board meeting among other things) and talking it through with my coach helped me come up with strategies I hadn't thought of (using Alexa/Google Home style devices to give me audible alerts). I was able to implement the strategies immediately and have found the follow up sessions similarly valuable. My punctuality has been heaps better in the last three weeks :)

This is really valuable feedback for us as we've iterated on that form with the ADHD community for a while and actually that exact question you're talking about is one that we've debated and changed a few times. I really appreciate your feedback here, let us revisit our notes on that question again, we'll continue to weigh the pros and cons here...

I personally believe from a UX perspective when you can make things simpler for people with ADHD, you make it simpler for all! Basically the premise of docusign :)

Thank you for your kind words, it goes a long way.

I was also diagnosed as an adult and unraveling the inner world is the hardest part! Then for me, is communication and understanding with people around me that I care most about.

Where are you from? I'd love to see if we can help support you (if you want)! hi@shimmer.care

Maybe an optional plan that costs a little extra but allows for last minute rescheduling within the week. And everyone starts with this feature at no extra cost at the beginning. The company leaves extra slots open for this possibility, treating it like an insurance scheme.

Also last minute rescheduling means last minute scheduling for other people too. They may find that they just offer this to everyone and the costs balance out. It does seem like imposing too many scheduling constraints on a specifically ADHD audience could lead to a lot of friction!

I agree with this. Such policies often have very ableist results for people with dopamine shortage. That may not be the intention, it's often a purely business decision based on economic analysis of the business model, but that is a common result.

The sad part is, it would be entirely possible for ADHD and other ASDs to be accomodated in daily society. But, people without those differences would abuse the absolute piss out of those accomodations. How do we prevent abuse without harming those who legitimately require such accomodations? There's a reason there is such a concept as "ADHD tax".

the right answer, with a pool of VC money, is to have a pool of coaches on tap, so the appointment is NOW. no scheduling stuff in the future to be missed or forgotten. expensive on the back end, but that's what the VC money is for. And also to have it in the middle of the night - so many people I know have their awake hours from 1-3am, meet people with ADHD where they are.

Appreciate you sharing, and resonate a lot...

For me, I wasn't surprised by the diagnosis but taking the pause to finally recognize (and a 3rd party, professional) my ADHD changed things for me.

I resonate with the hard mode. I had the same realization when I got to the right dose/type of medication.

As a coaching psychologist and a senior member of Shimmer team, I am ever so pleased to see you referring to the most validated bio-psychological model of personality traits. You are absolutely right that ADHD folk have a recognisable “signature” on a Big Five model, within the traditional and the modern interpretations of this theoretical perspective.

However, the Big Five model only talks about the most notable personality traits in statistical terms, whereas the lived experience of a person with ADHD is illuminated by the richness, variety and the amplitude of the rest of the personality traits which may be less statistically profound but critically important to a particular person and the way in which they relate to their ADHD.

While I can’t talk about the ADHD coaching overall, the “Shimmer model” is acutely attuned to the lived experience and phenomenology of each member we work with. And we always welcome critical and well-informed enquiries about what informs our approach. Thank you!

I propose we either call it "Focus Control Disorder" or where the context would be appropriate, "dopamine dysfunction". If someone is unable to function and it turns out they had a vitamin D or potassium deficiency, we don't call it "sunlight rejection disorder" or "bananaphobia", ya know? The very name of ADHD is ableist, it defines neurodivergent life in neurotypical terms (in this context, "neurotypical" merely means one has a brain that typically generates the proper amount of dopamine to function in modern society).

This is totally a problem with the manufactured society we have created as humans. I'm absolutely certain that when we lived off this earth more naturally, the traits that have become disadvantages were originally communal strengths. My personal hypothesis is that ADHD is a series of traits that evolved to make wonderful hunters. The ability for the slightest noise/motion to grab our attention, the hyperfocus on things that do grab our attention, the ability to make connections extremely fast in a fractal manner, all of these traits would be a huge advantage when hunting prey to feed your social group or to protect your group from predators.

Agree on the rebranding. Thank you for your positivity & inclusivity!!

Apologize if the "heartbreaking" and "liberating" language felt a bit dramatic (I am a bit dramatic...), but it really did feel that way for me after living my whole life feeling like I was constantly doing everything wrong.

Ever since slowly going deeper and deeper into the ADHD community, the positive spark of the community is undeniably special and since reframing a lot of my views on ADHD & myself, I've been able to lean more heavily on some of my "superpowers" as well.

We actually love the Big 5 personality traits out of all those similar quizzes, backed by good science and I think it's actually the fan fave of our Head ADHD Coaching Psychologist, Xenia!

There's an organization understood.org that is starting/forwarding the movement (neurodiversity as a whole, not just ADHD) exactly as you say! We're excited about some upcoming partnerships with them :)

So, please tell me, where does executive disfunction fall in the "Big Five"? How about time blindness? Emotional disregulation? Persistent short term memory issues?

It is a disorder which has a material impact on a person's ability to live in our society. In more severe cases, the afflicted benefit greatly from medication. No amount of rebranding or projection will change this.

Do you think this article describing a better name for ADHD as Variable Attention Stimulus Trait or VAST [1] addresses the concerns you bring up?

[1] https://www.additudemag.com/attention-deficit-disorder-vast/

Watch Barkley. They can't rebrand it as ADHD is already linked to law like PL 1973 and the Americans with disabilities act, and to get there was hard enough. We need to make people think executive function disorder when they hear the acronym ADHD.

Simplify much, are we?

CBT has to be focused with an understanding that any effort--notebooks, sticky notes, etc--is going to exhaust your already precious executive function.

Inflow, to my understanding, is a primarily education-based app with community & coaching components. I use Inflow myself, and find their education extremely valuable and easy to digest.

Our service (Shimmer) is focused on the coaching relationship itself. So you get matched with a 1:1 coach and meet every week over video/audio to develop that relationship and work on specific focuses. We do have a smaller element of education in it but it's only deployed in the context of your coaching journey (e.g. your coach may send you a resource related to the task you're working on for the week).

For each person, something different will resonate. For some people, multiple things will resonate! We have members who use or have used Inflow as well.

Thanks for the kind words on our site!

We're definitely aligned / agree that it's really hard to get affordable care. Unfortunately, we've found that our members have tried (but haven't succeeded) in finding a good therapist who is ADHD-informed and can do the specific things they are looking for in regards to coaching. Additionally, we definitely acknowledge that we provide a completely different service than psychologists / psychiatrists, and we work hand in hand with them post diagnosis. We do not offer diagnostics or pharmaceuticals and rely on other medical professionals externally to do so.

Also agree on not using gamification to worsen symptoms. That's something we consider very deeply with our clinical team to ensure we don't exacerbate our relationships to our phone. I'm personally a client on our platform and have that in mind constantly!

Thank you so much for the good luck!

Thank you for your comment which clearly stems from your experience of working with the ADHD folk. We are fully aligned on being cautious about the negative behavioural implications of digital tools which includes gaming.

As a coaching psychologist and senior member of Shimmer team, I concur with the prevalent view that the way to improve the quality of life of someone with ADHD is through integrative approach comprising each of the helping strands: the clinical, psychotherapy and coaching.

In this “holy trinity”, the niche filled by coaching reflects on the state of affairs which demonstrate that while humans are fairly capable of navigating their past experiences and manage the “present immediate”, we are not so successful at thinking about, and getting the best out of the future. This gave rise to the areas of psychological sciences which are focused on goal setting, planning, self-motivating and developing through the entire life-course. These pretty much inform our trademark Shimmer approach to coaching psychology and what happens during the coaching sessions, therefore.

Thank you so much for the good luck wishes. These are especially valuable since our aspiration is to evolve efficacy and the evidence-base of ADHD coaching, and to help ADHD folk have an active role in moving towards a better quality of life.

> I like the site but it seems overpriced - a good therapist is cheaper and can do the same thing.

These ADHD coaching services come up a lot, and this is the general advice I give out:

Always start with your insurance options first. Many people are surprised to learn that they can get therapy (for ADHD or otherwise) for as little as $10-20 per session through their normal health insurance. Telehealth has been normalized, too, so it's likely you can do it from home.

Always check insurance first to evaluate costs. Consider how deductibles play out through the course of the year, too. This coaching service is a lot to pay out of pocket relative to what many people in tech would expect to pay with insurance involved.

Where are you getting therapy cheaper!? most therapists I've found around me are $xxx/hr and don't take insurance.

> Person with severe adhd and disposable income here: Nope. This is too much. Especially if you're not offering psychiatric services (e.g., no meds).

Thanks for pointing this out, we know it's still not in reach for most people. We're trying our best to get it as low as possible and are working on alternate routes, especially for those with the financial need. Right now we have our financial aid application, and we're working on something a bit bigger that will disproportionately impact communities of need

> I can appreciate celebrating october being adhd awareness month in november.

Haha, yes, we're a few days late. The month we're observing is Oct12-Nov12

> I also want to call out that there's no regulation around adhd coaching. More or less anyone can do it with out qualifications. You'll notice that there's no mention of insurance being accepted. I say this because it's a ripe area for taking advantage of people. In the absence of regulation, extra scrutiny is warranted.

Agree on extra scrutiny. The area of ADHD coaching has been unregulated and quality is definitely variable (really great coaches costing $2,000+/mo. and other new coaches marketing their services without much training etc). I have a separate comment down / up there somewhere on insurance. We're standing on the shoulder of giants by putting together psychoeducation that is science-backed and pooling resources & knowledge to help guide with what has worked for ADHD brains. We're working towards some loftier goals right now as well including an Academy-like offering...

> That's a sneaky 'or' there -- What're the statistics around the coaches qualifications?

Our coaches fall in 1 of 2 categories: (1) Coaching or MH professional credentials (ICF, Therapists, Psychiatrists) or (2) Masters-level or equivalent of psychology- or ADHD- related field along with extensive hours of client-facing facilitation & coaching work. 100% of our coaches fall into 1 of the above 2 categories.

> No linkage to their qualifications

Dr. Anil Chacko: https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/people/anil-chacko

Xenia Angevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xenia-angevin/ Dr. Amin Azzam: https://meded.ucsf.edu/people/amin-azzam

> Person with severe adhd and disposable income here: Nope. This is too much

Even for people with disposable income, a rate like this should trigger some cursory research on your insurance provider's website. Common tech company insurance plans might very likely come out much cheaper than this when multiple sessions are considered across a year and deductibles are taken into account.

And you get to choose your provider and know their qualifications as a mental health professional. Telehealth is commonly available, too.

Don't let the high price of any of these cash-only services discourage anyone from seeking therapy. If you have insurance, always check that first and do the math.

Just fixed the issue! You should be able to sign in with apple id now, sorry about the trouble there.

Thank you for sharing your experience. And kudos to all the work you've done.

I definitely agree that our bite-sized coaching is not meant for everyone, nor is it meant for every situation. I am always happy to jump on the phone with any potential Shimmer member to discuss their unique situation and am always honest about if we think we can help or not.

Oftentimes the outcome of this call is simply support from another peer with ADHD (me) and perhaps a soft referral to a service or medical professional we know.

Unfortunately we don't perform diagnoses at this point. We do have some great partners that we refer out to for diagnoses, or we can help support folks through that process.

What we mean by that is we coach people who don't necessarily have a diagnosis. We welcome anyone who wants to come and be coached on ADHD-related skills & goals. For example, if you want to work on your executive function but you don't have an ADHD diagnosis, you're completely welcome here!

This is also because certain cultures (or an array of different circumstances could put someone in this position) prevent folks from getting a timely diagnosis and/or they don't want to tell their parents, etc. But in this case they can still get coaching with less of the stigma. This is a broader challenge/problem in society though that we're barely scratching the surface on.

As a female, queer, BIPOC/AAPI person who grew up in a certain "bubble", I've definitely faced head on how hard it can be to take the first step to diagnosis.

Like you I was suprised by the amount of negative reception but I can sympathize with most of these people. The company failed at properly communicating their vision and USP regarding the experiences, hopes and fears of their target audience and animated checkbox diversity pictures on the website don't cut it.

I can't (and honestly don't want to) calculate the amount of late fees and forgotten continuing subscriptions I had to pay for over my lifetime. The advertised service seems comparatively expensive and not exactly scalable without the company cutting corners (3rd world call centers) or raising prices soon.

As the founder of iFocus Health you should take notes what went wrong here.

It does not because there is no coaching that fixes ADHD. It's almost like they are offering coaching for cancer. Just not going to work and taking advantage of vulnerable.

I cant believe you didnt even answer my question, a person who has already spent thousands on this problem personally and youre announcing a fucking launch IM YOURE FUCKING CUSTOMER

To OP and the rest of the folks in this thread: firstly, thanks for opening this convo. It's quite complicated in that each person who is neurodiverse (ADHD or other condition) is wholly different from the next, in symptoms / personality / severity / how much it impacts your life, the list goes on.

Along that vein, there is a level of acceptance (at least for me) that I will always be different. The decision of what I want to change (just like any neurotypical person decides to embark on a 'personal growth' journey) is also each individuals to take. Of course, the flip side here is that the societal pressure etc., obviously makes it not that simple (holding down jobs, etc.).

Another distinction for those new to ADHD is that by definition, your life needs to be significantly impacted (at home, school/work, etc.) in multiple domains for a diagnosis.

In terms of medication, right now for ADHD it's the most scientifically proven way (70-80% of people with ADHD see benefits) to manage ADHD symptoms but can also have some side effects. Because of this and many other reasons, some folks prefer to engage in behavioral change solutions not necessarily to 'fix' themselves only, but potentially just to reach certain goals they have. This may be used together with medication/therapy or on its own.

> It's also ok to be yourself, and not try to 'fix' yourself.

Society is very clear that it is not okay with this. If I'm "just myself" then I wouldn't be able to hold down a job and survive.

> Medicate always as a last resort

We shouldn't be so hesitant to medicate. It can be extremely useful, especially in combination with other management techniques. This stigma against medication hurts people.

Alternatively, don't define who you are by your mental illnesses. People are not built equally, and some things can be considered objectively broken.

Shit at some aspects of life that are easily treatable? Treat them.

ADHD remains one of the most easily medically treatable diseases. Do not listen to people propagating the stigma that you should just accept a substandard life. For most people with ADHD, medical treatment works very well and massively improves quality of life. Medical treatment does not have to be a last resort.

Clearly you are not aware how debilitating ADHD can be at times, even with proper and continuous care/treatment.

This is a hereditary neurodevelopmental disorder, not just a feeling anyone can pick up tomorrow and be cured of again in a couple of weeks if they just put in the work and keep smiling.

No. Medicate when you think it will help you at a cost-benefit trade off you’re happy with. Same with a coaching service like this, or regular therapy, or other treatment. You aren’t going to stay the same person throughout life, no matter what.

Thank you so much for signing up and really looking forward to your feedback about your experience on our platform! What Android device are you using for our app?

We'll definitely investigate on our backend and see if we can reproduce the stuttering on our Android test devices as well. You can always email support@shimmer.care or message the Shimmer admin account directly within the app and we'll make sure to log your bug and prioritize it with the team after investigating!

Feedback taken! It's not a regulatory requirement but helps us understand what challenges folks are coming in with. We've been pouring over this part of the intake with members & the ADHD community and now have received a couple more points of feedback that we take very seriously!

We'll be updating the flow today.

You do get that "finding the techniques that work for you" is like the whole value of the coach, right? You're standing at the end, and I'm assuming you've put in a lot of work to get where you are because the kinds of resources that would helped you weren't available.

There is such a gap of "people who have ADHD sharing the things that actually worked for them." One of the best strategies for me "task bracelets" I didn't get from my therapist but a random TikTok.

I don't really know if this service is the one to pull it off but I want something like it to exist.

Wow, thank you for sharing these super specific systems you have put in place that work for you! With your permission, I'd love to share these tools and tips with our coaches, in case they haven't seen them before (they are new to me!) and may be relevant to their members.

I'm excited that you have found your exact mix, and our mission is exactly to help other folks just like us found their unique mix of tools & systems that work for their life. With their commitment to experimenting, the abundance of resources like the ones you've shared, and our coaches' guidance, we hope to get our members to their version of where you're at! Ideally with free stuff too!

The goal of coaching is most definitely not to be a crutch that you have to use forever. Ideally they can get to a point similar to yours with the aid of their coach! Oftentimes, the sifting through info, experimenting, and staying motivated part is the hard part (that we hope to be able to help with!)

This sounds super useful, I'll give it a try. I definitely agree with reducing friction helping extensively, I only get so many attention points during the day.

congrats on finding something that works for you!

I second this! If you have or suspect you have ADHD, a licensed medical professional is your first line of defense. Even if you don't choose treatment, the clarity could be helpful (it was for me!). But I also understand for various reasons some choose not to get diagnosed and there's a lot of work we need to do on the societal level to reduce the stigma, especially poignant in certain cultural communities (like my own...).

It’s entirely possibly to have ADHD and opt out of medication. If it’s appropriate or not is very individual though, probably not something we can settle on a message board.

We use a contractor model (we aren't a marketplace, at least as of now) so close to 100% goes to coach contracting costs right now.

Over time we're working on some other efficiency features and in-app capabilities to support our profitability.

We can definitely vouch for the quality of our coaches though, and a few of them definitely take a pay cut vs. their other contracting jobs because of their personal missions to offer more accessible / affordable solutions to ADHD folks. We're tirelessly working toward our 3 pillars of increasing member value, decreasing cost to member, and increasing payments to coaches per hour.

Thank you for the q!

Most of our coaches do. This lived experience is really important so that they understand the members (and also model good behavior / give hope to the member) and also can self disclose. The world of ADHD coaching is very fascinating and inspirational for me because ADHD coaches are so niche, that most of them either have ADHD or have a partner/child/parent with ADHD and that's generally the reason they were propelled into the space. I'm really lucky to work with an almost exclusively ADHD team, but of course, also we work through certain challenges together too.

It's almost as if a website that's constantly updating you on the full breadth of technology in our world is some form of magnet for people with ADHD :D

That I've found!!!

A venn diagram for sure. The 2 together can definitely exacerbate the situation.

I was saving this one to answer, because it's really personal for me!

For each person it'll be different. But in short, these are the stories you tell yourself, about yourself.

For example: when I was a kid I was always put in this "special" desk that faced the back wall, or the other "special" desk that was pushed up against the blackboard next to the teacher. I was always "other"'d and kept away from others. I started growing this idea that I was just a "bad kid", that I needed to be removed or separated from others. That nobody wanted to hear what I had to say. That I was a "bad apple". This really demotivated to try at all in school, and the only place I felt confident was in Physical Education class where I was allowed to be loud and move around without being yelled at. Over time, as I learned about ADHD, I wasn't a bad kid... and that sports wasn't even really my thing (lol). With this new "fact", I was able to separate some of my behaviors and tendancies from me as a person.

That was just 1 little example. I have tons... but I hope that made a little bit of sense!

Hmm so when you logged in you couldn't move past the splash screen the first time? I can take a look at our backend to see what the issue may be, but if you'd like we can communicate via our support email at support@shimmer.care to help get this issue resolved sooner

lol :(

I feel you

However... we definitely try to be more than that! Here are some of the #1 benefits our members have cited: - Someone who understands - A safe space to talk about ADHD stuff - Guidance - Discovery of new tools & systems and someone to think of them for/with me - Accountability to do the things I said I'd do - A way to verbalize what I intend to do so they can better get done

Thank you!!

hi :)